isometrics

it looks like there is no doubt that isometric training will increase strength even more than normal weight lifting. more strength = more power
i am looking forward to see what kind of gains i can make this winter, in regards to sprint power.

velomanct said:

it looks like there is no doubt that isometric training will increase strength even more than normal weight lifting. more strength = more power
i am looking forward to see what kind of gains i can make this winter, in regards to sprint power.

I personally don't have much faith in isometrics as they seem to produce mostly gains in static strength and don't help much in the concentric or eccentric muscle contractions.

velomanct, the general consensus is isometrics don't improve concentric strength. In my personal opinion, it does work at least sometimes (it improved my deadlift and grip), however I have found it has minimal to no carryover to higher velocity movements like sprinting, cycling or cleaning a barbell.

Isometrics are also extremely stressful on the body so I would recommend only doing them every 2 weeks... per bodypart, with concentric exercises done inbetween.

velomanct said:

would isometric training be of benefit for sprint power?
maybe in combination with weight training?
when you are doing squats, you hold the weight steady for 10 seconds midway through the squat motion.
according to runquicker.com, isometric training will improve strength for sprint running, so i would assume it would improve cycling sprints?

http://www.runquicker.com/isometrictraining.htm

anybody have an opinion on this?

The organisation that produce that isometric package for running, golf and basketball are producing a package for cycling soon.

They claim there is a carry over from static power to velocity.

You can do isometrics on an indoor training road bike (with brakes). You use the rear brake to lock the rear wheel. The pedal can be locked at the required angle during the downstroke power phase. I understand that 15 degree adjustments of isometric force through the power stroke will benefit the total power stroke. It is as specific an exercise as you can get with increasing power at the right joint angle. Whether this power is transferred at joint velocities of 100 + rpms is the question.

You have to be careful of blood pressure during the exercise, if you have that sort of problem, and the possibility of calf cramps when riding.

There relatively little power transfer to high velocity movements even at 2 m/s, and when there are much better ways to improve power I don't see the reason to waste time. Olympic lifters train for [censored] and clean and jerk by doing [censored] and clean & jerk mainly, they never do isometrics. They have been known to do plyometrics. Pk power outputs of top Olympic lifters have been measured at over 5500 watts pk while snatching about 200 kg. Bottom line, Olympic lifts and plyometrics increase power the fastest and the most. OL's will build muscle, plyo's won't, but plyo's will get that muscle to fire as fast as it can possibly go. Overall for leg mass building, relatively slow deep back squats for 8-12 reps are the best.

Working isometrics on a bike sounds retarded. The heel doesn't rest on the pedal in normal cycling so maximum force cannot be generated anyway.

the core of my off season training is going to be normal weight training(lots of squats), plyometrics, and fixed gear road rides. i might experiment with the isometrics, but not at the exclusion of normal lifting. with regards to weight training, i am looking to get my legs as big as possible(increase cross sectional area), not develope fast twitch muscle(moving heavy weight fast will likely increase my chance of injury). according to a couple articles i read, isometrics tear your muscles down more, which will lead to more hypertrophy. i am working on my explosiveness through the plyometrics, and high rpm drills.

i will just have to see what works for me.

velomanct said:

would isometric training be of benefit for sprint power?
maybe in combination with weight training?
when you are doing squats, you hold the weight steady for 10 seconds midway through the squat motion.
according to runquicker.com, isometric training will improve strength for sprint running, so i would assume it would improve cycling sprints?

runquicker.comisometrictraining.htmOpen ↗

anybody have an opinion on this?

I must reiterate that strength training does not improve cycling performance in already trained cyclists (track racing and prior significant muscle imbalances/core deficiencies excluded). Cycling is not a sport of strength but one of power and endurance. And although power is the combination of force (strength) and time, improving ones strength in the squat, for example, will not transfer to improved cycling performance (although you may win the start off the line to the first corner contest).
Isometric training will improve your anerobic capacity and isometric strength in the specific joint angle that is trained. There are many studies showing minimal to zero carry over to concentric and eccentric contractions in a strength training scenario, which will only be less likely in a power/endurance scenario (any gains at all are due to the subjects being untrained, and as such any training will induce some effect).
I must also point out that there are several problems with the article that was aluded to; the primary one is that slow twitch muscle fibers have the least to do with strength than either of the fast twitch fibers. If what the article says were true, just about this one point, then endurance athelets would be the stongest people out there.
But I digress....

