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LED headlights?

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Cycling Equipment
Published
11 January 2004
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21 January 2004
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David L. Johnso
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  1. Quoted message said:

    I need to know the DC power plug/jack size that the Night Rider uses. I like to put that size jack
    on my 30 LED bicycle light. Radio Shack's most popular size is: Size M Coaxial 5.5mm O.D. X 2.1mm
    I.D. I presently uses 6.3mm X 3.0mm to match my notebook computer supply.

    the new models use a crappy SureLock or something that is not readily available. the old coax,
    +3years ago, varied. my 6-V was 5.5x2.1, the 12-V was smaller type, ukn dimensions. for my home
    brews, i used a Molex connector, .063 pins (? i think, the smaller ones).

  2. "Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    There are probably other factors, though. Some people don't see as well in dim light as others do,
    for example. Ambient light can have an effect- lots of street lights or oncoming traffic reduce
    one's ability to adapt to dim light.

    Oncoming traffic sets my threshold for minimum headlight output. I find that generator/AA lamps are
    OK until then, even when riding pretty fast. Unless I have 10W or so I've found the shoulder has a
    tendency to disappear under oncoming lights. An ideal set up for me would be a low power continuous
    light augmented with a quick operating, much higher power light, much like auto high/low beams. I've
    yet to see one on the market like that.

  3. Jim Edwards said:

    Hello I have a question about the following statement: "Many people also had *no* clue about how
    to mount and aim a headlight, putting it above the bars and pointing it at the ground right in
    front of the wheel"

    It seems you would out-ride your headlight at a very slow speed. I don't hammer on my early
    morning commutes, but I need to see at least 5 feet in front of me to be able to dodge road
    debris. It seems like pointing the light in front of the front wheel would allow you to see what
    you are running over, not avoid it. How do the rest of you aim your lights?

    Mine (a B&M Lumotec Oval dynamo headlight) is on the fork crown and is aimed ever-so-slightly below
    horizontal. It's sufficient for hard riding on unlit lanes, even 40mph downhills - and no, the bulb
    doesn't blow at those speeds!

    Dynamo lamps give out a lot more light than their electrical power rating suggests - mine has a 6V
    3W bulb [1] but it's about twice as bright as a battery powered 6V 2.4W headlamp. Must be the AC or
    something.

    [1] the rear light is a Cateye TL-AU100BS, which is one of the very few UK *legal* LED lights - so
    the full dynamo output can go to the front.

  4. Tim McNamara said:

    I would also recommend staying away from the clear or translucent lights, which Cateye in
    particular sells. The idea is to provide a 360 degree immumination so cars and such can see you-
    but this of course will shine in your eyes and prevent good dark adaptation. All the light should
    go forward; you should wear reflective clothing and use a taillight to provide visibility from the
    side and rear.

    This makes sense, but there is a nagging question I have. When I ride on dark country roads, my eyes
    adapt to the dark quite well. But when I meet the occasional car, I am blinded temporarily by the
    lights. This can be pretty scary on a descent around a curve. Any hints on avoiding this problem? I
    wonder if "dark adaptation" (i.e. dilated pupils) adds to that problem.

    Dave dvt at psu dot edu

  5. A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    David L. Johnson wrote:


    -snip-

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Are there LED lights that really do the job? How many watts would it


    take?

    Quoted message said:

    "Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The Cateye EL-300 passes British Standards for front lights and is wildly popular over here.
    Personally I don't think it throws a real beam, so I'll stick with my dynamo for now.

    Bruce Lange said:

    I would say that for routes you are familiar with, the


    EL300 is fine, -snip-

    Quoted message said:

    I'm waiting for is a good LED light designed to work with dynamos. That would be cool.

    I was intrigued.

    So I clipped a Cateye EL-300 light to my handlebar and ran a couple of wires from my dynamo
    through a diode bridge to it.

    Amazing! It's very bright. Brighter than with batteries. The dynamo-powered EL-300 works fine in
    both constant and flashing modes.

    tinyurl.comytd5o

    Some things I discovered: -I could not get a crisp photo while spinning the wheel.

