It never ends

Bill C said:

Here's a bit from a great local race that almost went under because a
town was sick of the typical [censored]:

Quoted:
There are a number of issues facing us that made it difficult to secure

a
permit. Among them: foul language, public urination, blocking the road
while
warming up, illegal parking, racers speeding in their cars to and from
the
races, and litter such as gel packets being thrown on the ground, and
flagrant yellow line violations. I find it sad that we have to address
these
issues, but these are serious matters which threaten the existence of
the
sport.

It really doesn't seem to matter how much we all try to limit this
[censored], it keeps happening, and when riders are penalized for this [censored],
all they do is [censored] about the promoters and officials.
Wake up folks!
Yeah I know I'm preaching to the choir here. The average RBR regular
actually gives a [censored] and takes care of the sport.
Bill C

I have said for years that we ought to ban those stupid little gel
packs. I cant believe a "green" sport like cycling keeps pushing those
little trash makers. No one wants to stuff that sticky little mess
back in their pocket.

Nobody ever complained about banana peels back in the day!

Oh, and then there is my "make them label there water bottles" rule.
Find one on the side of the road? Call the owner. Better, mail it
back to them with a 10 dollar fine.

Such a bunch of babies and prima donna's at the amateur level its
ridiculous.

J

jerry in vermont said:

I have said for years that we ought to ban those stupid little gel
packs. I cant believe a "green" sport like cycling keeps pushing those
little trash makers. No one wants to stuff that sticky little mess
back in their pocket.

What's green about the sport? The fact we don't draw crowds in the
U.S., so we aren't guilty of a bunch of motorists drivingto the event?
Most spectators and almost all competitors (always a few exceptions)
in a bike race drive there. The officials drive there. The motors
spend the day driving in circles, unless they get lost on the back
side of the crit (always a possibility).

Calling us 'green' would only be funnier if we actually drew as many
as the average SEC football game.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Quoted message said:

I have said for years that we ought to ban those stupid little gel
packs. I cant believe a "green" sport like cycling keeps pushing those
little trash makers. No one wants to stuff that sticky little mess
back in their pocket.

Nobody ever complained about banana peels back in the day!

Oh, and then there is my "make them label there water bottles" rule.
Find one on the side of the road? Call the owner. Better, mail it
back to them with a 10 dollar fine.

Such a bunch of babies and prima donna's at the amateur level its
ridiculous.

Crits are the sport of pigs.

I'm currently [censored] over the fact that I've been wanting to promote a
race in my hometown, but have been waiting to "do it right". Then,
along came a local racing team that somehow secured permission to do
the same thing, but on a much lower scale, and totally focused on their
selfish fattie masters team focus (gotta win the "cup", right?). They
gave the race ZERO in terms of PR and promotion, so the residents of
the town did not know to expect an "event" blocking their central
shopping district on a Suaturday afternoon. The residents and shop
owners were all LIVID, and are giving the township manager and mayor a
hell of a time over it. In addition, letters were written to the local
paper about racers urinating behind dry cleaner's businesses, nudity,
etc. Instead of involving the residents in some way, the race simply
borrowed their streets.

Now MY race has literally no chance of being approved. Thanks guys.

Bill C said:

Here's a bit from a great local race that almost went under because a
town was sick of the typical [censored]:

Quoted:
There are a number of issues facing us that made it difficult to secure

a
permit. Among them: foul language, public urination, blocking the road
while
warming up, illegal parking, racers speeding in their cars to and from
the
races, and litter such as gel packets being thrown on the ground, and
flagrant yellow line violations. I find it sad that we have to address
these
issues, but these are serious matters which threaten the existence of
the
sport.

