Kuota Khan, Colnago C50 & CT2
- Thread starter Rudy
- Start date
From: http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2004/news/may21
Alessandro Petacchi's bike sponsor Pinarello is understandably more than a little happy at the Italian sprinter's domination of the stage finishes so far at the year's Giro d'Italia. Out of the seven 'sprinter's stages' so far, Petacchi has landed five of them aboard his magnesium Pinarello Dogma.
Petacchi features in Pinarello's latest ad campaign for the Dogma, but as if to prove that racing really does improve the breed as well as sell it, Fassa Bortolo has been riding on beefed up Dogma frames since Milan-San Remo. The seat tube and chainstays have gained 0.15mm thicker walls to stiffen them - exactly the kind of improvement you'd expect a sprinter such as Petacchi to ask for.
Fausto Pinarello told Cyclingnews, "Our philosphy at Cicli Pinarello is that we constantly try to improve our products and this more rigid Dogma is also a running change to all Pinarello Dogma frames that began with January 2004 production."
It doesn't take a very close examination to see that configuration of Petacchi's bike is designed to deliver him to the line as quickly as possible over that final few hundred metres. Petacchi is relatively tall for a pro cyclist at 184cm (just over six feet) but with a 140mm stem, a 58.5cm top tube and a huge drop from the saddle to the bottom of his 44cm wide Merckx-style bars, his set-up would still have normal mortals feeling like they were stretched on a rack. It obviously works for him, though.
As Dr Ferrari has observed, Petacchi's adopts a "particularly penetrating aerodynamic profile" in a stage finale, which is essential if you're going to cover 100m at 67km/h. "Whenever he launches the sprint, Petacchi takes a very low position with the head," observes Dr Ferrari, "while the shoulders shrink to his neck and sides: he definitely looks like a torpedo!"
Nice discussion. It seems that there is a big arguement about the best cf bike. On other pages in this forum there is a bit of support for the Trek Madone. Whilst I havent tried it the Lemond cf/ti bikes look really interesting. Hopefully achieving the best of both worlds.
Just my thoughts.
Just my thoughts.
Rudy....
Some things you said in this discussion so far:
-'The Khan is just simply beautiful with its naked carbon finished'
-'But...without the dead feel of a carbon frame, like that of a Trek 5200. A monocoque frame perhaps?'
-'When I went shopping for my Talon, it was because my 1997 Litespeed Catalyst was too flexy (though very comfy) and I wanted a frame that I can set it up for TT as well.'
-'That is.... light, lively yet stiff and comfy at the same time. wow, that's a dream alright'
-'I've ridden the Trek, Giant and now...my own Kestrel Talon. And the Trek was the only one with that carbon dead feel. So how much better can these Colnagos or Kuota Khan be?'
-----------------------------
-So you want a light, comfy, stiff frame. Maybe also an aero frame. The frames that are mentioned here are all expensive. So you like nice/rare bikes as well?
The solution is a carbon frame, monocoque, with proven geometry, carbon claer coat finish and rare to find. If possible also aero tubes.
Did you checked this frame:
-Yellow+matural carbon:
http://members.lycos.nl/michaelmuusse/colnago carbonissimo oof groot.jpg
-Completely natural carbon:
http://www.fairwheelbikes.com/products/colnago/carbonissimos/carbon-gold-1.jpg
It's the Carbonissimo. A very rare frame made by Colnago in collaboration with Ferrari. It's monocoque, really one pice of carbon fiber. It's extremely stiff and looks amazing. It's weight is less then a C50. It has the famous Colnago-geomtetry. It's beefy tubes make the frame aero and stiff. The rearstay is also one piece. That's means the dropouts are also made of the same piece cf. The carbonissimo frame will still look amazing after 15years. Not like the Kuota
It's also exactly the same frame as the CF1 and CF3. These frames are special Ferrari bikes. The only thing is they have a special paint.
http://www.trialtir-usa.com/2004-colnago/ferrari/cf3/cf3-mainpage.htm
It's about $300euro more the a C50. I've seen it in the USA bikeshops: $3300. It's availeble in 4 colors and comes woth a monocoque star fork.
here is also some info. Do not buy it here because it's overprized.
