Last three days taper before marathon

[email hidden] (Edward) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am running London on Sunday and according to my schedule (Bruce Tulloh's Sub 3.00 in
Runners World)

Today (Wednesday) 4m slow (30min) Thursday Rest Friday Rest Saturday 2m (15m) easy Sunday 26.2 m
(2h xxm)

2 questions:

Is rest on Thurs and Fri correct?

If you've followed the program up to now and feel good about it why question it in the last 3 days?

Nothing you can do in the last 3 days, other than injuring yourself or running a workout you can't
recover from, is going to help or hurt.

Quoted message said:

Is the 2m on Saturday good, and would some strides be a good idea?

Strides have greater potential for injuring you than for helping you.

Quoted message said:

I have followed this schedule reasonably closely and am feeling good, but just wondered if this
was the best way to complete the week.

Sounds reasonable to me.

my $0.02 Andy

Quoted message said:

Is rest on Thurs and Fri correct?

I such running light-normal just before the marathon. I get jumpy if I take too many rest days.
Trying NEW things so close to a marathon may not work.

I wouldn't even run the 2 miles the day before.

"Edward" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am running London on Sunday and according to my schedule (Bruce Tulloh's Sub 3.00 in
Runners World)

Today (Wednesday) 4m slow (30min) Thursday Rest Friday Rest Saturday 2m (15m) easy Sunday 26.2 m
(2h xxm)

2 questions:

Is rest on Thurs and Fri correct?

Is the 2m on Saturday good, and would some strides be a good idea?

I have followed this schedule reasonably closely and am feeling good, but just wondered if this
was the best way to complete the week.

TIA

Edward

I am a firm believer in using interval taper to prepare for a big race. This would have me doing a
few short intense intervals on Thursday and Friday. I always do absolutely nothing the day before
a marathon.

If this is your first, or you really are not concerned that much with your time, then I would not
suggest interval taper.

Michael

"Edward" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am running London on Sunday and according to my schedule (Bruce Tulloh's Sub 3.00 in
Runners World)

Today (Wednesday) 4m slow (30min) Thursday Rest Friday Rest Saturday 2m (15m) easy Sunday 26.2 m
(2h xxm)

2 questions:

Is rest on Thurs and Fri correct?

Is the 2m on Saturday good, and would some strides be a good idea?

I have followed this schedule reasonably closely and am feeling good, but just wondered if this
was the best way to complete the week.

TIA

Edward

(Edward) said:

Is rest on Thurs and Fri correct?

Yes. Perfect even. This is when you'll store the major part of the glycogen you'll be needing on
Sunday. If you can, spend as much time as possible sitting or lying down. If you're used to it, a
complete stretching session can be good.

Also, get plenty of sleep these nights, Saturday's less important but Friday's essential.

Quoted message said:

Is the 2m on Saturday good, and would some strides be a good idea?

Sounds OK. I used to do 20' easy + 5x200m at race pace put I don't think it made any difference over
a 20' jog.

Quoted message said:

I have followed this schedule reasonably closely and am feeling good, but just wondered if this was
the best way to complete the week.

An unreserved yes!

Eat plenty of pasta, rice, potatoes and such and plenty of water. Fish and poultry if you eat meat.
Nothing too spicey and go easy on the veggies on Saturday and avoid anything that "ferments"
(cabbage, cauli, baked beans :-).

Oh and no [censored]-up on Friday night :-)

[email hidden] (Edward) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am running London on Sunday and according to my schedule (Bruce Tulloh's Sub 3.00 in
Runners World)

Today (Wednesday) 4m slow (30min) Thursday Rest Friday Rest Saturday 2m (15m) easy Sunday 26.2 m
(2h xxm)

2 questions:

Is rest on Thurs and Fri correct?

Is the 2m on Saturday good, and would some strides be a good idea?

I have followed this schedule reasonably closely and am feeling good, but just wondered if this
was the best way to complete the week.

TIA

Edward

Have decided to do circuit training today - there is some running but I can do that really slowly,
and the rest of the stuff is just mild CV work and muscle toning. I just want to remind my body that
there is a big effort coming up and not to go to sleep!

Thanks for all the responses anyway - will let you know how it goes!

Edward

steve common said:

(Edward) said:

Is rest on Thurs and Fri correct?

Yes. Perfect even. This is when you'll store the major part of the glycogen you'll be needing on
Sunday. If you can, spend as much time as possible sitting or lying down. If you're used to it, a
complete stretching session can be good.

Steve, I bow to your speed and marathon chops compared to mine, but let me ask you to say more about
this answer. I have read (I think Pfitzinger) that during glycogen loading in the two to three days
prior to marathon day, it's helpful to do a very short, very slow run as an added stimulus to
glycogen storing. What's your take on that? thanks. chris

Chris Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

steve common said:

(Edward) said:

Is rest on Thurs and Fri correct?

Yes. Perfect even. This is when you'll store the major part of the glycogen you'll be needing on
Sunday. If you can, spend as much time as possible sitting or lying down. If you're used to it,
a complete stretching session can be good.

