Installing Campy Centaur BB

Kovie said:

There's a Campy tool with wrench flats that can be used instead, but it's hard to find and sells
for $45. The Park tool sells for around $8 (BBT-4). There's also a Tacx Cartridge BB Tool that
appears to do the same thing and goes for $25-$30, but I don't know much about it or how easy it
is to find. Would either of these tools be better than the less expensive Park? (Seems kind of
strange though to spend more for the tool than for the component it's meant to be used with!)

The Tacx T4425 is excellent. (That is definitely the model you need: I've got the card that came
with mine infront of me). It engages well and screws into the spindle to hold itself on and
completely prevent slippage. Definitely worth buying if you intend to fit/remove Centaur BBs more
than once or twice in your life, otherwise might as well get LBS to do the job for you, IMO.

Quoted message said:

Alternatively, is there a Chorus BB that can be used with a Centaur triple 10s crank?

No, there aren't any 111 or 115.5mm Chorus BB's.

~PB

Thanks Pete. Looks like this is the tool to get if I want to do this right. I still think it's crazy
that the tool should cost more than the part it's meant to work on, but I suppose this isn't the
only instance of this (spark plugs, headsets, etc.).

Another route would be to get a Shimano BB/triple crankset, most likely Ultegras, which require a
less expensive tool. But that would create a mixed Campy/Shimano drivetrain, which I'd like to
avoid. And given that Shimano BBs cost a bit more than Campy's, this would effectively negate any
price savings. Any other advantage in going Ultegra on the BB/cranks?

What was Campy thinking when they designed this BB? I realize they make a tool for it, but at $45
it's not cheap. Did they assume that anyone doing their own installation would go Chorus/Record,
which use a less expensive tool that Park makes, and that Chorus was for pre-built lbs bikes which
would be installed by the lbs, who could easily afford the $45 tool? And why does Park even bother
to sell the toothed spanner, given that it can easily slip and cause problems? Do they figure that
there were enough foolish and/or skilled amateur mechanics out there to justify its manufacture? I
can't imagine an lbs using one of these to install or remove this BB when there are far more precise
and trouble-free ones they can use.

--
Kovie [email hidden]

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kovie said:

There's a Campy tool with wrench flats that can be used instead, but it's hard to find and sells
for $45. The Park tool sells for around $8 (BBT-4). There's also a Tacx Cartridge BB Tool that
appears to do the same thing and goes for $25-$30, but I don't know much about it or how easy it
is to find. Would either of these tools be better than the less expensive Park? (Seems kind of
strange though to spend more for the tool than for the component it's meant to be used with!)

The Tacx T4425 is excellent. (That is definitely the model you need: I've got the card that came
with mine infront of me). It engages well and screws into the spindle to hold itself on and
completely prevent slippage. Definitely worth buying if you intend to fit/remove Centaur BBs more
than once or twice in your life, otherwise might as well get LBS to do the job for you, IMO.

Quoted message said:

Alternatively, is there a Chorus BB that can be used with a Centaur triple 10s crank?

No, there aren't any 111 or 115.5mm Chorus BB's.

~PB

Kovie said:

There's a Campy tool with wrench flats that can be used instead, but it's hard to find and sells
for $45. The Park tool sells for around $8 (BBT-4). There's also a Tacx Cartridge BB Tool that
appears to do the same thing and goes for $25-$30, but I don't know much about it or how easy it is
to find. Would either of these tools be better than the less expensive Park? (Seems kind of strange
though to spend more for the tool than for the component it's meant to be used with!)

The cheapo tool can be made to work. The handle angles toward the frame and not outward where you'd
think you get a better grip. It's best if the frame is on its side. Tighten by hand and then hold
the tool in place with one hand and hit the tool with a mallet. It's not ideal but works fine. I
have zero experience with the real tools

Quoted message said:

Alternatively, is there a Chorus BB that can be used with a Centaur triple 10s crank?

I think that the Triple bb for Record will work fine or you can use a Shimano 107 taper bb, like a
BB UN 73 and get a good result.

Kovie said:

Thanks Pete. Looks like this is the tool to get if I want to do this right. I still think it's
crazy that the tool should cost more than the part it's meant to work on, but I suppose this isn't
the only instance of this (spark plugs, headsets, etc.).