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&PRODUCT.ID=138
more pics:
http://www.brittonbikes.com/colnago-2004/c45/carbon-00f-headtube.jpg
http://www.brittonbikes.com/colnago-2004/c45/carbon-00f-bottombracket.jpg
http://www.brittonbikes.com/colnago-2004/c45/carbon-00f-seattube.jpg
Some things you said in this discussion so far:
-'The Khan is just simply beautiful with its naked carbon finished'
-'But...without the dead feel of a carbon frame, like that of a Trek 5200. A monocoque frame perhaps?'
-'When I went shopping for my Talon, it was because my 1997 Litespeed Catalyst was too flexy (though very comfy) and I wanted a frame that I can set it up for TT as well.'
-'That is.... light, lively yet stiff and comfy at the same time. wow, that's a dream alright'
-'I've ridden the Trek, Giant and now...my own Kestrel Talon. And the Trek was the only one with that carbon dead feel. So how much better can these Colnagos or Kuota Khan be?'
-----------------------------
-So you want a light, comfy, stiff frame. Maybe also an aero frame. The frames that are mentioned here are all expensive. So you like nice/rare bikes as well?
The solution is a carbon frame, monocoque, with proven geometry, carbon claer coat finish and rare to find. If possible also aero tubes.
Did you checked this frame:
-Yellow+matural carbon:
http://members.lycos.nl/michaelmuusse/colnago carbonissimo oof groot.jpg
-Completely natural carbon:
http://www.fairwheelbikes.com/products/colnago/carbonissimos/carbon-gold-1.jpg
It's the Carbonissimo. A very rare frame made by Colnago in collaboration with Ferrari. It's monocoque, really one pice of carbon fiber. It's extremely stiff and looks amazing. It's weight is less then a C50. It has the famous Colnago-geomtetry. It's beefy tubes make the frame aero and stiff. The rearstay is also one piece. That's means the dropouts are also made of the same piece cf. The carbonissimo frame will still look amazing after 15years. Not like the Kuota
It's also exactly the same frame as the CF1 and CF3. These frames are special Ferrari bikes. The only thing is they have a special paint.
http://www.trialtir-usa.com/2004-colnago/ferrari/cf3/cf3-mainpage.htm
It's about $300euro more the a C50. I've seen it in the USA bikeshops: $3300. It's availeble in 4 colors and comes woth a monocoque star fork.
here is also some info. Do not buy it here because it's overprized.
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&PRODUCT.ID=138
more pics:
http://www.brittonbikes.com/colnago-2004/c45/carbon-00f-headtube.jpg
http://www.brittonbikes.com/colnago-2004/c45/carbon-00f-bottombracket.jpg
http://www.brittonbikes.com/colnago-2004/c45/carbon-00f-seattube.jpg
'I've ridden the Trek, Giant and now...my own Kestrel Talon. And the Trek was the only one with that carbon dead feel. So how much better can these Colnagos or Kuota Khan be?'
Colnago frames are amazing. When I received my C40 I looked about 3 hours at it. It's shape, colors, it looks incredible. The first photo in the previous post must give you an idea how a Carbonissimo looks. But a real frame is 10x nicer/more amazing then the photo.
Colnago frames are amazing. When I received my C40 I looked about 3 hours at it. It's shape, colors, it looks incredible. The first photo in the previous post must give you an idea how a Carbonissimo looks. But a real frame is 10x nicer/more amazing then the photo.
Thanks Marlon and patch70. One point though, I don't think the Carbonissimo is lighter than the C50 though. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think the Carbo maybe too stiff and very much like my Talon, fast but not meant for longer distances. I think the Carbo will be priced out at around $7K to $8K...which I think is ridiculous.
No it doesn't have to have be aero frame.
The goal was to get something that has a very good transfer of power yet at the same time, comfy, and you can go on very long rides. Right now I ride my Talon almost exclusively but last nite I rode my Litespeed Catalyst, and boy!! it's still is one of the smoothest and most comfy bikes yet, ever. But being more flexy, it's not as efficient. And I can tell when looking down at the speedometer...thus shorter distance.
Marlon, Why did you get the C40 ? Can you describe & give some feed back on your C40's ride? thanks.
The Kuota Khan and Kredos seem like winner too and priced reasonable when compared to the Colnago. Especially The Khan, with its seat statys wrapped around the seta tube, which they said would divert the shock and vibration away from your butt and onto the top tube, is such an interesting concept, hope that it's NOT just all marketing hype.
