Kona Kilauea

Steve Walford said:

I have just purchased off a neighbour the above bike, he claims it is
around a 1997 model. As I understand it it was rather a high spec
machine in its time

A number of questions
Is it possible to upgrade from canti to V brakes, things appear
straight forward apart from the fact that there is no rear outer brake
cable stop. The rear brake inner cable comes from the front stop and
passes through a guide that is mounted on the seat tube

I'd leave it as it is. You could upgrade to cantis that take threaded
pads; the worst kind are those with plain post pads which are
unbelievably hirrible to set up.

Quoted message said:

One of the main reasons for asking is I would like to change the
shifters (7 speed) to rapid / EZ fire and combined shifters / V brake
levers appear to be easier to come buy

Settle Cycles sell 7 speed Shimano STX RC Rapidfire units which are
independent of the brakes. Not too expensive either.

Quoted message said:

Is it possible to upgrade the bottom bracket to a sealed unit, how do
I size it if it is possible

Just remove the old one and measure the length of the axle from end to
end. A UN73 is the one to go for.

If it currently has Shimano thumbshifters and they're in good condition,
they are very saleable, since Shimano in their infinite wisdom stopped
making this superior product.

Steve Walford said:

I have just purchased off a neighbour the above bike, he
claims it is around a 1997 model. As I understand it it was
rather a high spec machine in its time

Next to the top of Kona's steel production line-up. I've got a '94.

If it came with cantilevers, it's not a '97 - I think they went V-brake in
the '96 model year, and a 7-speed would likely be '94 or older if the
equipment is original. You might be able to identify it from the catalogue
scans at:

http://www.konaretro.com

Here's a '97 Kilauea for reference:

http://www.konaretro.com/articles/catalogues/1997/97Page17.jpg

Quoted message said:

Is it possible to upgrade from canti to V brakes, things
appear straight forward apart from the fact that there is
no rear outer brake cable stop.

The simplest approach is to run a single length of housing all the way from
the lever to the brake. Lash it to the top tube with electrical tape or a
couple of zip ties.

Quoted message said:

One of the main reasons for asking is I would like to change
the shifters (7 speed) to rapid / EZ fire and combined shifters
/ V brake levers appear to be easier to come buy.

Have a look on eBay if you're intent on staying with 7-speed.
Alternatively, if you're set on upgrading the shifters, consider a move to
9-speed. If it has Suntour XC-Pro thumbshifters, they're becoming quite
collectable.

Quoted message said:

Is it possible to upgrade the bottom bracket to a sealed
unit, how do I size it if it is possible

The shell is a standard 68mm British-threaded one. The axle length depends
on the cranks you want to use.

James Thomson

in message <[email hidden]>, Steve Walford

(') said:

I have just purchased off a neighbour the above bike, he claims it is
around a 1997 model.

If it's 97 I would expect it to have come with Vs. V brakes came in in
the early nineties as full suspension bikes became more common; I
wouldn't expect cantis on a high end bike by 97. Not that there's much
wrong with cantis on a hardtail.

Quoted message said:

As I understand it it was rather a high spec
machine in its time

A number of questions
Is it possible to upgrade from canti to V brakes,

Yes.

Quoted message said:

things appear
straight forward apart from the fact that there is no rear outer brake
cable stop.

You don't need one with Vs, the cable goes straight into the noodle on
the brake.

Quoted message said:

The rear brake inner cable comes from the front stop and
passes through a guide that is mounted on the seat tube
One of the main reasons for asking is I would like to change the
shifters (7 speed) to rapid / EZ fire and combined shifters / V brake
levers appear to be easier to come buy

Try SRAM Gripshift before you buy Rapidfire/EZfire. I did, and I'm a
total convert. You can trim the front changer and sweep through the
ratios at the back, neither of which is possible with Rapidfire/EZfire.

Quoted message said:

Is it possible to upgrade the bottom bracket to a sealed unit, how do
I size it if it is possible

Yes. To get the chainline right you need a BB specced for your chainset.
At some stage in the mid 90s Shimano changed where the chainset sat on
the taper, so be careful about this - not all Shimano chainsets will
work with all Shimano bottom brackets. Virtually all mountain bikes
have 73mm wide 'British' or 'ISO' threaded bottom bracket shells.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb.

Simon Brooke said:

Virtually all mountain bikes
have 73mm wide 'British' or 'ISO' threaded bottom bracket shells.

68mm surely?

On 18/2/05 12:00 am, in article
[email hidden], "Simon Brooke"

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Steve Walford

(') said:

I have just purchased off a neighbour the above bike, he claims it is
around a 1997 model.

If it's 97 I would expect it to have come with Vs. V brakes came in in
the early nineties as full suspension bikes became more common; I
wouldn't expect cantis on a high end bike by 97. Not that there's much
wrong with cantis on a hardtail.

Quoted message said:

As I understand it it was rather a high spec
machine in its time

A number of questions
Is it possible to upgrade from canti to V brakes,

Yes.

Though they may require modifications to the bike and may clash with the
mudguards. Some canti bossess are also set extremely wide and certain
V-brakes (those where the distance of the pad from teh arm is only minimally
adjustable) may be compromised.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

things appear
straight forward apart from the fact that there is no rear outer brake
cable stop.