Look at it another way: it's amazing that the BB is so cheap. It *is* remarkably inexpensive for
what it is. Be philosophical and pretend you're paying more for the BB and less for the tool, or
alternatively just remember that you'll never regret buying *good* tools - even ones you use
seldomly because it's satisfying just to know you that you're well equiped.

Quoted message said:

Another route would be to get a Shimano BB/triple crankset, most likely Ultegras, which require a
less expensive tool.

Oh no, just say no to ShimaNO!! Seriously, that would be a very weak reason to use different cranks
from the ones you really want.

Quoted message said:

given that Shimano BBs cost a bit more than Campy's, this would effectively negate any price
savings. Any other advantage in going Ultegra on the BB/cranks?

Not that I know of, except perhaps the splined crank/BB interface if you'd prefer that.

Quoted message said:

What was Campy thinking when they designed this BB? I realize they make a tool for it, but at $45
it's not cheap. Did they assume that anyone doing their own installation would go Chorus/Record,
which use a less expensive tool that Park makes, and that Chorus was for pre-built lbs bikes which
would be installed by the lbs, who could easily afford the $45 tool?

Campagnolo think *everyone* uses bike shops.

~PB

Kovie said:

I'm building up a new Centaur-equipped road bike and noticed that the Centaur BB uses a "toothed"
lockring spanner that goes around the perimeter of the Centaur lockring instead of the splined
cartridge tool that goes into the Chorus and Record lockring. I'm a bit concerned about applying
the proper torque when installing the Centaur BB using this tool, and not having it slip and
scratch the frame and possible damage the lockring itself. How hard is this to do, and how does
one get the proper torque applied using this tool, which is incompatible with a torque wrench?

There's a Campy tool with wrench flats that can be used instead, but it's hard to find and sells
for $45. The Park tool sells for around $8 (BBT-4). There's also a Tacx Cartridge BB Tool that
appears to do the same thing and goes for $25-$30, but I don't know much about it or how easy it
is to find. Would either of these tools be better than the less expensive Park? (Seems kind of
strange though to spend more for the tool than for the component it's meant to be used with!)

Alternatively, is there a Chorus BB that can be used with a Centaur triple 10s crank?

The Tacx tool is excellent and common at bike shops which sell Campagnolo equipment. There is no
longer a Chorus/Record BB of the appropriate dimensions for your crank.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Paul wrote

The cheapo tool can be made to work. The handle angles toward the frame and not outward where you'd
think you get a better grip. It's best if the frame is on its side. Tighten by hand and then hold
the tool in place with one hand and hit the tool with a mallet. It's not ideal but works fine. I
have zero experience with the real tools

===

I used the park tool to put in a veloce and centaur BB with the same method. I would wear leather
gloves to grip the tool though.

Mike

Kovie said:

Thanks Pete. Looks like this is the tool to get if I want to do this right. I still think it's
crazy that the tool should cost more than the part it's meant to work on,

Like Pete said, the real thing is that bottom brackets are dirt cheap. Back when Phil Wood came out
with the first cartridge bottom bracket, which was a real improvement over cup&cone bottom brackets
IMO, they were quite expensive -- his still are. But a very servicable Shimano bottom bracket is
under $20 mail-oder, and this Campy model is not that much more IIRC.

Quoted message said:

Another route would be to get a Shimano BB/triple crankset, most likely Ultegras, which require a
less expensive tool. But that would create a mixed Campy/Shimano drivetrain, which I'd like to
avoid. And given that Shimano BBs cost a bit more than Campy's, this would effectively negate any
price savings. Any other advantage in going Ultegra on the

BB/cranks?

There is no advantage, and no disadvantage. The Campy shifter will deal well with any cranks.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | More people object to wearing fur than leather because it is _`\(,_ | safer to harrass rich
white women than motorcycle gangs. (_)/ (_) |

Do you know where I can buy this tool, at a good price? Do lbs's tend to stock it? Do you sell
it? Thanks.

--
Kovie [email hidden]

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kovie said:

I'm building up a new Centaur-equipped road bike and noticed that the Centaur BB uses a
"toothed" lockring spanner that goes around the

perimeter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the Centaur lockring instead of the splined cartridge tool that goes

into

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the Chorus and Record lockring. I'm a bit concerned about applying the proper torque when
installing the Centaur BB using this tool, and not

having

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it slip and scratch the frame and possible damage the lockring itself.