Below, see the King, Corum, and Dual -- a trio of incomparable love-muffins, sculpted by old Italian men in carbon, steel, and an alu/carbon mix, respectively. Not pictured here, but equally ridiculous and majestic, is the Cinquanta, DeRosa's 50th annivesary rolling trust fund. A modified carbon King frame, polished up in a blue-tinted clear coat, with matching blue-tinted Record levers and a dark-blue adonized crank, and striking gold trim elsewhere... Rudy, from the most biased corners of my heart, I insist that DeRosa is the only way to go for high-end Italian.Originally posted by Rudy
Why don't we add De rosa into the picture!
For style points, consider that they're a bit less ubiquitous than Colnagos.
Lokstah...I value your opinions...but I sometimes still have a mental block about aluminum frames. Thus the Dual maybe not be in the running.
I'm thinking of Ti and Carbon only and maybe that's wrong but....knock on my head with something to convince me
They are..however...beautiful bilkes and I have thought about them. Size wise, they're not as widely available as the Colnago. As you all know, not all 53cm or 54 cm are alike. So maybe size may not be an issue.
I'm thinking of Ti and Carbon only and maybe that's wrong but....knock on my head with something to convince me
They are..however...beautiful bilkes and I have thought about them. Size wise, they're not as widely available as the Colnago. As you all know, not all 53cm or 54 cm are alike. So maybe size may not be an issue.
Originally posted by lokstah
Well, clearly, there's only one thing left to do. Go buy a King. Can't wait to hear your first ride report! Congratulations!
LOL...it's still in the dream stage. But if that project comes through...it would be a reality. Now the fun part is doing all the research.
Rudy....
I'm not fooling around or something, I know some stuff about bikes.
CARBONISSIMO WEIGHT
-The carbonissimo the same weight or is lighter than the c50.
It's difficult to come with exact data because the carbo is an hand made frame. The weight also depends on the size of the frame. I can only say there is almost no difference. You can gain 500g. with your wheels or something, so don't bother about a little weight difference in the frameset.
For example competitivecyclist data:
-carbonissimo. 1150g. fork: 360g.
-c50 hp 1165g. fork: 360g.
One thing I learned form cycling with all different bikes/brands. Colnago's and Campangolo's weight is correct within 5% or so. Other brands cheat with weight data (for example they give a wheel weight without freewheel, quick releases locjkrings).
CARBONISSIMO GEOMETRY (LONG DISTANCE)
The Carbo is not a TT frame. A special Carbonissimo-TT (named : C45) is made by Colnago. The normal carbonissimo has the same geometry as the C50!!!
CARBONISSIMO PRIZE
The Carbonissimo frameset is $3300 including Star fork.
.....
My C40 is from 2003 and is in LX23 colors. It looks Amazing!!! Colnago bikes are beautiful. The shape, the paint, the geometry. I choose the C40 BStay and not the C50HP because I don't like the HP rearstay. I have ordered a new Carbonissimo-TT (called C45), I will receive it in 1 month.
I tryed to place some nice pictures of the Carbonissimo. If you want more, let me know.
-----------------
Thanks Marlon and patch70. One point though, I don't think the Carbonissimo is lighter than the C50 though. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think the Carbo maybe too stiff and very much like my Talon, fast but not meant for longer distances. I think the Carbo will be priced out at around $7K to $8K...which I think is ridiculous.
No it doesn't have to have be aero frame.
The goal was to get something that has a very good transfer of power yet at the same time, comfy, and you can go on very long rides. Right now I ride my Talon almost exclusively but last nite I rode my Litespeed Catalyst, and boy!! it's still is one of the smoothest and most comfy bikes yet, ever. But being more flexy, it's not as efficient. And I can tell when looking down at the speedometer...thus shorter distance.
Marlon, Why did you get the C40 ? Can you describe & give some feed back on your C40's ride? thanks.
The Kuota Khan and Kredos seem like winner too and priced reasonable when compared to the Colnago. Especially The Khan, with its seat statys wrapped around the seta tube, which they said would divert the shock and vibration away from your butt and onto the top tube, is such an interesting concept, hope that it's NOT just all marketing hype.
I'm not fooling around or something, I know some stuff about bikes.
CARBONISSIMO WEIGHT
-The carbonissimo the same weight or is lighter than the c50.
It's difficult to come with exact data because the carbo is an hand made frame. The weight also depends on the size of the frame. I can only say there is almost no difference. You can gain 500g. with your wheels or something, so don't bother about a little weight difference in the frameset.
For example competitivecyclist data:
-carbonissimo. 1150g. fork: 360g.
-c50 hp 1165g. fork: 360g.