Smartt/RST said:

I must reiterate that strength training does not improve cycling performance in already trained cyclists (track racing and prior significant muscle imbalances/core deficiencies excluded). Cycling is not a sport of strength but one of power and endurance. And although power is the combination of force (strength) and time, improving ones strength in the squat, for example, will not transfer to improved cycling performance (although you may win the start off the line to the first corner contest).
Isometric training will improve your anerobic capacity and isometric strength in the specific joint angle that is trained. There are many studies showing minimal to zero carry over to concentric and eccentric contractions in a strength training scenario, which will only be less likely in a power/endurance scenario (any gains at all are due to the subjects being untrained, and as such any training will induce some effect).
I must also point out that there are several problems with the article that was aluded to; the primary one is that slow twitch muscle fibers have the least to do with strength than either of the fast twitch fibers. If what the article says were true, just about this one point, then endurance athelets would be the stongest people out there.
But I digress....

i guess i forgot to mention that i am training to become a better track sprinter.

since making this post, i have become more skeptical about isometrics benefits for strength gains.

Here are some isometric links:
blackwellpublishing.comabstract.aspOpen ↗
jap.physiology.org296Open ↗
weighttrainersunited.comisometric.htmlOpen ↗
jp.physoc.org649Open ↗

Also to add to this... isometrics do not add much (if any) bodyweight yet, build a fair amount of strength. I feel I'm slightly faster and can more easily get to top speed (less effort). Hard to explain. I would start with 10s contractions x 10 sets x 1-3 excercises 3-7 days a week @ about 60-70% max effort. You do not need to go all out to get results and this reduces blodd pressure needs as well.

I recomend the type were an un-movable object is used. Also the most stretched position seems to have most benefits as well as a sticking point/ or a position utilized in your activity. Say you want to strengthen your calves do the stretched position and then a position that closely resembles a position on your pedals.

Here some eccentric training studies as I think this is an important area as well (takes longer to recover from though):
ncbi.nlm.nih.govquery.fcgiOpen ↗
jeb.biologists.org2211Open ↗
biomed.gerontologyjournals.orgM419Open ↗
jp.physoc.org571Open ↗

I would only do these isometrics daily in the off season. Once racing season starts maybe 1-2x per week (isometrics). No weights. No eccentrics. Just biking.

-Keith

"Olympic lifters train for [censored] and clean and jerk by doing [censored] and clean & jerk mainly, they never do isometrics"

Past Olers used isometrics and some still do. Is it the main part of their training?..no. The Chinese train using isometrics, eccentrics, squats, DLs as well as the [censored] and c&j. In the lighter weight classes these guys and girls dominate. We (USA) used to dominate as well (isometrics were used then as well). Martial artists use isometrics. Arm wrestlers use isometrics in their training, not exclusively, and these guys are explosive/lightning fast.

That website in question is questionable in my opinion as well.

The person who described the locking the pedals in place has a real good idea. Mainly for the off season but, still a godd Idea.

-Keith

thorfinn said:

Here are some isometric links:
blackwellpublishing.comabstract.aspOpen ↗
jap.physiology.org296Open ↗
weighttrainersunited.comisometric.htmlOpen ↗
jp.physoc.org649Open ↗

Also to add to this... isometrics do not add much (if any) bodyweight yet, build a fair amount of strength. I feel I'm slightly faster and can more easily get to top speed (less effort). Hard to explain. I would start with 10s contractions x 10 sets x 1-3 excercises 3-7 days a week @ about 60-70% max effort. You do not need to go all out to get results and this reduces blodd pressure needs as well.

I recomend the type were an un-movable object is used. Also the most stretched position seems to have most benefits as well as a sticking point/ or a position utilized in your activity. Say you want to strengthen your calves do the stretched position and then a position that closely resembles a position on your pedals.

Here some eccentric training studies as I think this is an important area as well (takes longer to recover from though):
ncbi.nlm.nih.govquery.fcgiOpen ↗
jeb.biologists.org2211Open ↗
biomed.gerontologyjournals.orgM419Open ↗
jp.physoc.org571Open ↗

I would only do these isometrics daily in the off season. Once racing season starts maybe 1-2x per week (isometrics). No weights. No eccentrics. Just biking.

-Keith

thanks for the info.

my training is going to be simular to what a kilo rider would do. not 100% sprint training, because i still want to do some crits. i am going to try the isometrics, but i am definitely still going to do regular weight training.

thorfinn said:

Here are some isometric links:
blackwellpublishing.comabstract.aspOpen ↗
jap.physiology.org296Open ↗
weighttrainersunited.comisometric.htmlOpen ↗
jp.physoc.org649Open ↗

Also to add to this... isometrics do not add much (if any) bodyweight yet, build a fair amount of strength. I feel I'm slightly faster and can more easily get to top speed (less effort). Hard to explain. I would start with 10s contractions x 10 sets x 1-3 excercises 3-7 days a week @ about 60-70% max effort. You do not need to go all out to get results and this reduces blodd pressure needs as well.