How

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hard is this to do, and how does one get the proper torque applied using this tool, which is
incompatible with a torque wrench?

There's a Campy tool with wrench flats that can be used instead, but

it's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hard to find and sells for $45. The Park tool sells for around $8

(BBT-4).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's also a Tacx Cartridge BB Tool that appears to do the same thing

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

goes for $25-$30, but I don't know much about it or how easy it is to

find.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would either of these tools be better than the less expensive Park?

(Seems

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

kind of strange though to spend more for the tool than for the component it's meant to be used
with!)

Alternatively, is there a Chorus BB that can be used with a Centaur

triple

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

10s crank?

The Tacx tool is excellent and common at bike shops which sell Campagnolo equipment. There is no
longer a Chorus/Record BB of the appropriate dimensions for your crank.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

This makes sense. Cheap razor, expensive blades, but if you get a great shave, who cares? I agree
that it's nice to have good tools, even if you don't use them that often. Given that I'm building up
a Ti frame, which benefits from having parts rethreaded from time to time, I'd probably use this
tool often enough. With a torque wrench it'll come in quite handy.

So, the only question then is where to find this tool at a reasonable price. Any suggestions?

--
Kovie [email hidden]

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kovie said:

Thanks Pete. Looks like this is the tool to get if I want to do this right. I still think it's
crazy that the tool should cost more than the part it's meant to work on, but I suppose this
isn't the only instance of this (spark plugs, headsets, etc.).

Look at it another way: it's amazing that the BB is so cheap. It *is* remarkably inexpensive for
what it is. Be philosophical and pretend you're paying more for the BB and less for the tool, or
alternatively just remember that you'll never regret buying *good* tools - even ones you use
seldomly because it's satisfying just to know you that you're well equiped.

Quoted message said:

Another route would be to get a Shimano BB/triple crankset, most likely Ultegras, which require
a less expensive tool.

Oh no, just say no to ShimaNO!! Seriously, that would be a very weak reason to use different
cranks from the ones you really want.

Quoted message said:

given that Shimano BBs cost a bit more than Campy's, this would effectively negate any price
savings. Any other advantage in going Ultegra on the BB/cranks?

Not that I know of, except perhaps the splined crank/BB interface if you'd prefer that.

Quoted message said:

What was Campy thinking when they designed this BB? I realize they make a tool for it, but at
$45 it's not cheap. Did they assume that anyone doing their own installation would go
Chorus/Record, which use a less expensive tool that Park makes, and that Chorus was for
pre-built lbs bikes which would be installed by the lbs, who could easily afford the $45 tool?

Campagnolo think *everyone* uses bike shops.

~PB

Paul-<< I think that the Triple bb for Record will work fine or you can use a Shimano 107 taper bb,
like a BB UN 73 and get a good result. >><BR><BR>

Record or Chorus triple BB will work but please no shimano tapered BBs for Campagnolo cranks..UN-73,
with the one piece right and cheezy plastic cups and pisspoor feel...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Somehow I've managed to install and remove the Centaur bottom bracket with the less than ideal Park
tool. I was fairly careful to make sure it did not slip off the notches in the bottom bracket ring.

I'm guessing you are very new to bicycling and have never dealt with lock rings on bottom brackets.
I've worked with lock rings and their one tooth spanners or three tooth spanners to view the Park
tool as a vast improvement. Not great by any means, but an improvement over those awful one and
three tooth spanners. I also wish the idiots in Vicenza had just made the bottom bracket accept the
normal cassette/bottom bracket tool.

With a sealed cartridge bottom bracket like the Centaur you will likely install it and not touch it
for several years. And after 3 or 4 years you see its shot, then spend another $25 and get a new
one. Just install it as tight as possible with teflon tape around the threads and ride the bike.

"Kovie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<HVVmb.26802$275.42526@attbi_s53>...