One thing I learned form cycling with all different bikes/brands. Colnago's and Campangolo's weight is correct within 5% or so. Other brands cheat with weight data (for example they give a wheel weight without freewheel, quick releases locjkrings).
CARBONISSIMO GEOMETRY (LONG DISTANCE)
The Carbo is not a TT frame. A special Carbonissimo-TT (named : C45) is made by Colnago. The normal carbonissimo has the same geometry as the C50!!!
CARBONISSIMO PRIZE
The Carbonissimo frameset is $3300 including Star fork.
.....
My C40 is from 2003 and is in LX23 colors. It looks Amazing!!! Colnago bikes are beautiful. The shape, the paint, the geometry. I choose the C40 BStay and not the C50HP because I don't like the HP rearstay. I have ordered a new Carbonissimo-TT (called C45), I will receive it in 1 month.
I tryed to place some nice pictures of the Carbonissimo. If you want more, let me know.
-----------------
Thanks Marlon and patch70. One point though, I don't think the Carbonissimo is lighter than the C50 though. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think the Carbo maybe too stiff and very much like my Talon, fast but not meant for longer distances. I think the Carbo will be priced out at around $7K to $8K...which I think is ridiculous.
No it doesn't have to have be aero frame.
The goal was to get something that has a very good transfer of power yet at the same time, comfy, and you can go on very long rides. Right now I ride my Talon almost exclusively but last nite I rode my Litespeed Catalyst, and boy!! it's still is one of the smoothest and most comfy bikes yet, ever. But being more flexy, it's not as efficient. And I can tell when looking down at the speedometer...thus shorter distance.
Marlon, Why did you get the C40 ? Can you describe & give some feed back on your C40's ride? thanks.
The Kuota Khan and Kredos seem like winner too and priced reasonable when compared to the Colnago. Especially The Khan, with its seat statys wrapped around the seta tube, which they said would divert the shock and vibration away from your butt and onto the top tube, is such an interesting concept, hope that it's NOT just all marketing hype.
Originally posted by lokstah
Below, see the King, Corum, and Dual -- a trio of incomparable love-muffins, sculpted by old Italian men in carbon, steel, and an alu/carbon mix, respectively. Not pictured here, but equally ridiculous and majestic, is the Cinquanta, DeRosa's 50th annivesary rolling trust fund. A modified carbon King frame, polished up in a blue-tinted clear coat, with matching blue-tinted Record levers and a dark-blue adonized crank, and striking gold trim elsewhere... Rudy, from the most biased corners of my heart, I insist that DeRosa is the only way to go for high-end Italian.
For style points, consider that they're a bit less ubiquitous than Colnagos.
I´ve seen the Cinquanta and had my hands on it. It´s so pimped up you would not able to ride it. The only place it would really fit, is in Frisco, with a rider all decked out in gold helmet/shoes and liberacelike attire and attitude. It´s just too much of a good thing.
I don't follow this thread for about a day and all of the sudden everyone sees the light!
Rudy, I ride a De Rosa Planet (alu-carbon), and it is a joy to ride. Just do what Lokstah told you, sell the house and get a King! Fix it up with all the sexy carbon Campagnolo Record bits you can find, and away you go!
In any event, do not write off alu-carbon - by all means find someone to let you test ride one. I know that many claim that alu-carbon is a marketing gimmick, and that may be true, but it is not uncomfortable, and gives a nice responsive ride (even for me, riding the Planet, kind of the Yugo of the De Rosa lineup). Know a few guys who ride them here and love 'em. Less common than Pinarello and Colnago, even nicer built and a joy to ride.
I agree with mrowkoob about the cinquanta. If you are undecided, just go with the King, understated, classic, bellissima!
And post a picture when you have it built up!
Rudy, I ride a De Rosa Planet (alu-carbon), and it is a joy to ride. Just do what Lokstah told you, sell the house and get a King! Fix it up with all the sexy carbon Campagnolo Record bits you can find, and away you go!
In any event, do not write off alu-carbon - by all means find someone to let you test ride one. I know that many claim that alu-carbon is a marketing gimmick, and that may be true, but it is not uncomfortable, and gives a nice responsive ride (even for me, riding the Planet, kind of the Yugo of the De Rosa lineup). Know a few guys who ride them here and love 'em. Less common than Pinarello and Colnago, even nicer built and a joy to ride.
I agree with mrowkoob about the cinquanta. If you are undecided, just go with the King, understated, classic, bellissima!
And post a picture when you have it built up!
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