    -The light is apparently flashing faster than I can perceive because only one out of nine photos
    showed the LEDs lit

    -If you try it, note the switch on this model is wired into the light's circuit board. Most
    handlebar lamps are switched at the back, breaking the circuit between batteries. I actually
    gave up, ripped it all apart and quit but then noticed the switch wires and tried again with it
    _on_. D'oh!

    How does it compare in brightness with an incandescent light?

  6. Steven M. Scharf said:

    Since it's just a back-up, not sure I'd bother.I've never had to use a back-up for my battery
    powered lights, but in case of emergency I guess it's a good idea. For failures other than an
    exhausted battery,

    Let's ignore the most prominent cause of failure with battery lights! Then they will appear much
    more reliable!

    Quoted message said:

    I'd be more concerned about a back-up for dynamo lights, which are usually single bulb, and the
    bulbs don't last as long.

    Hundreds of hours... and, of course, you only need a spare bulb to protect against this, not a
    spare light.
    --
    David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

  7. Ted Bennett said:

    Dark adaptation is a retinal phenomenon.

    Yes.

    Quoted message said:

    Pupil size is related more to focusing than to light control.

    Can you explain this? It seems counter-intuitive, given that pupil size varies with changed light
    levels at a fixed focal length, but does not if you change your focus from near to far objects.
    Pupil size changes your depth of field of course, but I would think that this is a side effect. I
    can't decrease my pupil size by attempting to focus on near and distant objects at the same time.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Everything that can be invented has been invented. -- Charles Duell, Director of U.S. Patent
    Office, 1899

  8. Quoted message said:

    This makes sense, but there is a nagging question I have. When I ride on dark country roads, my
    eyes adapt to the dark quite well. But when I meet the occasional car, I am blinded temporarily by
    the lights. This can be pretty scary on a descent around a curve. Any hints on avoiding this
    problem? I wonder if "dark adaptation" (i.e. dilated pupils) adds to that problem.

    Dave dvt at psu dot edu

    Dark adaptation is a retinal phenomenon. Pupil size is related more to focusing than to
    light control.

    You can reduce the dazzle of oncoming headlights best by avoiding looking at them. I find it helpful
    to watch the fog line or the right shoulder. Shutting your eyes would work better but there is an
    obvious downside to that.

    --
    Ted Bennett Portland OR

  9. Ted Bennett said:
    Quoted message said:

    This makes sense, but there is a nagging question I have. When I ride on dark country roads, my
    eyes adapt to the dark quite well. But when I meet the occasional car, I am blinded temporarily by
    the lights. This can be pretty scary on a descent around a curve. Any hints on avoiding this
    problem? I wonder if "dark adaptation" (i.e. dilated pupils) adds to that problem.

    Dark adaptation is a retinal phenomenon. Pupil size is related more to focusing than to light
    control.

    Both pupil size and retinal sensitivity increase in response to low light levels. In bright light
    the pupil size is around 3 mm and after some time in darkness it increases to about 5-7 mm. The
    maximum size tends to decrease with age. I've never noticed any significant change in pupil size
    based on focusing distance. Various drugs, either artificial or naturally produced by our bodies,
    will also affect pupil size. The change in retinal sensitivity is over a much larger range than that
    produced by changes in pupil size.

    Quoted message said:

    You can reduce the dazzle of oncoming headlights best by avoiding looking at them. I find it
    helpful to watch the fog line or the right shoulder. Shutting your eyes would work better but
    there is an obvious downside to that.

    Agreed.

  10. Ted Bennett said:
    Quoted message said:

    ...when I meet the occasional car, I am blinded temporarily by the lights.

    Quoted message said:

    You can reduce the dazzle of oncoming headlights best by avoiding looking at them. I find it
    helpful to watch the fog line or the right shoulder.

    I try to do that, but it has limited effectiveness sometimes. I'll try to describe a situation from
    last week where this was true.