Quoted message said:

I'm building up a new Centaur-equipped road bike and noticed that the Centaur BB uses a "toothed"
lockring spanner that goes around the perimeter of the Centaur lockring instead of the splined
cartridge tool that goes into the Chorus and Record lockring. I'm a bit concerned about applying
the proper torque when installing the Centaur BB using this tool, and not having it slip and
scratch the frame and possible damage the lockring itself. How hard is this to do, and how does
one get the proper torque applied using this tool, which is incompatible with a torque wrench?

There's a Campy tool with wrench flats that can be used instead, but it's hard to find and sells
for $45. The Park tool sells for around $8 (BBT-4). There's also a Tacx Cartridge BB Tool that
appears to do the same thing and goes for $25-$30, but I don't know much about it or how easy it
is to find. Would either of these tools be better than the less expensive Park? (Seems kind of
strange though to spend more for the tool than for the component it's meant to be used with!)

Alternatively, is there a Chorus BB that can be used with a Centaur triple 10s crank?

Actually I've been taking apart, overhauling and rebuilding my bike for over 20 years, but using an
older generation of parts and tools. My Trek uses a "toothed" BB cup that requires the old-style
one-tooth tool. It's slipped in the past and I was concerned that even with the improved Campy BB
and Park tool, it still wouldn't be secure enough and would slip. The thing is, I've done this
before, but only every few years, so I'm not an expert at it, and don't have a mechanic's "touch".
That's why I prefer to use a more secure tool. If I did this every day I'm sure I would have long
since developed a feel for it that didn't require special tools or procedures. My rule of thumb is
if you don't do something more than once a year, keep the manual and re-read it every time, and make
it as fool-proof (i.e. me-proof) as possible.

--
Kovie [email hidden]

"Russell Seaton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Somehow I've managed to install and remove the Centaur bottom bracket with the less than ideal
Park tool. I was fairly careful to make sure it did not slip off the notches in the bottom
bracket ring.

I'm guessing you are very new to bicycling and have never dealt with lock rings on bottom
brackets. I've worked with lock rings and their one tooth spanners or three tooth spanners to view
the Park tool as a vast improvement. Not great by any means, but an improvement over those awful
one and three tooth spanners. I also wish the idiots in Vicenza had just made the bottom bracket
accept the normal cassette/bottom bracket tool.

With a sealed cartridge bottom bracket like the Centaur you will likely install it and not
touch it for several years. And after 3 or 4 years you see its shot, then spend another $25 and
get a new one. Just install it as tight as possible with teflon tape around the threads and
ride the bike.

"Kovie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<HVVmb.26802$275.42526@attbi_s53>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm building up a new Centaur-equipped road bike and noticed that the Centaur BB uses a
"toothed" lockring spanner that goes around the

perimeter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the Centaur lockring instead of the splined cartridge tool that goes

into

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the Chorus and Record lockring. I'm a bit concerned about applying the proper torque when
installing the Centaur BB using this tool, and not

having

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it slip and scratch the frame and possible damage the lockring itself.

How

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hard is this to do, and how does one get the proper torque applied using this tool, which is
incompatible with a torque wrench?

There's a Campy tool with wrench flats that can be used instead, but

it's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hard to find and sells for $45. The Park tool sells for around $8

(BBT-4).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's also a Tacx Cartridge BB Tool that appears to do the same thing

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

goes for $25-$30, but I don't know much about it or how easy it is to

find.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would either of these tools be better than the less expensive Park?

(Seems

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

kind of strange though to spend more for the tool than for the component it's meant to be used
with!)

Alternatively, is there a Chorus BB that can be used with a Centaur

triple

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

10s crank?

Thanks. I found it at LickBike for $24 and ordered one today. (I hope I ordered the right one
though!) A bit more expensive than the $8 Park tool but well worth the peace of mind, I realized.
Especially given that the experts use it as well.

--
Kovie [email hidden]

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kovie-<< Do you know where I can buy this tool, at a good price? Do lbs's

tend

Quoted message said:

to stock it? Do you sell it? >><BR><BR>

Bike shops worth their salt, Like Andy's Yellow Jersey and mine have

it..use

Quoted message said:

it...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

You won't be able to measure torque with this arrangement, but you can get things pretty tight...

Take a crank bolt, a cassette lock ring tool (just about any; perhaps even a socket will work), and
the Park took, and go to a tractor supply store or somewhere that has big flat washers.