Steve, I bow to your speed and marathon chops compared to mine, but let me ask you to say more
about this answer. I have read (I think Pfitzinger) that during glycogen loading in the two to
three days prior to marathon day, it's helpful to do a very short, very slow run as an added
stimulus to glycogen storing. What's your take on that? thanks. chris

Thanks for all the info guys - so much conflicting advice (have posted this on runners world uk
London Marathon Forum too).

What I am concerned with is that after such a heavy training schedule in the foregoing three months,
stopping for two days might lead my body to "shut down". That is what my training partner thinks (he
is a 1m 45s 800 metre guy, and knows a thing or two about running).

I also thought I read somewhere about the run helping glycogen loading, though I recalled that the
run was supposed to be eyeballs-out! So confusing.

Edward

Chris Smith said:

Steve, I bow to your speed and marathon chops compared to mine, but let me ask you to say more
about this answer. I have read (I think Pfitzinger) that during glycogen loading in the two to
three days prior to marathon day, it's helpful to do a very short, very slow run as an added
stimulus to glycogen storing. What's your take on that?

If the training is really light, yes, I expect it should be OK. But I hadn't heard that it actually
helped. Interesting. And not at all unreasonable. The light runs would maybe keep the enzymes levels
higher than by resting completely... Hmmmmmm.

I was aware of the "eyeballs out" run theory, but that was proposed (and is still is), as the last
run *before* carbo-loading (Wednesday or Thursday morning before breakfast).

This turns out not to be particularly good value-for-money compared to the tiredness and injury
risks it can cause. One isolated run doesn't have much effect on the overall enzymes activity.

Same with the strict "Scandinavian" diet. Not worth the hassle, tiredness and risks, except maybe at
international level.

Research by Taylor (1972) showed that the enzymes which is supposed to be stimulated by the
"exhaustion" run is actually very active already in trained endurance athletes (5 times more than
sedentary subjects).

Adolfsson provided more on this by having subjects pedal with only one leg.

The conclusion was that, for a correctly-trained endurance athlete, 3 days of light training, on
reduced carb diet, followed by three days light training on high-carb diet was perfectly good
enough, if not considerably better overall.

Quoted message said:

What I am concerned with is that after such a heavy training schedule in the foregoing three
months, stopping for two days might lead my body to "shut down". That is what my training partner
thinks (he is a 1m 45s 800 metre guy, and knows a thing or two about running).

--Don't worry! If I race Sat I would take Thurs off and do about 3-4 ridiculously easy miles on Fri
to loosen out and stretch. I ALWAYS feel like [censored] the day before a marathon from backing off so
much, but ALWAYS feel like a prizefighter on the big morning. Andy Hass

Edward said:

Quoted message said:

I also thought I read somewhere about the run helping glycogen loading, though I recalled that the
run was supposed to be eyeballs-out! So confusing.

Edward

I haven't had time to look for the article in my stack, but sometime (maybe last fall) there was an
article, probably by Owen Anderson and probably in Running Research News but not sure. My
recollection was that a 3-min (yes, only 3 min) hard workout reduced glycogen (more so than longer
less intense runs), and then reload from there. But if you haven't tried it before, now is not the
time, esp. since there are probably other parts to the article that I can't remember and may be
essential to the technique.

Good luck.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

I agree with what Andy said, and I'll add ...

If you don't feel restless during your taper, you're not doing it right. If you're worried you're
not running enough, you're doing it right. If you find yourself having trouble sleeping, you're
probably doing it right.

-Keith

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What I am concerned with is that after such a heavy training schedule in the foregoing three
months, stopping for two days might lead my body to "shut down". That is what my training partner
thinks (he is a 1m 45s 800 metre guy, and knows a thing or two about running).

--Don't worry! If I race Sat I would take Thurs off and do about 3-4 ridiculously easy miles on
Fri to loosen out and stretch. I ALWAYS feel like [censored] the day before a marathon from backing off
so much, but ALWAYS feel like a prizefighter on the big morning. Andy Hass

--
Keith Gemeinhart Technology Service Corp. Sebring, FL
--

steve common <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Same with the strict "Scandinavian" diet. Not worth the hassle, tiredness and risks, except maybe
at international level.

It is also the current "Scandinavian belief" that the (up to 3-day fat-and-protein diet isn´t really
required and that the exhaustion run need not be harder than 90-120(1) mins at moderate effort.

However, for some athletes the "old brute method" does bring a better result; it´s just that a goal
race isn´t the proper time to find out that you are not one of them...

(1) depending, of course, on the individual training load, but a bit longer than "the average
training run"

Quoted message said:

The conclusion was that, for a correctly-trained endurance athlete, 3 days of light training, on
reduced carb diet, followed by three days light training on high-carb diet was perfectly good
enough, if not considerably better overall.

Quite. If one wants to exeriment, one can then try either the PG- rated - which I`ve found out to
work for me - or the X-rated Scandinavian stuff.

Anders