Is periodization dead?

LT Intolerant said:

Yesterday I purchased a training plan (12 week - 270 FTP plan) - on Trainingpeaks.com. The individual workouts look great, but here is my issue.

As I mapped out the weekly hours I didn't notice any pattern of increasing vloume/low intensity, or increasing intensity/decreasing volume. The hours per week look as follows...

Week Hours
1 13.8
2 12.5
3 11.9
4 12.8
5 15.1
6 10.5
7 12.6
8 8.0
9 12.9
10 11.3
11 12.3
12 15.5

So is periodization dead? Are Joe Friel's Cycling Bible recommendations for weekly training hours (page 112 of the Bible) out-of-date? I'm also curious as to why the big drop in hours in week 8?

Thanks for any thoughts you might have.

gene r

The drop to 8 hours is probably to lower volume (and intensity) for a recovery period.

The number of hours isn't really what changes for most of us who use something resembling a periodized approach except if you're doing lots of slow endurance then your total volume of training will probably be higher-for most people this is during the winter.

Periodization refers more to the points of emphasis, or main areas of training focus from one period to another. Examples of the areas of emphasis could be slow endurance, strength, tempo, threshold, VO2max, anaerobic capacity, sprinting, speed, speed endurance, overall training load.

The periods might be called something like off-season or transition period, winter preparation or pre-season preparation, early season, early race season or period, peak racing period, season peak, recovery or restoration, and around again. Lots of otehr names around for the different periods. Some people use very distinct periods, others just kind of blend one into the next. Each phase or period more or less prepares you for the next period until you're at peak.

Fair enough Warren. Maybe I'm mis-stating my question. In Friel's book he clearly outlines a program of...

base period: high hours - low intensity
build period: moderate hours - higher intensity
peak/race: low hours - very high intensity
transition: low hours - low intensity

The Friel program clearly has peaks and then recovery built into 4 week micro cycles and longer 1-2-3 month macro cycles

In the Hunter Allan (the author of the program) 12 week program I just purchased I just purchased from TP there is no obvious pattern. It looks like 12 weeks of random hours. I guess H. Allan has a method to his madness but it sure isn't obvious to me.

Thanks.

gene r

LT Intolerant said:

Fair enough Warren. Maybe I'm mis-stating my question. In Friel's book he clearly outlines a program of...

base period: high hours - low intensity
build period: moderate hours - higher intensity
peak/race: low hours - very high intensity
transition: low hours - low intensity

The Friel program clearly has peaks and then recovery built into 4 week micro cycles and longer 1-2-3 month macro cycles

In the Hunter Allan (the author of the program) 12 week program I just purchased I just purchased from TP there is no obvious pattern. It looks like 12 weeks of random hours. I guess H. Allan has a method to his madness but it sure isn't obvious to me.

Thanks.

gene r

Periodization was never alive to begin with, at least as a proven science or even a theory backed up with a lot of evidence. it's just one way to put together a program.

LT Intolerant said:

Fair enough Warren. Maybe I'm mis-stating my question. In Friel's book he clearly outlines a program of...

base period: high hours - low intensity
build period: moderate hours - higher intensity
peak/race: low hours - very high intensity
transition: low hours - low intensity

The Friel program clearly has peaks and then recovery built into 4 week micro cycles and longer 1-2-3 month macro cycles

That is what most would call a traditional, periodized approach, and it's worked well for many, many people. More recently, among some really good coaches and others during the last 10-15+ years the approach has modified somewhat away from many weeks of just low intensity. Now we see some intensity mixed in to even the earliest weeks of the annual training plan.

Used in moderation there really isn't a penalty for doing some intensity early on and there are some benefits. The amount of intensity still tends to build through the racing season until peaking when intensity is usually the highest and volume may be somewhat low, depending on the goal event(s).

LT Intolerant said:

In the Hunter Allan (the author of the program) 12 week program I just purchased I just purchased from TP there is no obvious pattern. It looks like 12 weeks of random hours. I guess H. Allan has a method to his madness but it sure isn't obvious to me.

Thanks.

gene r

Without seeing that plan it's hard to comment on it. What do you mean by "random hours"? What sort of pattern would you expect or want to see that isn't there?

Without seeing that plan it's hard to comment on it. What do you mean by "random hours"? What sort of pattern would you expect or want to see that isn't there?[/QUOTE]
A 12-week Friel build/peak/race block of training based on 500 hours of yearly training looks as follows...