You don't need one with Vs, the cable goes straight into the noodle on
the brake.

Yes you do.. Read the description. There is no cable outer to reach the
V-brakes. Thinking about it, I have exactly the same problem on the
commuter. You need something either side of the callipers to force them
together. With just an inner you do not have that.

You will need to get a bolt on cable stop to fit your frame.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The rear brake inner cable comes from the front stop and
passes through a guide that is mounted on the seat tube
One of the main reasons for asking is I would like to change the
shifters (7 speed) to rapid / EZ fire and combined shifters / V brake
levers appear to be easier to come buy

Try SRAM Gripshift before you buy Rapidfire/EZfire. I did, and I'm a
total convert. You can trim the front changer and sweep through the
ratios at the back, neither of which is possible with Rapidfire/EZfire.

Works fine with my XT ones.. Haven't fitted the front yet, but the back will
allow traversing all eight sprockets in steps of up to 5 at a time.

...d

David Martin said:

Yes you do.. Read the description. There is no cable outer to reach the
V-brakes. Thinking about it, I have exactly the same problem on the
commuter. You need something either side of the callipers to force them
together. With just an inner you do not have that.

You will need to get a bolt on cable stop to fit your frame.

I haven't done all that much bike building, but I've just fitted
V-brakes to a 10-year old MTB frame that originally had canti brakes.

Anyway, how on earth did the canti brakes work without a rear cable
stop? It's the same underlying principle as V-brakes, innit?

--
jc

Remove the -not from email

Jeremy Collins said:

Anyway, how on earth did the canti brakes work without a
rear cable stop? It's the same underlying principle as
V-brakes, innit?

Some cantilever brakes run one piece of housing from the lever to a stop at
the front of the top tube. The cable then runs bare along the top tube,
through a guide at the top-tube/seat-tube junction, and straight to the
straddle cable yoke without encountering another stop. This saves a few
grams and simplifies frame construction a tad.

Older Konas used a clamp-on cable guide called a dog-collar. More commonly,
a guide tube was brazed to the frame.

James Thomson

David Martin said:

You will need to get a bolt on cable stop to fit your frame.

It's not straightforward on Steve's frame. It's likely the top tube is
ovalised, and tapers from front to rear. It's only round and of fairly
constant diameter for a short length some way ahead of the seat tube.
Better, simpler, neater and cheaper to run a single length of housing from
lever to caliper, as I suggested above.

James Thomson

in message <[email hidden]>, David Martin

(') said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

things appear
straight forward apart from the fact that there is no rear outer
brake cable stop.

You don't need one with Vs, the cable goes straight into the noodle
on the brake.

Yes you do.. Read the description. There is no cable outer to reach
the V-brakes. Thinking about it, I have exactly the same problem on
the commuter. You need something either side of the callipers to force
them together. With just an inner you do not have that.

So you run the cable housing direct from the lever.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This .sig subject to change without notice ]

James Thomson said:

Jeremy Collins said:

Anyway, how on earth did the canti brakes work without a
rear cable stop? It's the same underlying principle as
V-brakes, innit?

Some cantilever brakes run one piece of housing from the lever to a stop at
the front of the top tube. The cable then runs bare along the top tube,
through a guide at the top-tube/seat-tube junction, and straight to the
straddle cable yoke without encountering another stop. This saves a few
grams and simplifies frame construction a tad.

Ah, I think I can picture that, thanks.

--
jc

Remove the -not from email

Many thanks to all those who replied,

Yes the Kona has the so called dog collar on the seat tube as a cable
guide

One person mentioned SCRAM shifters and another mentions upgrading to
9 or 9 speed.

I thought I had read in a thread on this newsgroup that SCRAM
shifters were not compatible with Shimano derialeurs (spelling) as the
ratios were different, or did the poster mean to change the full set

Also sure I have seen a discussion regarding upgrading 7 to 8 or more
speed and that the rear drop outs are wider, choice is to have the
frame modded profesionaly or spring the rear triangle. Any comments?

I am sure the present shifters are not original as they are the cheap
Shimano ones that appear on all the budget bikes, those with a little
lever to switch from SIS to free movement.

The brakes, are Di-Combe at first I thought they were an addition but
the quill stem has an integral guide for the front brake cable to run
through, the pivots for the brakes look the same or similar to the "V"
brake mountings on my 2000 Marin, and the frame has adjacent to the
pivots a small triangle with three locating holes for the tension
spring to fit in however the pivots appear to have hexagon on them to
use a spanner to remove or fit, I think the hexagon would interfer
with the tension spring fitting through the holes.

Chainset is Shimano with the five arm centre spider, appears identical
to the gear on my friends 2000 Kona, I suppose I will have to measure
the PCD etc before ordering spares, the middle chain ring is worn out.