    I'm headed downhill into a right turn. The car coming up the hill blinds me. If I look to the right
    of the car, I'm looking at the neighboring hillside. If I look to the left, I risk following my eyes
    and riding into the oncoming car. Looking down at the road is still blinding, and I have a very
    limited range of vision. I'd still be effectively blind under any of these scenarios.

    Any other tips? Would it be beneficial to reduce my dark adaptation by using a light that
    illuminates my face faintly? Or would the downside be greater than the benefit?

    Dave dvt at psu dot edu

  11. [email hidden] (B.C. Cletta) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I need to know the DC power plug/jack size that the Night Rider uses. I like to put that size
    jack on my 30 LED bicycle light. Radio Shack's most popular size is: Size M Coaxial 5.5mm O.D. X
    2.1mm I.D. I presently uses 6.3mm X 3.0mm to match my notebook computer supply.

    the new models use a crappy SureLock or something that is not readily available. the old coax,
    +3years ago, varied. my 6-V was 5.5x2.1, the 12-V was smaller type, ukn dimensions. for my home
    brews, i used a Molex connector, .063 pins (? i think, the smaller ones).


    Thanks, I find that some mannfactures uses various sizes connection to discourage mixing. lights and
    changes size and/or types often. I agree that different voltage need to be a different size. I was
    planning to use the plug/jack on a LED light to lend to and make a beliver of a Night Rider user
    that I know. I will have to loan him the light and power pack.

  12. Ted Bennett said:

    Pupil size certainly does change with accommodation, however, and I think it is significant. Under
    constant lighting conditions, the pupil contracts as the eye accommodates, or shortens its focal
    length, and this is readily observable. The benefit is the same as with any variable aperture: a
    greater depth of focus is obtained with a smaller aperture.

    This may be a benefit, but is it the cause? Under constant light conditions, with constant pupil
    size, more light strikes one's retina under shorter focal lengths (which is why zoom lenses
    require larger apertures). Is there any reason to believe that pupil size is determined by
    anything other than the amount of light impinging upon the retina? (Not counting dilation induced
    by drugs, of course.)

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Here I am in the POSTERIOR OLFACTORY LOBULE but I don't see CARL SAGAN anywhere!!

  13. Ted Bennett said:

    The retina responds to light stimuli over a range of around 7 orders of magnitude, if I am
    remembering correctly. I'd have to look it up to be sure. A pupil, when changing from 3 to 8 mm
    diameter, increases its area by a factor of about 7, which is less than one order of magnitude. So
    changing pupil size has little effect on the sensitivity of the eye to light.

    I've only once had my eyes dilated chemically, but I recall being especially sensitive to bright
    lights afterward. If your hypothesis is correct, this must be an additional side effect of the drug,
    rather than an effect of the pupil size as I've always presumed. Perhaps this is correct, but it
    sounds a bit fishy to me.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Pupil size changes your depth of field of course, but I would think that this is a side effect.

    It well could be a side effect, but it is certainly more useful than the light control effect. And
    the original impetus for us to evolve a variable pupil? Who knows? Ask your god, or your dog,
    depending on your point of view of those questions. Since the pupil obviously reacts to a change
    in light level, it's easy to assume that the primary use of the variable aperture is to control
    light, but that isn't borne out by sensitivity measurements.

    I have another hypothesis:

    - retina response to light change is much greater than pupil size, but the former is much slower
    than the latter.

    - in constant light conditions, changing the focal length of the eye changes the amount of light
    that reaches the retina.

    - thus, being able to change sensitivity rapidly over a smaller range is
    useful. A quick change in pupil diameter allows us to do this.

    Are there any experts here who can confirm or deny?

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Here I am in the POSTERIOR OLFACTORY LOBULE but I don't see CARL SAGAN anywhere!!

  14. Benjamin Lewis said:

    I have another hypothesis:

    - retina response to light change is much greater than pupil size, but the former is much slower
    than the latter.

    - in constant light conditions, changing the focal length of the eye changes the amount of light
    that reaches the retina.

    - thus, being able to change sensitivity rapidly over a smaller range is useful. A quick change in
    pupil diameter allows us to do this.