Build (4 weeks) = 12.5 hours , 12.5 hours, 12.5 hours, 7 hours
Build (4 weeks) = 12 hours, 12 hours, 12 hours, 7 hours
Peak (2 weeks) = 10.5 hours, 8.5 hours
Race (2 weeks +) = 7 hours

What I see in Friel's plan is a gradual taper leading to a peak.

The TP plan that I purchased has the sequence I cited earlier, namely...

weeks 1-12 (I've rounded off the hours) = 14 hours, 13 hours, 12 hours, 13 hours, 15 hours, 11 hours, 13 hours, 8 hours, 13 hours, 11 hours, 12, hours, 16 hours

I'm not a math genius but in eyeballing these numbers I see no pattern or rationale for why these hours during these weeks. Why if I'm peaking am I riding 16 hours in week 12, the week of my supposed event? Shouldn't I be tapering to be as fresh as possible?

You asked me what I would expect to see? I guess I would expect to see something more like theThe Friel plan. It just seems to make more sense to me. You build a large base and then taper to consolidte fitness and remain fresh.

I'm not saying that Friel is right and Hunter Allen is wrong, the Friel plan is what I've been conditioned to expect over the years. I am however looking for some explanation as to why Hunter Allen would prescribe the hours he does when he does.

I hope I've provided enough detail.

gene r

LT Intolerant said:

The TP plan that I purchased has the sequence I cited earlier, namely...

weeks 1-12 (I've rounded off the hours) = 14 hours, 13 hours, 12 hours, 13 hours, 15 hours, 11 hours, 13 hours, 8 hours, 13 hours, 11 hours, 12, hours, 16 hours

I'm not a math genius but in eyeballing these numbers I see no pattern or rationale for why these hours during these weeks. Why if I'm peaking am I riding 16 hours in week 12, the week of my supposed event? Shouldn't I be tapering to be as fresh as possible?

You asked me what I would expect to see? I guess I would expect to see something more like theThe Friel plan. It just seems to make more sense to me. You build a large base and then taper to consolidte fitness and remain fresh.

I don't disagree with your expectation. That approach can work really well.

It really depends on what is being done in all those hours. The final week being 16 hours, the most of any week, I don't understand at all unless the plan is intended to get you to peak a week or two after that especially hard week of 16 hours, or you are expected to race many hours that week...?

The other hours look okay but the total training load is really what's most important. If you have a week with only 8 hours but it's filled with lots of intensity that would probably be a harder load than a moderate week with less intensity and with more hours spent at lower intensity.

As for your own peaking week, that's the downside of generic training plans-they're not specific for your schedule or your specific abilities and how you respond to various types of training stimuli. Hopefully the plan will still be useful for you even though it's not perfect for you.

FWIW, my own training plans, which are done by my coach, tend to have similar amounts of hours for most weeks, outside of rest weeks or tapering weeks. It's what I do during those hours that generates the varying amounts of total training load.

Thanks for the insight Warren. Always helpful.

BTW who is your coach? I'm thinking about going that route.

Thanks again.

gene

LT Intolerant said:

Thanks for the insight Warren. Always helpful.

BTW who is your coach? I'm thinking about going that route.

Thanks again.

gene

You're welcome, thanks. My coach is Max Testa. He's associated with AthletiCamps.

WarrenG said:

You're welcome, thanks. My coach is Max Testa. He's associated with AthletiCamps.

Wow! I'm impressed and intimitated! :eek: Testa is THE man!

I'll check out AthletiCamps on-line. Maybe they have someone who works with slow old guys like me.

Thanks again Warren.

gene

From what i've heard/read periodisation is very important but very badly understood. Basically you have to do a detailed study every time you want to work out which way to do two work outs to get the most out of both of them. EG, most people here will be doing FT training then do some VO2 max training. But perhaps wouldn't it be better to do some VO2 max training first, as this will help with the FT training. Or at least questions along those lines. I'll go find an article on it.

LT Intolerant said:

It looks like 12 weeks of random hours. I guess H. Allan has a method to his madness but it sure isn't obvious to me.

Have you calculated the TSS/week with this program 😉 I suspect you're just not looking in the right place to see the pattern.

beerco said:

Have you calculated the TSS/week with this program 😉 I suspect you're just not looking in the right place to see the pattern.

I was just going to say, for a powermeter user, hours are not usually a very robust metric to measure training load.

Also, sometimes a plan is drawn up utilizing blocks that don't happen to fit neatly into 7 day weeks, but it's still presented in a weekly format for ease of reading. Just speculating, since I've never seen one of these pre-fab plans (and I don't sell any of my own either).