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Letter in Auto Express

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UK and Europe
Published
20 May 2004
Last activity
24 May 2004
Original author
Mark Tranchant
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14
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  1. In this week's Auto Express, P Jenkins asks who is responsible if a
    motorist hits a cyclist whilst that cyclist is in an "on-road" cycle
    lane; that is, does the presence of a cycle lane obviate the requirement
    for the driver to keep a reasonable distance? Is the motorist
    responsible, or is it the council's fault for providing inadequate cycle
    lanes?

    I've already written to make the comparison with pedestrians on
    pavements, and pointed out my objections to the implementation of most
    on-road cycle paths.

    You may choose to do likewise. editorial at autoexpress dot co dot uk.

    --
    Mark.

  2. Mark Tranchant said:

    In this week's Auto Express, P Jenkins asks who is responsible if a
    motorist hits a cyclist whilst that cyclist is in an "on-road" cycle
    lane

    As if I could resist!

    The obvious answer to P Jenkins' query re cycle lanes (of course the driver
    is at fault!) masks an interesting question: for whose benefit are cycle
    lanes constructed? There is a substantial body of evidence showing that
    cycle lanes are less safe on average than riding in the main flow of
    traffic, and many on-road lanes are not only significantly narrower than the
    recommended minimum width, they may be narrower than a bike. Remember, too,
    that a bike needs to weave in order to stay upright (which is why the
    Highway Code advises giving cyclists plenty of room, and even offers a
    pretty picture of How It Should Be Done).

    The Stationery Office publishes a book called Cyclecraft (ISBN 0 11 702051
    6) which is the nearest thing we have to an official manual on cycling. The
    advice is clear: a cyclist needs to choose a road position which ensures
    their safety, and this usually translates to roughly the left-hand
    wheeltrack of motor traffic (although it may well be much further out at
    hazards such as width restrictions).

    The reasons for this advice are clear and obvious: it places the cycle in a
    position where it is likely to be seen by drivers scanning for traffic; and
    it gently reminds following drivers that the cyclist is not a theoretical
    construct of zero thickness and infinite rigidity, but a vehicle, which
    should be overtaken properly or not at all.

    Both of these benefits are subverted by many on-road cycle lanes, and almost
    all shared-use facilities.

    Happily there is now a programme run by the CTC, Britain's largest cycling
    organisation, which seeks to spread best practice in cycle provision.
    Ironically, cycle-friendly changes are often substantially cheaper and
    easier to introduce than poorly designed "farcilities" which introduce
    precisely the kinds of conflict which Mr Jenkins noted.

  3. "Mark Tranchant" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In this week's Auto Express, P Jenkins asks who is responsible if a
    motorist hits a cyclist whilst that cyclist is in an "on-road" cycle
    lane; that is, does the presence of a cycle lane obviate the requirement
    for the driver to keep a reasonable distance?

    It's hard to believe people so stupid are allowed to be in charge of any
    road going vehicle!

    He may as well ask who's responsible if a motorist hits a kerbside skip in
    good visibility.
    Imagine trying to explain to your insurance company you drove into the skip
    because it wasn't a motor vehicle but was on the road anyway.
    Of course we know that Jenkins wouldn't drive into a skip because it would
    damage his car and maybe even hurt him....hmm....on second thought maybe
    someone that thick would drive into anything he/she/it thought had no right
    to be where it is ;-)
    --
    Regards,
    Pete

  4. On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:34:36 +0100, Mark Tranchant
    <[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

    Quoted message said:

    In this week's Auto Express, P Jenkins asks who is responsible if a
    motorist hits a cyclist whilst that cyclist is in an "on-road" cycle
    lane;

    "Who is responsible if a motorist hits a parked car whilst that parked
    car is 'on-road' when parked?"

    The crassness guilt-avoidance of this question beggars belief.

    Quoted message said:

    that is, does the presence of a cycle lane obviate the requirement
    for the driver to keep a reasonable distance? Is the motorist
    responsible, or is it the council's fault for providing inadequate cycle
    lanes?