    To follow up to myself, I'd also like to add that quickly changing pupil size to accommodate to
    quickly fluctuating light levels would seem to be useful in general, not just for changing
    focal lengths.

    I'd also note that, from an evolutionary perspective, the largest fluctuations we encounter are due
    to night and day, a slow phenomenon, whereas rapid fluctuations that we experience are much smaller
    in magnitude.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Here I am in the POSTERIOR OLFACTORY LOBULE but I don't see CARL SAGAN anywhere!!

  15. Ted Bennett <[email hidden]> writes:

    Normal attribution styles would make reading your posts much simpler.

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, that is why the variation in pupil size is more for focusing than for light control. As you
    say, the sensitive range of the retina is several orders of magnitude greater than the light
    variation due to pupil size.

    For those who are unfamiliar with the visual system, here some details.

    It takes roughly 40 minutes for a normal human retina to be fully dark adapted when transitioning
    abruptly from bright light to darkness. Interestingly enough, that's roughly how long it takes for
    twilight to deepen into night. Dark adapted vision is about 1,000 times more sensitive to light than
    light adapted vision. This is the adaptation at the retina that Ted refers to, as he says it is a
    much greater range than can be achieved by opening the iris; indeed, the iris probably has more of a
    protective function by narrowing the pupil to protect the eye from too much light rather than from
    opening to see better in low light situations.

    Rods in the retina are responsible for vision in low-light situations; they are most sensitive to
    light of a wavelength of about 505 nm (green, although the rods do not register the color). Cones,
    responsible for color vision, are most sensitive to light of about 555 nm (yellow). Cones are
    primarily part of our color day vision, adapted to normal sunlight.

    Quoted message said:

    Pupil size certainly does change with accommodation, however, and I think it is significant. Under
    constant lighting conditions, the pupil contracts as the eye accommodates, or shortens its focal
    length, and this is readily observable. The benefit is the same as with any variable aperture: a
    greater depth of focus is obtained with a smaller aperture.

    While this makes sense from what we know about camera optics, I can't find anything to support this
    in any of the sources I've got on my bookshelf. Do you have a reference?

    I found this interesting: from Gibson (1966, p. 172):

    "Accommodation can be achieved by either moving the lense toward or away from the retina, as in
    fish, or by changing its curvature, as it is in mammals... As Walls (1942) points out, "the small
    eye needs no accommodation at all" and not all vertebrate eyes accommodate for distance. The
    comparison of eyes with cameras or projectors is misleading, and the investigators of human vision,
    where the eye is not very large, have overstated the importance of focusing the lens, as if it were
    like the focusing of a picture on a screen. The human eye loses most of its power of accommodation
    at the age of 50 or 60, but if it was normal to begin with it remains a fairly efficient organ."

    Which must be whey I wear bifocals. ;-) But then my eyes weren't normal to begin with (myopia).

  16. Benjamin Lewis said:


    - retina response to light change is much greater than pupil size, but the former is much slower
    than the latter.

    - in constant light conditions, changing the focal length of the eye changes the amount of light
    that reaches the retina.

    - thus, being able to change sensitivity rapidly over a smaller range is
    useful. A quick change in pupil diameter allows us to do this.

    See my other post for a discussion of retinal sensitivity adaptation.

    Your first point is correct, the pupil changes size much more rapidly than the retina becomes dark-
    adapted. The former takes a few seconds, the latter takes about 40 minutes. This gives us two
    systems for adapting to variable brightness- one very rapid but of limited range (about 4 times
    for a minimum pupil size of 2 mm and a maximum of 8 mm), one of great range (1,000 times) but
    slow to adapt.

    Your second point is partially correct, I think. Your third point is correct in changing light
    conditions, but offers much less utility for night riding and adapting to ambient light levels-
    which of course is what the thread is about.

