Knee vs. Marathon

(Sean Runnette) said:

1) since I was just hitting 30 miles a week with a long run of 15 miles, after almost 2 weeks off
how many miles per week should I be doing when I come back, and what would a good long run be?

Only your body can tell you that. You won't have lost any conditioning in a week though.

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2) with just over 2 months left (1 1/2 pre-taper), is it going to be possible to save my marathon?

With a good base mileage I'd say yes, but in your case I'm really not sure you can do it at all, and
certainly risk serious injury on only 30 MPW mileage. In my experience knee injuries often reoccur
like that, Keep at it.

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Thank you in advance for ANY advice.

sean

Quoted message said:

then I ran a half a block for a train and the pain was back with a vengeance. I talked with the
doc again today and he's prescribed a week off, with strengthening exercises.

Which were? To meet any particular need?

I'll be going to the gym for

Quoted message said:

the orbital trainer and the swimming pool in an effort to not lose everything I've built up thus
far. If the week off helps, I'm hoping to segue back into the training, but I've got a couple of
questions:

1) since I was just hitting 30 miles a week with a long run of 15 miles, after almost 2 weeks off
how many miles per week should I be doing when I come back, and what would a good long run be?

2) with just over 2 months left (1 1/2 pre-taper), is it going to be possible to save my marathon?

Thank you in advance for ANY advice.

sean

...some advice....when things just ain't going right....sometimes you just crash the computer and
"re-boot". Translation?...get a new fresh pair of shoes. Works wonders. Try some gel heels or
insoles while you're at it...mix things up, experiment. honestly...whenever i feel new knee/leg/feet
related pains...rearing their ugly head two or three times....those shoes are history, done, stick a
fork in them...it's over.

(Sean Runnette) said:

Howdy all,

I've been lurking for a while now, but haven't had anything to contribute as I'm pretty new to
actively training (as opposed to just "going for a run"😉. My goal was/is the Philadelphia Marathon
on Nov. 23rd. I was doing the Glover program for the advanced beginner (20 miles a week for three
months prior to starting the mileage increase and long runs). I was using the 19 week program that
the New York Marathon has posted, rather than the 16 week program that's in his book. I thought the
extra three weeks would help make the increases a little easier on my 37 year old body. And it's
been working, with the exception of this one knee... At the end of my 16 mile long run on the 3rd
of September (the program calls for 15, but I was feeling peppy), I entered the world of "runner's
knee". I laid off for a couple of days, and on the advice of my ortho, began running slowly (on a
new pair of shoes), combined with naproxen and icing. Things went well for a almost a week-I ran
almost 15 miles (no long run) with the pain gradually diminishing, and then I ran a half a block
for a train and the pain was back with a vengeance. I talked with the doc again today and he's
prescribed a week off, with strengthening exercises. I'll be going to the gym for the orbital
trainer and the swimming pool in an effort to not lose everything I've built up thus far. If the
week off helps, I'm hoping to segue back into the training, but I've got a couple of questions:

1) since I was just hitting 30 miles a week with a long run of 15 miles, after almost 2 weeks off
how many miles per week should I be doing when I come back, and what would a good long run be?

2) with just over 2 months left (1 1/2 pre-taper), is it going to be possible to save my marathon?

Thank you in advance for ANY advice.

sean

I too am working on my first marathon, and had some knee problems in the past that crept into my
training. Can't offer any "official" medical advice, just my experience.

When it started, I cut that run short and limped home. I have 2 knee supports, one with metal struts
for more lateral support, and one that is just neoprene. I took asprin for the inflammation, and
iced it at the end of every run for 20 minutes. I work on my feet, and wore the metal supported
brace there, which gave me some motion, but kept the knee mostly secure. After work, I'd give it 20
minutes of heat and another asprin. For my run in the morning, I wore the neoprene brace for a touch
of support, and just paid attention if any pain crept in (and made sure I didn't hit a bump funny
and twist it). After about 1 week, my knee felt fine, and had no real problems since. And I didn't
lose much in terms of training time.

Hope that helps.

(Globaldisc) said:

...some advice....when things just ain't going right....sometimes you just crash the computer and
"re-boot". Translation?...get a new fresh pair of shoes. Works wonders. Try some gel heels or
insoles while you're at it...mix things up, experiment. honestly...whenever i feel new
knee/leg/feet related pains...rearing their ugly head two or three times....those shoes are
history, done, stick a fork in them...it's over.

Always works for me too!

John R. Rybock said:

I too am working on my first marathon, and had some knee problems in the past that crept into my
training. Can't offer any "official" medical advice, just my experience.