    I've already written to make the comparison with pedestrians on
    pavements, and pointed out my objections to the implementation of most
    on-road cycle paths.

    You may choose to do likewise. editorial at autoexpress dot co dot uk.

    --
    Cheers,
    Euan
    Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
    Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
    Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

  5. On Thu, 20 May 2004 16:39:13 +0000 (UTC), "Peter B"
    <[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

    Quoted message said:


    "Mark Tranchant" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In this week's Auto Express, P Jenkins asks who is responsible if a
    motorist hits a cyclist whilst that cyclist is in an "on-road" cycle
    lane; that is, does the presence of a cycle lane obviate the requirement
    for the driver to keep a reasonable distance?

    It's hard to believe people so stupid are allowed to be in charge of any
    road going vehicle!

    He may as well ask who's responsible if a motorist hits a kerbside skip in
    good visibility.
    Imagine trying to explain to your insurance company you drove into the skip
    because it wasn't a motor vehicle but was on the road anyway.
    Of course we know that Jenkins wouldn't drive into a skip because it would
    damage his car and maybe even hurt him....hmm....

    Quoted message said:

    on second thought maybe
    someone that thick would drive into anything he/she/it thought had no right
    to be where it is ;-)

    There are people who feel this way, and who do act on it.

    When I was on the advanced and defensive driving course run by the
    Corporation of London, we were told of lots of genuine incidents of
    the recent past.

    Including one driver (in a fast Escort) who, when confronted with some
    pedestrians crossing ahead (at a red man) speeded up so that he was
    able to hit them before they finished crossing to show them that they
    "shouldn't have been there". He did hit them, ambulances called,
    police statements taken etc.,

    --
    Cheers,
    Euan
    Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
    Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
    Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

  6. Mark Tranchant said:

    In this week's Auto Express, P Jenkins asks who is responsible if a
    motorist hits a cyclist whilst that cyclist is in an "on-road" cycle
    lane; that is, does the presence of a cycle lane obviate the requirement
    for the driver to keep a reasonable distance? Is the motorist
    responsible, or is it the council's fault for providing inadequate cycle
    lanes?

    My first reaction to this is neither shock nor horror, but simply
    confusion. If the cyclist is hit whilst in the cycle-lane, then clearly
    the driver must have been encroaching into the cycle lane. Whether or no
    the cycle lane was mandatory I would have thought even the dimmest or
    most self-righteous of drivers would have realised it was bad practice to
    drive into it and knock someone down from behind (which seems? to be the
    relevant scenario) - so perhaps P Jenkins was thinking of something
    different. There could be at least a little merit in the question "is
    it OK to pass someone closer than you otherwise would, if there is a clear
    dividing line that shows where each party should be" - for example.

    Could you post a link to the original letter?

    It sounds as if P Jenkins is thinking (in some fashion) about cyclist-car
    interaction and has some awareness of the problems many cycle-lanes have.
    Advanced stuff for many people on the roads.

    AC

    Quoted message said:


    I've already written to make the comparison with pedestrians on
    pavements, and pointed out my objections to the implementation of most
    on-road cycle paths.

    You may choose to do likewise. editorial at autoexpress dot co dot uk.

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Gawnsoft said:
    Quoted message said:

    In this week's Auto Express, P Jenkins asks who is responsible if a
    motorist hits a cyclist whilst that cyclist is in an "on-road" cycle
    lane;

    "Who is responsible if a motorist hits a parked car whilst that parked
    car is 'on-road' when parked?"

    The crassness guilt-avoidance of this question beggars belief.

    Erm, I think you've missed his point. His comment looks to me like
    a very valid one about many so-called cycle lanes.

    --
    Nick Kew

    Nick's manifesto: http://www.htmlhelp.com/~nick/

  8. anonymous coward <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:

    My first reaction to this is neither shock nor horror, but simply
    confusion. If the cyclist is hit whilst in the cycle-lane, then clearly
    the driver must have been encroaching into the cycle lane.

