LED Torches

Paul Rooney said:

I've decided to get a LED headtorch - swallowing my pride, eating humble pie and abandoning all my
street cred.

*Street* cred?

Last time I was wandering round bothies and tents in the dark with an LED head torch it was
generally acknowledged they were the best camping invention since, er, porridge, and distinguished
Those Who Know from those who were scared of being mocked by that stange alien life form known as
"young women".

Get your anorak and your head torch on! You know it makes sense!

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Paul Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote > I've decided to get a LED headtorch -> and there's a good
chance I'll be on the hill a fair bit after dark

Quoted message said:

this winter.

Early last January I was on the SW Coast Path walking from Minehead--only about eight usable hours
of light and a bit less if the landlady at the b & b was slow with breakfast. I did not like
approaching Lynmouth and Ilfracombe in the fast-gathering dusk (not to mention the rain and wind.)
Those cliffs are steep! So for my trip to Cornwall this January, I'll be sporting a new Petzl Tikka.
I'm much less anxious about the last half-hour of each day's walk.

singletrackworld.comarticle.phpOpen ↗

"George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know if LED tech has made it into bicycle lights? I for one, would pay handsomely for
100+ hours of bright light from a set of

batteries.

Quoted message said:

George

"Mike Lives" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just bought a Tigar Eternalight. If anyone needs a new torch, go to
tigar.co.ukindex2.htmOpen ↗. Amazing. Anyone else use LED

torches?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd be interested to compare notes as I haven't seen anything else like

this

Quoted message said:

in the UK.

Paul Rooney said:

I've decided to get a LED headtorch - swallowing my pride, eating humble pie and abandoning all my
street cred. They do look very good and there's a good chance I'll be on the hill a fair bit after
dark this winter.

I would take a look at the Black Diamond Moonlight which runs off 3 x AA and has 4 leds in a
tiltable array. Thjey are available at Cotswold, Field and Trek etc. I think it's better value than
the Petzl models.

Martin Richardson said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Ian Dainty
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Mike Lives" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I just bought a Tigar Eternalight. If anyone needs a new torch, go to
tigar.co.ukindex2.htmOpen ↗. Amazing. Anyone else use LED torches? I'd be interested to
compare notes as I haven't seen anything else like this in the UK.

I totally agree. But I have to admit.... I work for them.

So not entirely unbiased.

Ian.

I thought you were unemployed at present!

Just a bit of light work, I guess.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:53:14 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris

Malcolm) said:

Paul Rooney said:

I've decided to get a LED headtorch - swallowing my pride, eating humble pie and abandoning all my
street cred.

*Street* cred?

Last time I was wandering round bothies and tents in the dark with an LED head torch it was
generally acknowledged they were the best camping invention since, er, porridge, and distinguished
Those Who Know from those who were scared of being mocked by that stange alien life form known as
"young women".

Get your anorak and your head torch on! You know it makes sense!

Yes - I'll just have to hide behind a rock if I meet anyone I know. What about after I remove it -
will there be the imprint of a headtorch on my head for the rest of the evening?

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 114
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗

Bernard Hill said:

Did you see this month's Trail? They recommend a head torch be worn around the neck for better
peripheral vision. Hope it's not too tight...

I didn't, but this strikes me as missing an awful lot of the basic point of a headtorch, which is
you get light where you look by being fixed relative to your eyes.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Chris proteus1@gmxDOTnet said:

Paul Rooney said:

I've decided to get a LED headtorch - swallowing my pride, eating humble pie and abandoning all my
street cred. They do look very good and there's a good chance I'll be on the hill a fair bit after
dark this winter.

I would take a look at the Black Diamond Moonlight which runs off 3 x AA and has 4 leds in a
tiltable array. Thjey are available at Cotswold, Field and Trek etc. I think it's better value than
the Petzl models.

Thanks.

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 114
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗

Chris proteus1@gmxDOTnet said:

Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've decided to get a LED headtorch - swallowing my pride, eating humble pie and abandoning all my
street cred. They do look very good and there's a good chance I'll be on the hill a fair bit after
dark this winter.

Quoted message said:

I would take a look at the Black Diamond Moonlight which runs off 3 x AA and has 4 leds in a
tiltable array. Thjey are available at Cotswold, Field and Trek etc. I think it's better value than
the Petzl models.

For best value for money it's hard to beat the "chinese" copies of good brand name headtorches
available at www.ultraleds.com. They're so close to the originals in many details that one suspects
a bit of free enterprise on the part of whoever in the Far East makes these things for Petzl etc..

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Quoted message said:

I didn't, but this strikes me as missing an awful lot of the basic point of a headtorch, which is
you get light where you look by being fixed relative to your eyes.

Except that is the worst place. You need to light further away (low is good) in order to be able to
see relief, and to avoid lighting up the mist every time you breath out.

The pretzl led headtorch points far too near your feet for walking, it is ok for doing stuff around
camp though.

It should also be pointed out that the 'white' leds used are not really any more efficient than
halogen filamemt bulbs. Their main advantages are that they always give a white (if blueish) light
regardless of the battery voltage (they go dim, not red), and that the light is more uniform (it
doesn't have all the images of the filament).

David

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:28:03 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris

Malcolm) said:

Chris proteus1@gmxDOTnet said:

Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've decided to get a LED headtorch - swallowing my pride, eating humble pie and abandoning all
my street cred. They do look very good and there's a good chance I'll be on the hill a fair bit
after dark this winter.

Quoted message said:

I would take a look at the Black Diamond Moonlight which runs off 3 x AA and has 4 leds in a
tiltable array. Thjey are available at Cotswold, Field and Trek etc. I think it's better value
than the Petzl models.