I recomend the type were an un-movable object is used. Also the most stretched position seems to have most benefits as well as a sticking point/ or a position utilized in your activity. Say you want to strengthen your calves do the stretched position and then a position that closely resembles a position on your pedals.

Here some eccentric training studies as I think this is an important area as well (takes longer to recover from though):
ncbi.nlm.nih.govquery.fcgiOpen ↗
jeb.biologists.org2211Open ↗
biomed.gerontologyjournals.orgM419Open ↗
jp.physoc.org571Open ↗

I would only do these isometrics daily in the off season. Once racing season starts maybe 1-2x per week (isometrics). No weights. No eccentrics. Just biking.

-Keith

I hope this topic is still of interest, as I have been away for a while and have been unable to respond in a timely manner.
As to the references above, none of these studies (or comments of one individual) have any relation to trained cyclists or cycling performance. One cannot take the results of a study on (eg) untrained volunters and transfer them to trained cyclists. Your age, sex, and previous training history all greatly effect how a training program or technique will effect you and your subsequent performance.
What we can take from the studies is an understanding of why a certain methodolgy obtained the results that it did. In this case, it takes us back to training specificity. Isometric strength training improves static strength relatively specifically to the joint angle trained. It does not necessarily improve a muscles ability to generate force quickly or repeatedly; and I would speculate, based on performance research in general (i.e.: the better you are at something, the less cross training improves performance), that the more trained you are as a cyclist, the less likely isometrics will transfer to dynamic improvements.
So, should you spend time training static strength to improve dynamic power/endurance? Or should you train dynamic power/endurance to improve dynamic power/endurance?

Smartt/RST said:

I hope this topic is still of interest, as I have been away for a while and have been unable to respond in a timely manner.
As to the references above, none of these studies (or comments of one individual) have any relation to trained cyclists or cycling performance. One cannot take the results of a study on (eg) untrained volunters and transfer them to trained cyclists. Your age, sex, and previous training history all greatly effect how a training program or technique will effect you and your subsequent performance.
What we can take from the studies is an understanding of why a certain methodolgy obtained the results that it did. In this case, it takes us back to training specificity. Isometric strength training improves static strength relatively specifically to the joint angle trained. It does not necessarily improve a muscles ability to generate force quickly or repeatedly; and I would speculate, based on performance research in general (i.e.: the better you are at something, the less cross training improves performance), that the more trained you are as a cyclist, the less likely isometrics will transfer to dynamic improvements.
So, should you spend time training static strength to improve dynamic power/endurance? Or should you train dynamic power/endurance to improve dynamic power/endurance?

The question is, do isometrics improve muscle size/strength more than typical weight lifting? Of course isometrics won't train your muscles to fire rapidly. But if they can produce more muscle gains than would be otherwise possible, then they could be of benefit because of the increased cross sectional area. (goal of improved sprint power)

velomanct said:

The question is, do isometrics improve muscle size/strength more than typical weight lifting? Of course isometrics won't train your muscles to fire rapidly. But if they can produce more muscle gains than would be otherwise possible, then they could be of benefit because of the increased cross sectional area. (goal of improved sprint power)

I like to play soccer and throw weight for height (highland games) and isometrics helped me a lot. I added no other excercieses. Actually to be scientific I did eliminate some...I threw less, I sprinted less both volume and frequency. So, do they help...In my opinion yes. I have read enough studies and tried it and seen results myself. It trains all areas of force throughout the movement (you have to figure out how to do it though). I'm not pro level at either thing but, I'm a big guy (in weight) and I'm always one of the fastest on my soccer team (currently 0-30 div. but was in div.1 mens league). Usually I do not take into account what others have done but, threw it in anyway.

Smartt/RST is very correct...Specitivity is king. But, what seperates the best from rest is usually technique, desire, and something like genetics. Using the bike with pedals in stationary position is an excellent way to teach your body to improve force (both rate and limit) at that angle. Simply move the pedals a bit and you have a new excercise...

I would not replace a sprint session with an isometric session but, a few isos before your sprint session and off days will not hurt and should help (in my opinion).

The only problem I have with specitivity is football players have to lift weights or do excercises that get them stronger and bigger while maintaining or improveing their speed and skills. So, specitivity is not enought for football why is it so for bikers. (Run) Sprinters use squats, DL, even benchpress and other lifts to help with general strength. Also various stretches. Not specific. Endurance runners usually add track work to their workouts and at the taper but, sprinting and jogging are very different so, specitivity is not enough here as well.

I would like to agree (I think) that thinking bench presses are going to add speed to your biking you will be upset if you choose this route. Also, if you put more prioirity on weight training you will become stronger with weights and see very little if not a reduction in performance on the bike. It is a delicate balance. It happens to football players it happened to me...