It really doesn't seem to matter how much we all try to limit this
[censored], it keeps happening, and when riders are penalized for this [censored],
all they do is [censored] about the promoters and officials.
Wake up folks!
Yeah I know I'm preaching to the choir here. The average RBR regular
actually gives a [censored] and takes care of the sport.
Bill C

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm currently [censored] over the fact that I've been wanting to promote a
race in my hometown, but have been waiting to "do it right". Then,
along came a local racing team that somehow secured permission to do
the same thing, but on a much lower scale, and totally focused on their
selfish fattie masters team focus (gotta win the "cup", right?). They
gave the race ZERO in terms of PR and promotion, so the residents of
the town did not know to expect an "event" blocking their central
shopping district on a Suaturday afternoon. The residents and shop
owners were all LIVID, and are giving the township manager and mayor a
hell of a time over it. In addition, letters were written to the local
paper about racers urinating behind dry cleaner's businesses, nudity,
etc. Instead of involving the residents in some way, the race simply
borrowed their streets.

Now MY race has literally no chance of being approved. Thanks guys.

What things were you waiting for before you could "do it right"?

What processes would you have put in place that would have stopped the
urination and nudity?

Part of my motive is purely profit (for myself). I want sponsors and I
want the race to be a bonafide "event". I have a business plan,
budget, etc. Marketing and media plan and sponsorship "slots"
ready-to-go. I want to attract a decent crowd, and I want to give them
real action, much like the La Jolla Gran Prix races and the Subaru
short course crits of the 80's.

It takes a while to line-up sponsors willing to spend more than a few
thosand dollars. When I have a certain amount of confirmed interest,
then I reconnect with my township contacts and make it all happen.
Local business owners are more hip to the idea when they know they are
going to have patrons come in and spend money.

But there is little sex appeal to watching a bunch of masters fatties
riding around in circles with a [censored]-Chung CD playing near the finish
line.

My event would have rules of its own in regards to rider conduct.
They'll know in advance that pissing in public and getting changed
outside of their vehicle will not be tolerated. Showers and changing
rooms will also be available.

Frank Drackman said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm currently [censored] over the fact that I've been wanting to promote a
race in my hometown, but have been waiting to "do it right". Then,
along came a local racing team that somehow secured permission to do
the same thing, but on a much lower scale, and totally focused on their
selfish fattie masters team focus (gotta win the "cup", right?). They
gave the race ZERO in terms of PR and promotion, so the residents of
the town did not know to expect an "event" blocking their central
shopping district on a Suaturday afternoon. The residents and shop
owners were all LIVID, and are giving the township manager and mayor a
hell of a time over it. In addition, letters were written to the local
paper about racers urinating behind dry cleaner's businesses, nudity,
etc. Instead of involving the residents in some way, the race simply
borrowed their streets.

Now MY race has literally no chance of being approved. Thanks guys.

What things were you waiting for before you could "do it right"?

What processes would you have put in place that would have stopped the
urination and nudity?

Curtis L. Russell said:

jerry in vermont said:

I have said for years that we ought to ban those stupid little gel
packs. I cant believe a "green" sport like cycling keeps pushing those
little trash makers. No one wants to stuff that sticky little mess
back in their pocket.

What's green about the sport? The fact we don't draw crowds in the
U.S., so we aren't guilty of a bunch of motorists drivingto the event?
Most spectators and almost all competitors (always a few exceptions)
in a bike race drive there. The officials drive there. The motors
spend the day driving in circles, unless they get lost on the back
side of the crit (always a possibility).

Calling us 'green' would only be funnier if we actually drew as many
as the average SEC football game.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

i was just kind of kidding. though, about the green thing, here in new
england there are quite a few crunchies and collegiate tree hugger
types. I do hate those little sticky packets everywhere. At least a
power bar type thing you can stuff in your pocket.

On a side note, as I recall, Tom Masterson used to ride his bike to
races, towing a trailer, and camp in a tent, then win. Then pack up
and ride home. Back in the day when Geo Bullock would set up the
burrito stand after the race. Good times. Back when MTB racing was
fun. Things were pretty green back then. Before the SUV.

jerry in vermont wrote:

I do hate those little sticky packets everywhere. At least a

Quoted message said:

power bar type thing you can stuff in your pocket.