For best value for money it's hard to beat the "chinese" copies of good brand name headtorches
available at www.ultraleds.com. They're so close to the originals in many details that one suspects
a bit of free enterprise on the part of whoever in the Far East makes these things for Petzl etc..

Thanks, both. I had a look around yesterday but could only find Petzl and Gelert, so I got a £18
Gelert and I'll see how it goes. 2 or 3 LEDs, and a 'bi-pin' bulb which is allegedly adjustable from
spot to flood, but I haven't yet discovered how to do this. I thought I might need one today, but I
was off the hill before dark.

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 117
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗

Paul Rooney said:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:53:14 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris Malcolm) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Get your anorak and your head torch on! You know it makes sense!

Quoted message said:

Yes - I'll just have to hide behind a rock if I meet anyone I know. What about after I remove it -
will there be the imprint of a headtorch on my head for the rest of the evening?

Wear it over your "wooly" hat.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

David Laight said:

Quoted message said:

I didn't, but this strikes me as missing an awful lot of the basic point of a headtorch, which is
you get light where you look by being fixed relative to your eyes.

Except that is the worst place. You need to light further away (low is good) in order to be able to
see relief, and to avoid lighting up the mist every time you breath out.

The pretzl led headtorch points far too near your feet for walking, it is ok for doing stuff around
camp though.

It should also be pointed out that the 'white' leds used are not really any more efficient than
halogen filamemt bulbs. Their main advantages are that they always give a white (if blueish) light
regardless of the battery voltage (they go dim, not red), and that the light is more uniform (it
doesn't have all the images of the filament).

David

What do you recommend for use on a winter night - for walking, not around the camp?

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 114
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗

David Laight said:

The pretzl led headtorch points far too near your feet for walking

Well, they make more than one, including hinged models, and since LEDs have a diffuse light rather
than a beam they don't "point" to anything like the same extent unless there's a focusing lens.
Which on the Tikka there isn't to speak of.

Quoted message said:

It should also be pointed out that the 'white' leds used are not really any more efficient than
halogen filamemt bulbs.

If you say so, but my primary concern is battery life, which is demonstrably ages and ages with LEDS
and substantially less than ages and ages with halogens.

Quoted message said:

Their main advantages are that they always give a white (if blueish) light regardless of the
battery voltage (they go dim, not red), and that the light is more uniform (it doesn't have all
the images of the filament).

And that the batteries last for ages and ages!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

David Laight said:

It should also be pointed out that the 'white' leds used are not really any more efficient than
halogen filamemt bulbs.

<snip> This is incorrect. *White* leds are actually blue leds covered with a phosphor - the end
result being (slightly bluish) white light. The significant thing about leds [1] is that they give
out very little heat and are very much *more* efficient than any filament bulb, which gives out more
energy as heat than light.

[1] A minority of high-end led torches such as the (Surefire L4 Lumamax) use 5 watt Luxeon Star
leds, which give out a significant amount of heat as well. However, they are still more energy
efficient than any filament bulb. Also they are digitally regulated so they do not dim over
their useful life. And they don't break!

David Laight said:

Quoted message said:

I didn't, but this strikes me as missing an awful lot of the basic point of a headtorch, which is
you get light where you look by being fixed relative to your eyes.

Except that is the worst place. You need to light further away (low is good) in order to be able to
see relief, and to avoid lighting up the mist every time you breath out.

The pretzl led headtorch points far too near your feet for walking, it is ok for doing stuff around
camp though.

Move it around a bit on your head to get it to point further away. The elastic doesn't have to be
horizontal.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Bernard Hill said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bernard Hill wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did you see this month's Trail? They recommend a head torch be worn around the neck for better
peripheral vision. Hope it's not too tight...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I didn't, but this strikes me as missing an awful lot of the basic point of a headtorch, which is
you get light where you look by being fixed relative to your eyes.

Quoted message said:

They make a distinction between general walking and climbing/scrambing.

Ah yes. For really nadgery climbing in the dark you need one round each ankle :-)

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:28:20 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris

Malcolm) said:

Paul Rooney said:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:53:14 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris Malcolm) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Get your anorak and your head torch on! You know it makes sense!

Quoted message said:

Yes - I'll just have to hide behind a rock if I meet anyone I know. What about after I remove it -
will there be the imprint of a headtorch on my head for the rest of the evening?

Wear it over your "wooly" hat.

Yes - I tried it out over my IRA-style balaclava. It's good.

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 117
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗

Chris said:

David Laight said:

It should also be pointed out that the 'white' leds used are not really any more efficient than
halogen filamemt bulbs.

This is incorrect. *White* leds are actually blue leds covered with a phosphor - the end result
being (slightly bluish) white light.

That is why I said 'white' not white.

Quoted message said:

The significant thing about leds [1] is that they give out very little heat and are very much
*more* efficient than any filament bulb, which gives out more energy as heat than light.

see: caving.org.ukeff.htmlOpen ↗

David

Quoted message said:

Well, they make more than one, including hinged models, and since LEDs have a diffuse light rather
than a beam they don't "point" to anything like the same extent unless there's a focusing lens.
Which on the Tikka there isn't to speak of.

So what is it that produces the 2' wide bright spot at 10' then?

Quoted message said:

If you say so, but my primary concern is battery life, which is demonstrably ages and ages with
LEDS and substantially less than ages and ages with halogens.

But after a few hours the light gets a lot less bright (because they are using simple current limit
circuitry) as the current goes down as the battery voltage drops. Cleary a filament bulb would be a
hopeless red glow at the same time.

So you do get light for longer, and the batteries are flatter when you throw them out, but for a lot
of the time the amount of light is a lot, lot less than when the battieries are new [1].

David

[1] unless the torch contains a DC/DC converter to maintain a constant average current regardless of
the battery voltage.