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LED Torches

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
16 January 2004
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16 January 2004
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Mike Lives
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  1. David Laight said:

    So what is it that produces the 2' wide bright spot at 10' then?

    Something that mine doesn't really seem to do to the same extent as yours, I imagine!

    Quoted message said:

    So you do get light for longer, and the batteries are flatter when you throw them out, but for a
    lot of the time the amount of light is a lot, lot less than when the battieries are new [1].

    This isn't really relevant as long as you've got *enough* light to do what you need. And I find I
    generally do, so I think a case of empirical testing in the field being rather more useful than the
    theory and graphs. Bottom line: IME LEDs give me a greater duration of *useful* light than
    filaments, halogen or otherwise, if I don't need a long-throw beam.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
    dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  2. David Laight said:
    Quoted message said:

    This is incorrect. *White* leds are actually blue leds covered with a phosphor - the end result
    being (slightly bluish) white light.

    That is why I said 'white' not white.


    It was your statement about leds being no more efficient than halogen lights that was incorrect.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The significant thing about leds [1] is that they give out very little
    heat and are very much *more* efficient than any filament bulb, which gives out more energy as
    heat than light.

    see: caving.org.ukeff.html


    This is using a new term called efficacy!? Whatever the conclusions of that site, it is generally
    accepted that incandescent lights produce more energy as heat than light, unlike leds, which is why
    other posters here like the long battery life typical of led torches. You will be hard pressed to
    find evidence contrary to this, which is borne out by the experience of anyone who has ever owned an
    led torch!

    Here's the first site I turned up comparing halogen to led:
    otherpower.comotherpower lighting.html

    "Incandescent lights are basically electric space heaters that give off light as a byproduct. They
    are VERY inefficient, wasting most of the power they consume as heat."

    "Another thing to keep in mind--notice that with current commercial lighting products, the smaller
    the incandescent bulb, the less efficient it is. For small-sized and lower-light-intensity
    applications such as task and reading lights, pathway lighting, exit signs, and flashlights, LED
    lights will be much more efficient than the equivalent small incandescent."

  3. Following up to Peter Clinch

    Quoted message said:

    Bottom line: IME LEDs give me a greater duration of *useful* light than filaments, halogen or
    otherwise, if I don't need a long-throw beam.

    so are you saying LED lights are no use for alpine start kind of stuff?
    --
    Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso UK walking & photos
    "fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site Spain,cuisines and walking "fell-fell-
    walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

  4. Quoted message said:

    Here's the first site I turned up comparing halogen to led:
    otherpower.comotherpower lighting.html

    "Incandescent lights are basically electric space heaters that give off light as a byproduct. They
    are VERY inefficient, wasting most of the power they consume as heat."

    "Another thing to keep in mind--notice that with current commercial lighting products, the smaller
    the incandescent bulb, the less efficient it is. For small-sized and lower-light-intensity
    applications such as task and reading lights, pathway lighting, exit signs, and flashlights, LED
    lights will be much more efficient than the equivalent small incandescent."

    That site also says:
    - white LED--15-19 lumens/watt
    - standard 100 watt incandescent--17 lumens/watt

    My LED headtorch pulls about 120mA [1] and is nothing like as bright as the incandesent one
    that pulls 220mA. Putting the Halogen bulb in the doubles the current to 500mA [2] but it is
    much brighter - however the 3 x C alkalines it takes only last about 7 hours before the light
    gets very red.

    If you are trying to find a stile hidden in the hedge on the far side of a field at 2am with a light
    mist then you need the halogen.

    David

    [1] 120mA with 3 new AAA batteries (4.7V off load, 4.5V on) with a set that have been used for one
    overnight walk (say 10 hours use) that drops to 50mA (4v off load, 3.8v on) and the light output
    is a lot less.

    [2] new cells.

  5. Reid said:

    so are you saying LED lights are no use for alpine start kind of stuff?

    Errrr, no. You'll have to enlighten me as to how you inferred that, I'm afraid!