I biffed it in an MTB race recently and smashed a gel pack I was
carrying in my jersey. That was WAAAY messier than anything I could
suffer from putting an empty pack back in my jersey, and yet it wasn't
that big a deal to wash it out later.

There just is NO excuse for not packing your gel packet refuse (or
anything else you carry into the woods) out with you.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Part of my motive is purely profit (for myself). I want sponsors and I
want the race to be a bonafide "event". I have a business plan,
budget, etc. Marketing and media plan and sponsorship "slots"
ready-to-go. I want to attract a decent crowd, and I want to give them
real action, much like the La Jolla Gran Prix races and the Subaru
short course crits of the 80's.

It takes a while to line-up sponsors willing to spend more than a few
thosand dollars. When I have a certain amount of confirmed interest,
then I reconnect with my township contacts and make it all happen.
Local business owners are more hip to the idea when they know they are
going to have patrons come in and spend money.

But there is little sex appeal to watching a bunch of masters fatties
riding around in circles with a [censored]-Chung CD playing near the finish
line.

My event would have rules of its own in regards to rider conduct.
They'll know in advance that pissing in public and getting changed
outside of their vehicle will not be tolerated. Showers and changing
rooms will also be available.

Since you would be working directly with the municipality
could you work with the police to have urinators arrested?

--
Michael Press

You occupy a stronger initial position with the town when you go in
being able to (honestly) say that everyone will be well-behaved.
Police support is CRITICAL to getting an event approved, because before
a permit is issued, their opinion is sought-out by the council and town
manager.

That support is harder to get when you speak to the chief and ask him
to arrest urinators. "What urinators?" is the shocked response I'd
expect back from him.

Right now, I face a situation where the Chief of Police has outstanding
complaints (about public urination at the last event) in his file. In
his mind, the best way to prevent more, would be to simply nnot approve
future events. I figure I'll have to wait at least an additional year
for this specific venue.

If you ask me, on a domestic level, urination is a bigger threat to
American cycling's success than EPO is. One one hand, urination has
benefitted me, as I will forever hold the record for most victories at
a certain road race. But the race no longer exists, mostly due to the
complaints of one man who hated bike racers pissing in his yard.

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Part of my motive is purely profit (for myself). I want sponsors and I
want the race to be a bonafide "event". I have a business plan,
budget, etc. Marketing and media plan and sponsorship "slots"
ready-to-go. I want to attract a decent crowd, and I want to give them
real action, much like the La Jolla Gran Prix races and the Subaru
short course crits of the 80's.

It takes a while to line-up sponsors willing to spend more than a few
thosand dollars. When I have a certain amount of confirmed interest,
then I reconnect with my township contacts and make it all happen.
Local business owners are more hip to the idea when they know they are
going to have patrons come in and spend money.

But there is little sex appeal to watching a bunch of masters fatties
riding around in circles with a [censored]-Chung CD playing near the finish
line.

My event would have rules of its own in regards to rider conduct.
They'll know in advance that pissing in public and getting changed
outside of their vehicle will not be tolerated. Showers and changing
rooms will also be available.

Since you would be working directly with the municipality
could you work with the police to have urinators arrested?

--
Michael Press

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have said for years that we ought to ban those stupid little gel
packs. I cant believe a "green" sport like cycling keeps pushing those
little trash makers. No one wants to stuff that sticky little mess
back in their pocket.

I stick back in my pocket. What's the big deal? I wash my jersey after each
use. That stuff easily comes out in the wash. What is annoying is the top of
the gel pack. I like what Clif has done with the litter leash. I wish others
would copy them.
----------------
Alex

Alex Rodriguez said:

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have said for years that we ought to ban those stupid little gel
packs. I cant believe a "green" sport like cycling keeps pushing those
little trash makers. No one wants to stuff that sticky little mess
back in their pocket.

I stick back in my pocket. What's the big deal? I wash my jersey after each
use. That stuff easily comes out in the wash. What is annoying is the top of
the gel pack. I like what Clif has done with the litter leash. I wish others
would copy them.