My arrangement has one washer holding the Park tool to the BB shell, another washer supporting the
cassette tool, then the cassette tool, one more washer, and finally the crank bolt to hold the whole
mess in place. I can put all my weight on the Park wrench without it slipping!

"Kovie" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:HVVmb.26802$275.42526@attbi_s53:

Quoted message said:

I'm building up a new Centaur-equipped road bike and noticed that the Centaur BB uses a "toothed"
lockring spanner that goes around the perimeter of the Centaur lockring instead of the splined
cartridge tool that goes into the Chorus and Record lockring. I'm a bit concerned about applying
the proper torque when installing the Centaur BB using this tool, and not having it slip and
scratch the frame and possible damage the lockring itself. How hard is this to do, and how does
one get the proper torque applied using this tool, which is incompatible with a torque wrench?

"Kovie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<HVVmb.26802$275.42526@attbi_s53>...

Quoted message said:

I'm building up a new Centaur-equipped road bike and noticed that the Centaur BB uses a "toothed"
lockring spanner that goes around the perimeter of the Centaur lockring instead of the splined
cartridge tool that goes into the Chorus and Record lockring. I'm a bit concerned about applying
the proper torque when installing the Centaur BB using this tool, and not having it slip and
scratch the frame and possible damage the lockring itself. How hard is this to do, and how does
one get the proper torque applied using this tool, which is incompatible with a torque wrench?

There's a Campy tool with wrench flats that can be used instead, but it's hard to find and sells
for $45. The Park tool sells for around $8 (BBT-4). There's also a Tacx Cartridge BB Tool that
appears to do the same thing and goes for $25-$30, but I don't know much about it or how easy it
is to find. Would either of these tools be better than the less expensive Park? (Seems kind of
strange though to spend more for the tool than for the component it's meant to be used with!)

Alternatively, is there a Chorus BB that can be used with a Centaur triple 10s crank?

Kovie,

The Centaur gruppo is not a good choice. Pretty spotty quality and the BB is the worst piece in the
group. My failed quickly. Go with at least a Chorus BB. Shifters are real flimsy also. My wife's
brake release pin falls out regularly. Jim

Jim-<< The Centaur gruppo is not a good choice. Pretty spotty quality and the BB is the worst piece
in the group. My failed quickly. Go with at least a Chorus BB. Shifters are real flimsy also. My
wife's brake release pin falls out regularly >><BR><BR>

Chorus BB is not a proper replacement for the Centaur one unless he changes cranks to
Chorus/Record also.

The Centaur BBs we install seem to last forever..was the frameset BB faced on your wife's bike?

And there is a little round piece of plastic that keep the brake release pin in place-Call us, we
have them.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Thanks. I've already purchased the necessary Centaur components, including BB/cranks, and am just
awaiting delivery of the frame (Hanabero Road Ti) to begin assembly. Although I realize that one
can't really go on appearances, the BB & cranks (10s triple) appear to be well-made (except for the
silly stickers on the chainrings that say "10 Speed", that will probably gunk up and peel off over
time and have to be citrusized to clean up--this should have been "printed" onto the metal so it
appears to have been a marketing-driven afterthought). And haven riden the same Trek for 21 years
without having to replace most core components, just making sure to maintain the drivetrain and
overhaul bearings as needed, I suspect that unless there's a serious design flaw with the Centaurs
(or I got a lemon, or I mess up the installation, or have an accident, etc.), I'll be riding this
quite happily for years w/o incident. Thus the desire to get the installation right...

Incidentally, are there any other "flaws" or quirks with the Centaur group other than the release
pin that I have to be aware of and somehow compensate for?

--
Kovie [email hidden]

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jim-<< The Centaur gruppo is not a good choice. Pretty spotty quality and

the

Quoted message said:

BB is the worst piece in the group. My failed quickly. Go with at least a Chorus BB. Shifters are
real flimsy also. My wife's brake release pin falls out regularly >><BR><BR>

Chorus BB is not a proper replacement for the Centaur one unless he

changes

Quoted message said:

cranks to Chorus/Record also.

The Centaur BBs we install seem to last forever..was the frameset BB faced

on

Quoted message said:

your wife's bike?

And there is a little round piece of plastic that keep the brake release

pin in

Quoted message said:

place-Call us, we have them.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"