    If you need a long throw beam then with current technology a focused halogen is better than any sort
    of LED, assuming equal and appropriate levels of ooomph available for power. An Alpine start means
    walking through the pre-dawn, and whether you need a long throw beam to do that depends on the
    terrain and the amount of ambient light anyway, which will itself depend on cloud cover, tree cover,
    local geography, the phase of the moon and the time of year as well as time until sunrise. Quite
    often you can walk in the dark without any sort of torch at all, if all you're travelling on is a
    fairly well defined and pale coloured track.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
    dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  6. David Laight <[email hidden]> wrote: <snipped>

    Quoted message said:

    That site also says:
    - white LED--15-19 lumens/watt
    - standard 100 watt incandescent--17 lumens/watt


    Doesn't that bear out my point? 100 watt is the kind of light most of us use to light up the rooms
    we live in.

    Quoted message said:

    If you are trying to find a stile hidden in the hedge on the far side of a field at 2am with a
    light mist then you need the halogen.


    Agreed.

  7. Following up to Peter Clinch

    Quoted message said:

    Errrr, no. You'll have to enlighten me as to how you inferred that, I'm afraid!

    Your comment re long throw beam, or did you mean *very* long throw?

    Quoted message said:

    If you need a long throw beam then with current technology a focused halogen is better than any
    sort of LED, assuming equal and appropriate levels of ooomph available for power.

    What I'm trying to say is are they OK for walking on hills at night? (why didn't I say that in the
    first place?)
    --
    Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso UK walking & photos
    "fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site Spain,cuisines and walking "fell-fell-
    walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

  8. Reid said:

    What I'm trying to say is are they OK for walking on hills at night? (why didn't I say that in the
    first place?)


    If you want one to pick out features hundreds of metres away, then probably no. If you want to see
    where you are walking, then yes.

    One important point - if you use an incandescent torch it is wise to carry a replacement bulb, and
    know how to change it in the dark. You may also need supplementary batteries. Leds effectively do
    not wear out, nor break if you drop them. Nor will you generally need spare batteries!

  9. Reid said:

    What I'm trying to say is are they OK for walking on hills at night? (why didn't I say that in the
    first place?)

    You *know* I'm going to say this, but "it depends"...

    Specifically, it depends on how much micro-navigation and short term route finding you have to do,
    so if you need to know where this rock face in the Cuillin goes before you start scrambling up it,
    then I'd prefer a halogen, but for walking along a typical track on a typical UK hill (whatever that
    is...) a LED torch should be fine.

    Though you can always get the best of both worlds (for a price and a small weight penalty) by buying
    a combo which allows you both. I take my Tikka as a standby if I'm not expecting I will be very
    likely to need it for getting about, or the Duo if I expect I will.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
    dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  10. Reid said:
    Quoted message said:

    If you need a long throw beam then with current technology a focused halogen is better than any
    sort of LED, assuming equal and appropriate levels of ooomph available for power.

    Quoted message said:

    What I'm trying to say is are they OK for walking on hills at night? (why didn't I say that in the
    first place?)

    Depends how fussy you are, and how good your night vision is. A few years ago wife and I had to
    catch a very early lift, which meant walking a few miles through crags, bogs, and streams in total
    midwinter not-even-stars darkness, and all I had was an AA Maglite. This became problematic when we
    had to walk single file, as we often did, so I tried giving wife the Maglite and using a green LED
    keychain press-for-light thing I happened to have. To my surprise, once I'd got used to it, which
    meant improving my dark adaptation and keeping my eyes away from the Maglite beam, I was able to see
    as well as with the Maglite, because although it wasn't as bright in the bright bits, it was much
    more evenly spread, and was good enough to plan the next several steps in awkward bits.

    A modern white LED torch of almost any kind is hugely more powerful than that.

    So I would say they're quite definitely more than adequate for night walking in hills, which I've
    confirmed for myself by using a Petzl Tikka head torch and never feeling the need for the much more
    pwoerful torch in my pocket, except to satisfy curiosity about something "out there".

    But then I don't think you need full beam car headlights for driving in the city either :-)

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    ["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

  11. Hi.

    Ordered some leds on Saturday from ultraleds.co.ukultraleds.co.uk and received them this morning
    (Monday). Excellent service and a nice site. Just ordered one of their head torches. I endorse a
    previous poster's recommendation for this supplier!

    Regards: Jim Ford

  12. Jim Ford said:

    Just ordered one of their head torches. I endorse a previous poster's recommendation for this
    supplier!


    Despite having many fine led torches, I also ordered one of their 8 led head torches. Well, you
    can't have too many. ;-

  13. Following up to Peter Clinch

    Quoted message said:

    You *know* I'm going to say this, but "it depends"...