Or just tuck it back under the hem of your shorts. You're gonna
wash your shorts after the race, right? I'm with you on the litter
leash. Or use one of those little gel bottles and don't throw it
away.

Once I was scoring an MTB race and a woman rode by the
start/finish with what looked like a big red blood drip on her
thigh. We were kind of worried - riders would regularly stay
in the race after wounding themselves, once the organizer
had to run after a racer and stop him so he could clean up
the blood dripping from his forehead. It turned to be a cranberry
gel that she had tucked under her shorts hem and had exploded.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You occupy a stronger initial position with the town when you go in
being able to (honestly) say that everyone will be well-behaved.
Police support is CRITICAL to getting an event approved, because before
a permit is issued, their opinion is sought-out by the council and town
manager.

That support is harder to get when you speak to the chief and ask him
to arrest urinators. "What urinators?" is the shocked response I'd
expect back from him.

Right now, I face a situation where the Chief of Police has outstanding
complaints (about public urination at the last event) in his file. In
his mind, the best way to prevent more, would be to simply nnot approve
future events. I figure I'll have to wait at least an additional year
for this specific venue.

If you ask me, on a domestic level, urination is a bigger threat to
American cycling's success than EPO is. One one hand, urination has
benefitted me, as I will forever hold the record for most victories at
a certain road race. But the race no longer exists, mostly due to the
complaints of one man who hated bike racers pissing in his yard.

We recently lost a road race in a town that I own a vacation home. It is a
small town in the mountains and is completely dependent on visitors and
festivals. The people are usually great about disruptions but the road race
was too much. My neighbors knew I was involved with bike racing and talked
to me before filing their complaints and it was hard to argue with them.
Who could defend public urination, littering, blocking roads, and being a
general pain in the ass? The mountain bike race is still a great success
but I don't think that anyone will propose a road race for a long time.

It really is a shame because road events can have a real festival feel. I
know that to be a successful racer you have to be somewhat egocentric but
don't understand how so many of the riders can be so short sighted.

Bill C said:

It really doesn't seem to matter how much we all try to limit this
[censored], it keeps happening, and when riders are penalized for this [censored],
all they do is [censored] about the promoters and officials.
Wake up folks!

Yes dumbass,

this is the same old, same old. it's too bad. fines and penalties do
work, but they are postscriptive, ie. after the damage is already done.
plus, you can't possibly catch every violator, so you're required to
make an example of some people.

but also part of it, the bike race never gets a break. i've had
complaints from drivers about rude cyclists on our course on a day when
there is no race. as if we are somehow responsible for the conduct of
every rider in the vicinity. we clean our race venue because we know
the races will get blamed for any litter.

it's inevitable that a large gathering of people is going to result in
some litter and inconvenience. something like the santa claus parade
causes a huge traffic mess and leaves behind tons of trash, but somehow
there isn't a huge demand to have it shut down. bike races get shut
down for much less.

a reply below makes some good points. for a bike race to prosper it
needs to bring something to the table for the community. either money
or charity or community involvement. most races fail to do that, so the
community has no reason to put up with it.

Quoted message said:

Bill C said:

It really doesn't seem to matter how much we all try to limit this
[censored], it keeps happening, and when riders are penalized for this [censored],
all they do is [censored] about the promoters and officials.
Wake up folks!

Yes dumbass,

this is the same old, same old. it's too bad. fines and penalties do
work, but they are postscriptive, ie. after the damage is already done.
plus, you can't possibly catch every violator, so you're required to
make an example of some people.

but also part of it, the bike race never gets a break. i've had
complaints from drivers about rude cyclists on our course on a day when
there is no race. as if we are somehow responsible for the conduct of
every rider in the vicinity. we clean our race venue because we know
the races will get blamed for any litter.