Bottom bracket is the non sealed verion as stated but on closer
examination the spindle appears to have a reverse scroll between the
frame and the pedal, I assume to wind the muck out

Maybe the best suggestion is to keep the bike original, I don't know

Once again

Many Thanks

Steve

in message <[email hidden]>, Steve Walford

(') said:

Many thanks to all those who replied,

Yes the Kona has the so called dog collar on the seat tube as a cable
guide

One person mentioned SCRAM shifters and another mentions upgrading to
9 or 9 speed.

I thought I had read in a thread on this newsgroup that SCRAM
shifters were not compatible with Shimano derialeurs (spelling) as the
ratios were different, or did the poster mean to change the full set

The SRAM shifters come in either Shimano-pull or SRAM-pull varieties -
you have to specify which you want.

Quoted message said:

Also sure I have seen a discussion regarding upgrading 7 to 8 or more
speed and that the rear drop outs are wider, choice is to have the
frame modded profesionaly or spring the rear triangle. Any comments?

Not something I'd do myself personally.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Sending your money to someone just because they've erected
;; a barrier of obscurity and secrets around the tools you
;; need to use your data does not help the economy or spur
;; innovation. - Waffle Iron Slashdot, June 16th, 2002

James Thomson said:

Steve Walford said:

I thought I had read in a thread on this newsgroup that SCRAM
shifters were not compatible with Shimano derialeurs (spelling)

Quoted message said:

Some SRAM shifters are Shimano compatible, while some require a SRAM
derailleur. Check out:

Many thanks for this I looked on various websites and realised some
SRAM shifters are marked for Shimano use

Quoted message said:

http://www.sram.com/

To be fair, you didn't mention initially that you had Shimano derailleurs.

Quoted message said:

Also sure I have seen a discussion regarding upgrading 7 to
8 or more speed and that the rear drop outs are wider, choice
is to have the frame modded profesionaly or spring the rear
triangle. Any comments?

That's usually true for road bikes, but not for MTBs. MTB rear ends
standardized at 135mm a long time ago. The great majority of 7-speed MTB
hubs are 135mm wide, just like 8- and 9-speeds.

I'll try the eight speed wheel from my Marin, once again thanks

Quoted message said:

I suggested considering 9-speed because you're replacing the shifters
anyway, and the other parts that make up the system (cassette and chain)
are consumables. 9-speed parts are now very affordable, work well, and are
likely to be widely available for a long time to come. There are some
potential complications depending on your current freehub.

My theory is that eight speed chain wears quicker than seven, so I
assume nine would wear quicker still. My experience is that no matter
what quality of chain I purchase the life depends on cleaning and
lubrication

I usually replace the rear cassette annualy and buy 4/5 chains I
alternate the chains after 800/1000 miles and then refit the 1st one
after I've been through them all once. Bike does around 8,000 miles
per year road / off road, quiet a bit on old railway tracks and the
surface of them plays havoc with chains

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am sure the present shifters are not original as they are the
cheap Shimano ones that appear on all the budget bikes,
those with a little lever to switch from SIS to free movement.

I wouldn't be so sure. Kona fitted topmount thumbshifters until they were
no longer made. Many riders preferred their simplicity.

Judging by your descripton of the rest of the bike, it sounds like you
might have a '93:

http://www.konaretro.com/articles/catalogues/1993/7.jpg

I looked at the site and I think you are correct, the 94 catalogue
mentions the Kilauea as upgraded / improved from last years model, but
when I looked at the 93 catalogue I couldn't find it mentioned.

Also I failed to mention the colour as dark blue, couldn't find this
in the catalogue either

Quoted message said:

The chainset (Sugino) doesn't fit the picture, but everything else does.

Quoted message said:

The brakes, are Di-Combe at first I thought they were an addition
but the quill stem has an integral guide for the front brake cable to
run through, the pivots for the brakes look the same or similar to
the "V" brake mountings on my 2000 Marin, and the frame has
adjacent to the pivots a small triangle with three locating holes
for the tension spring to fit in however the pivots appear to
have hexagon on them to use a spanner to remove or fit, I
think the hexagon would interfer with the tension spring fitting
through the holes.

The hexagon is part of the brake, not the frame. When you remove the
brakes, you'll have access to the spring holes in the frame.

Quoted message said:

Chainset is Shimano with the five arm centre spider, appears identical
to the gear on my friends 2000 Kona, I suppose I will have to measure
the PCD etc before ordering spares, the middle chain ring is worn out.

Only two 5-arm chainset standards have been common for MTBs - 110/74mm and
94/58mm (compact). Suntour (and a couple of others) used 94/56. If your
chainset is original to the bike, it'll be the former.

Quoted message said:

Bottom bracket is the non sealed verion as stated but on
closer examination the spindle appears to have a reverse
scroll between the frame and the pedal, I assume to wind
the muck out

I haven't seen that done on a spindle. Campagnolo used to rifle the cups of
some of their bottom brackets and pedals adjacent to the axle to draw muck
outwards. Neat idea.

Quoted message said:

Maybe the best suggestion is to keep the bike original,
I don't know.

Your call.

James Thomson

Once again thanks for all the constructive advice from all

Steve

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

Not something I'd do myself personally.

Ah...it's easy with a steel frame (which this is). All you need is a
good steel rule or a pair of vernier calipers, plus a long bit of wood
as a lever.