When it started, I cut that run short and limped home. I have 2 knee supports, one with metal
struts for more lateral support, and one that is just neoprene. I took asprin for the inflammation,
and iced it at the end of every run for 20 minutes. I work on my feet, and wore the metal supported
brace there, which gave me some motion, but kept the knee mostly secure. After work, I'd give it 20
minutes of heat and another asprin. For my run in the morning, I wore the neoprene brace for a
touch of support, and just paid attention if any pain crept in (and made sure I didn't hit a bump
funny and twist it). After about 1 week, my knee felt fine, and had no real problems since. And I
didn't lose much in terms of training time.

Hope that helps.

These neoprene knee braces (non-metallic ones) are great for holding you together through a run.
I've used them on and off for years for my torn discus and stretced ligaments when they act up. Just
be careful about becoming dependant on them.

HOWEVER, do NOT under any circumstances wear either of these unless running or walking, never
during reat.

Sean

Ramp up the amount of cycling you are doing alongside the running, get more stretching done of the
quads and hamstrings and everywhere else as well. Get yourself to a physiotherapist as they
generally know more than doctors. Reallistically you have done the majority of the work. i did a
marathon on not much more the what you describe and got 4:14 but i was a bit of a hat and walked for
a couple of minutes every mile from 13-24. all is not lost mate! What time were you hoping for?
regards James

(James) said:

Sean

Ramp up the amount of cycling you are doing alongside the running, get more stretching done of the
quads and hamstrings and everywhere else as well.

Pure bad advice. Cycling kills my knees, and back, and ankles, etc etc so to give this advice so
generically is downright irresponsible.

Sean, I have been running with Runners Knee since August 6th (I recall the day well since it hurt
like hell and I, too, am training for a marathon and was scared to death about losing all the time I
already put into it, not to mention possibly missing the big event altogether). Since then I've done
six 14-mile runs, two 26-milers, and one 22-mile run.

I can't explain why this device works, but I'm glad that it has for
me. Perhaps it may help you as well:

roadrunnersports.comProductPg.jspOpen ↗
_SessionID=@@@@0070406520.1064000678@@@@&BV_EngineID=cadcifghgjhlbekgcgecfeedgf.0

or

kneeshop.comjumpers1.htmOpen ↗

I bought two and wear one on each knee for my long, long runs even though only my left knee is
really bothersome (for my more frequent, shorter runs, I just wear one on my left knee). I can feel
the right one tightening up some days but it hasn't really progressed to the point of any real pain
like my left knee did but just to be safe I put one on that leg, too, just for the 20+ mile runs.
Since I began to wear these bands, the pain has essentially disappeared and I can run as if nothing
had ever happened.

Good luck.

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[email hidden] (Sean Runnette) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Howdy all,

<snip>

At the end of my 16 mile long run on the 3rd of September (the program calls for 15, but I was
feeling peppy), I entered the world of "runner's knee".

<snip>

Thank you in advance for ANY advice.

sean

sean

Howdy again,

I'd like to thank the folks that replied to my original query for their patience (I've been off-line
for a bit) and their advice. It's almost been a week since the doctor told me that I was getting
into chondromalasia patella territory and to lay the hell off for a week. He has me doing leg lifts
(30 per day on the affected-left-leg) to strengthen the muscles on the inside of the leg and along
the knee, as he thought the misalignment of the knee-cap was being caused by the interior (inside
the leg) muscles being weaker than those outside the leg. I've also been icing it twice a day and
taking Alleve. At the gym, I've tried to stay away from anything that bounced or seemed to work the
knee, so it's been the orbital trainer for the most part, with a bit of cycling thrown in (I'd do
more,but I lent my helmet to a friend and I'm in a bicycle unfriendly part of New Jersey). Going
down the stairs no longer gives me trouble, or even the slightest twinge. And yesterday I was able
to do a sort of "long run" . 40 minutes on the orbital and then 12 miles of fairly arduous hiking in
the Wawayanda State Park on the NY/NJ border. I hadn't intended to go that far, but time got away
from us and the knee never complained. As for the shoes, I've decided to toss the New Balances I'd
been on for the last 300 miles (991s-my first pair) and go back to the Asics that've always treated
me right (2080s). I got in maybe 15 miles on them when this whole thing started, so they're pretty
fresh. I can't wait to get them dirty. After Thursday, when I'm cleared to run again, I'm going to
stay vigilant and at the first sign of trouble it's off to another doctor (and/or a physiotherapist
as recommended by James, who I should thank also for reminding me about stretching. I've added a
couple new stretches to the repertoire and I'm thinking about availing myself of the Yoga classes at
the gym). As for the braces and the bands, I'm still a bit reluctant… After two visits to the doc,
I'm only starting to understand what's going on with my knee. I sometimes have trouble opening beer
bottles-I think I'll need professional help with the orthotics and bands, etc. However, if things
don't improve after this week's layoff, then I'm definitely going to start trying new things-finding
a doctor who isn't trying to see 40 patients in a day and still get some quality time on the putting
green. Maybe I can find one who runs.

Thanks again.

sean