  17. Peter said:

    Sure, but the pupil size change is still significant in dark adaptation even though the chemistry
    of the retina produces most of the effect. Going from 3 mm to 7 mm changes the amount of light
    admitted by more than a factor of 5

    Retinal illuminance is calculable by the formula:

    (cd/m^2)(pa)=td

    (in English: luminance * pupil area = troland)

    where

    luminance = candela per meter squared (cd/m^2) and pupil area = area of pupil in mm^2 troland =
    retinal illuminance

    A white page of textbook paper typically has a luminence of 34 cd/m^2 in "normal" room lighting.
    Therefore, for 3 mm and 7 mm pupils:

    34 * 9 = 306

    34 * 81 = 2,754

    or a difference factor of 9 (I erroneously posted a factor of 4 in another post for 2 mm and 8 mm
    pupils, when the correct difference would be 16). I don't know the formula- my perception class
    having been long ago- but the number "td" can be used to calculate the number of photons falling on
    the retina. Compare this to the difference factor of 1,000 in the sensitivity of the light-adapted
    and dark-adapted human eye.

    (My numbers and formula come from Kaufman (1979). Perception: The World Transformed. New York:
    Oxford University Press).

  18. Tim McNamara said:
    Benjamin Lewis said:


    - retina response to light change is much greater than pupil size, but the former is much slower
    than the latter.

    - in constant light conditions, changing the focal length of the eye changes the amount of light
    that reaches the retina.

    - thus, being able to change sensitivity rapidly over a smaller range is useful. A quick change
    in pupil diameter allows us to do this.

    See my other post for a discussion of retinal sensitivity adaptation.

    Your first point is correct, the pupil changes size much more rapidly than the retina becomes dark-
    adapted. The former takes a few seconds,

    Even less than a second, from what I can see: iop.org008

    Quoted message said:

    the latter takes about 40 minutes. This gives us two systems for adapting to variable brightness-
    one very rapid but of limited range (about 4 times for a minimum pupil size of 2 mm and a maximum
    of 8 mm), one of great range (1,000 times) but slow to adapt.

    Your second point is partially correct, I think.

    Yes, on reflection it is minor compared to other sources of quick light variation, as I realized
    when posting my followup to myself. (Although it's completely correct ;-P .) As someone else
    (Peter?) pointed out, the change in pupil size with changed focal length is a very small effect,
    compared with, say, the change due to patches of sunlight through trees.

    Quoted message said:

    Your third point is correct in changing light conditions, but offers much less utility for night
    riding and adapting to ambient light levels- which of course is what the thread is about.

    Topic, shmopic. Anyway, isn't it helpful preventing one from being temporarily blinded by headlights
    and other light sources at night?

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Here I am in the POSTERIOR OLFACTORY LOBULE but I don't see CARL SAGAN anywhere!!

  19. A Muzi said:

    I clipped a Cateye EL-300 light to my handlebar and ran a couple of wires from my dynamo through a
    diode bridge to it.

    Amazing! It's very bright. Brighter than with batteries. The dynamo-powered EL-300 works fine in
    both constant and flashing modes.

    tinyurl.comytd5o

    Neat!

    Can you take some voltage and current readings? That would be interesting.

    --
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

  20. rosco said:

    Just curious - has anyone ever made a 12VDC florescent bike light? Are they more fragile?
    Certainly ones I've seen for home use aren't exactly small and light.

    Back in the 1970s, someone manufactured a generator-powered flourescent light. I saw only one in
    action. It cast a very diffused glow around the rider, and wasn't very useful, from what I could
    see. Kind of like the currently fashionable underbody neon lights for cars. (Or was that last year's
    fashion? I tend to get behind...)

    Playing around, I once hooked a flourescent lantern bulb to a generator, using a step-up
    transformer. And I played with a battery-powered version, too. I confirmed what Jobst later posted
    here: there was no practical way to get a focused beam out of that diffuse source.

    I've recently seen small flashlight/lanterns with miniature flourescent tubes, roughly 1/8" diameter
    by 2" long, IIRC. Those might be focused with moderate success. But I though I read that their
    lumens/watt efficiency wasn't all that great. Can anyone confirm?

    --
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

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