    My Tikka Plus has arrived, it looks a lot cooler than my 20 year old (?) model. Got the batteries in
    and the light looks pretty good for my modest purposes, I can see to walk down the garden, hopefully
    it will just as good when it gets dark.

    Only worry is it doesnt look hugely waterproof?
    --
    Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso Wasdale, Thames path, London, landscapes
    "fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site Spain,cuisines and walking "fell-fell-
    walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

  14. Following up to Peter Clinch

    Quoted message said:

    As long as you're not going swimming in it it ought to be okay. The mouldings will be waterproof
    and the seals should keep out unpressurised water from the electronics.

    Excellent. (I wont go for a "walk in the Lakes" though) :-)
    --
    Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso Wasdale, Thames path, London, landscapes
    "fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site Spain,cuisines and walking "fell-fell-
    walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

  15. In article <[email hidden]>, Chris Malcolm

    url=''URL:/url said:
    Reid said:
    Quoted message said:

    If you need a long throw beam then with current technology a focused halogen is better than any
    sort of LED, assuming equal and appropriate levels of ooomph available for power.

    Quoted message said:

    What I'm trying to say is are they OK for walking on hills at night? (why didn't I say that in
    the first place?)

    Depends how fussy you are, and how good your night vision is. A few years ago wife and I had to
    catch a very early lift, which meant walking a few miles through crags, bogs, and streams in
    total midwinter not-even-stars darkness, and all I had was an AA Maglite. This became problematic
    when we had to walk single file, as we often did, so I tried giving wife the Maglite and using a
    green LED keychain press-for-light thing I happened to have. To my surprise, once I'd got used to
    it, which meant improving my dark adaptation and keeping my eyes away from the Maglite beam, I
    was able to see as well as with the Maglite, because although it wasn't as bright in the bright
    bits, it was much more evenly spread, and was good enough to plan the next several steps in
    awkward bits.

    A modern white LED torch of almost any kind is hugely more powerful than that.

    So I would say they're quite definitely more than adequate for night walking in hills, which I've
    confirmed for myself by using a Petzl Tikka head torch and never feeling the need for the much
    more pwoerful torch in my pocket, except to satisfy curiosity about something "out there".

    But then I don't think you need full beam car headlights for driving in the city either :-)

    In a similar vein I tend to use a Petzl Tikka for most of my ski-touring now because it is light-
    weight and perfectly adequate for wandering around huts at night, or sorting out equipment, or
    following on a well defined trail, particularly when behind someone else. They are fine for micro-
    navigation and throw out a very even light.

    However it does help if at least one person in the party also has a halogen lamp in case it is
    necessary to look into the distance for macronavigation. A good halogen lamp will light up features
    100s of metres away.

    There are several head-torches around now which combine both types of lamp in one unit so that you
    can choose which is appropriate. I have a black diamond head torch which has an LED and a halogen
    lamp powered by two different battery sources. This means you can't accidentally run down the
    battery for both lamps at the same time.

    Mike Clark, <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
    --
    o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark <\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing, "> ||
    _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and ` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

  16. * Chris <proteus1@gmxDOTnet> deigned to grace uk.rec.walking
    * with their presence by declaiming:

    Quoted message said:
    Jim Ford said:

    Just ordered one of their head torches. I endorse a previous poster's recommendation for this
    supplier!


    Despite having many fine led torches, I also ordered one of their 8 led head torches. Well, you
    can't have too many. ;->

    Yes - I've also got a thing about torches (also Tilley type lamps)!

    One of the best conventional small torches I've got is A 'Rayovac Roughneck'. It's the same size as
    a Mini Maglite and is waterproof, but has a better on/off switch. Best of all it's made of plastic
    (polypropylene?), which I prefer to metal because it's more corrosion and dent resistant - but the
    _best_ thing is that it's more comfortable to hold in the mouth! Oh - and they're about half the
    price of the Maglite.

    Regards: Jim Ford

  17. Reid said:

    Only worry is it doesnt look hugely waterproof?

    As long as you're not going swimming in it it ought to be okay. The mouldings will be waterproof and
    the seals should keep out unpressurised water from the electronics. I've yet to see any moans about
    Tikkas giving up in rain, and they've been (a) about for 2 or 3 years now and
    (b) very popular.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
    dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

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