    He might not have encroached the cycle lane. Cyclists are wider than
    their wheelbase. The motorist would, of course, have passed *far* too
    close to the cyclist, whatever silly paint stripes were on the road.

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
    Edgware.

  9. "Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Gawnsoft said:
    Quoted message said:

    In this week's Auto Express, P Jenkins asks who is responsible if a
    motorist hits a cyclist whilst that cyclist is in an "on-road" cycle
    lane;

    "Who is responsible if a motorist hits a parked car whilst that parked
    car is 'on-road' when parked?"

    The crassness guilt-avoidance of this question beggars belief.

    Erm, I think you've missed his point. His comment looks to me like
    a very valid one about many so-called cycle lanes.

    Sorry I'm not with you. If I'm driving and can see something encroaching
    into the marked lane I'm using I try not to collide with it regardless of
    any other factors.
    If I can see it but still collide with it I think I'd feel a prat.
    --
    Regards,
    Pete

  10. Peter B said:

    Sorry I'm not with you. If I'm driving and can see something encroaching
    into the marked lane I'm using I try not to collide with it regardless of
    any other factors.
    If I can see it but still collide with it I think I'd feel a prat.

    ....and we all know how rare prats are on the roads. ;-)

    --
    m.

  11. Helen Deborah Vecht <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    anonymous coward <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:

    My first reaction to this is neither shock nor horror, but simply
    confusion. If the cyclist is hit whilst in the cycle-lane, then clearly
    the driver must have been encroaching into the cycle lane.

    He might not have encroached the cycle lane. Cyclists are wider than
    their wheelbase.

    ITYM "than their track".

    Quoted message said:

    The motorist would, of course, have passed *far* too
    close to the cyclist, whatever silly paint stripes were on the road.

    This of course is one of the many problems with cycle lanes. Many
    motorists think they can get as close as they like to the cyclist as
    long as they don't actually cross the line. I'm often more aware of
    cars passing uncomfortably closely when I'm in a cycle lane. The one
    type of collision that cycle lanes are supposed to protect us from -
    being hit from behind - is made more likely, not less, as indeed are
    many other types.

    --
    Dave...

    Dangerous places, cycle lanes.

  12. Dave Kahn said:

    Helen Deborah Vecht <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    anonymous coward <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:

    My first reaction to this is neither shock nor horror, but simply
    confusion. If the cyclist is hit whilst in the cycle-lane, then clearly
    the driver must have been encroaching into the cycle lane.

    He might not have encroached the cycle lane. Cyclists are wider than
    their wheelbase.

    ITYM "than their track".

    Not always, I'm nearly wider than my wheelbase!

    --
    Trevor Barton

  13. On 24 May 2004 07:45:56 -0700 someone who may be
    [email hidden] (Dave Kahn) wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    Many
    motorists think they can get as close as they like to the cyclist as
    long as they don't actually cross the line. I'm often more aware of
    cars passing uncomfortably closely when I'm in a cycle lane.

    You have cycle lanes wider than your handlebars?

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
    I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
    prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

  14. David Hansen said:

    You have cycle lanes wider than your handlebars?

    There is one near me that's about 30 yards long and a glorious eight-ish
    feet wide at one end, tapering down to the usual two-foot gap. Red
    tarmac, solid white line, swept by the council sweeper (aside from the
    gap, but we can't all be perfect).

    It leads right up to a cyclist dismount sign, and is often used as a car
    park by visitors to the small business beside it.

    As an aside, here in sunny Sheffield I saw a driver today who didn't
    wish to park down a side street and walk 20 yards to his shop, or
    double-park on the tram tracks, so preferred instead to completely mount
    the pavement (over one of those hefty kerbs that discourage this sort of
    thing), manouvre between several signposts, and park across the front of
    the shop...

    ....and then put on his hazard lights.

    R.

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