We do the clean-up afterwards too, but the pre race stuff has been a
headache the last few years. One of our races has a well established
and known course, and riders training on it have acted like jackasses
leading to problems even before the race happens. Riding 4 abreast
across the lane on a tight 2 lane road and then flipping of the cars is
pretty typical. That's happened to us when we were checking the course
weeks before the race. It's only a handful of riders who act like
[censored], but they seem to do it all the time. Doesn't seem to matter
if it's a race or training ride.

Quoted message said:

it's inevitable that a large gathering of people is going to result in
some litter and inconvenience. something like the santa claus parade
causes a huge traffic mess and leaves behind tons of trash, but somehow
there isn't a huge demand to have it shut down. bike races get shut
down for much less.

a reply below makes some good points. for a bike race to prosper it
needs to bring something to the table for the community. either money
or charity or community involvement. most races fail to do that, so the
community has no reason to put up with it.

Exactly, you've got to link it to the community and get them involved.
Our crit was a fundraiser for a program that provided outdoor access to
challenged people. We were able to feature some really good open
handcyclist races that really worked well here.
The whole approach generated tons of local goodwill and made it much
easier to deal with the hiccups.
Bill C

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bill C said:

It really doesn't seem to matter how much we all try to limit this
[censored], it keeps happening, and when riders are penalized for this [censored],
all they do is [censored] about the promoters and officials.
Wake up folks!

Yes dumbass,

this is the same old, same old. it's too bad. fines and penalties do
work, but they are postscriptive, ie. after the damage is already done.
plus, you can't possibly catch every violator, so you're required to
make an example of some people.

but also part of it, the bike race never gets a break. i've had
complaints from drivers about rude cyclists on our course on a day when
there is no race. as if we are somehow responsible for the conduct of
every rider in the vicinity. we clean our race venue because we know
the races will get blamed for any litter.

We do the clean-up afterwards too, but the pre race stuff has been a
headache the last few years. One of our races has a well established
and known course, and riders training on it have acted like jackasses
leading to problems even before the race happens. Riding 4 abreast
across the lane on a tight 2 lane road and then flipping of the cars is
pretty typical. That's happened to us when we were checking the course
weeks before the race. It's only a handful of riders who act like
[censored], but they seem to do it all the time. Doesn't seem to matter
if it's a race or training ride.

Has any promoter/licensing authority ever banned riders for things like
littering, nudity, urination, blocking roads?

Quoted message said:

Exactly, you've got to link it to the community and get them involved.
Our crit was a fundraiser for a program that provided outdoor access to
challenged people.

that's one way to do it, but you could also have a scenario where the
race is desirable for local businesses or is an attraction itself.

the bottom line is: if you're imposing on people you could get shut out
for whatever frivolous reason. if you're delivering something of value
then you have more pull.

Scott said:

jerry in vermont wrote:

I do hate those little sticky packets everywhere. At least a

Quoted message said:

power bar type thing you can stuff in your pocket.

I biffed it in an MTB race recently and smashed a gel pack I was
carrying in my jersey. That was WAAAY messier than anything I could
suffer from putting an empty pack back in my jersey, and yet it wasn't
that big a deal to wash it out later.

There just is NO excuse for not packing your gel packet refuse (or
anything else you carry into the woods) out with you.

I see much more gel packet littering in MTB races than on the road. I
suppose it's because it's more difficult to stow it away in a packet,
but I just can't understand littering in the woods.

Bret (who got a glimpse of the aftermath of Scott's biff)

In article <[email hidden]>,

amit said:

Quoted message said:

Exactly, you've got to link it to the community and get them involved.
Our crit was a fundraiser for a program that provided outdoor access to
challenged people.

that's one way to do it, but you could also have a scenario where the
race is desirable for local businesses or is an attraction itself.

the bottom line is: if you're imposing on people you could get shut out
for whatever frivolous reason. if you're delivering something of value
then you have more pull.

I think the tricky thing is to find a way to make it apparent that what you're
delivering outweighs whatever imposition they my perceive your event to be. Not
always easy to do (as you say: "you could get shut out for whatever frivolous
reason"😉.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?