How to get faster

Aramei said:

Hi all MTBer's. I'm actually new to MTBing and have only done 2 races so far this year. I don't get much training in. Maybe one day a week if that on the trails, and I go to a spin class once a week.

I'm concerned with how to get faster? Is it just a matter of muscle strength? I have good technical abilities.

Any suggestions?

Christine

I don't want to sound blindingly obvious, but more training will be the most benefit to your performance, as it appears you only train twice a week.

In trained cyclists who race 'endurance' events (anything over about ~ 90-secs) muscle strength has no effect on cycling performance, and indeed, elite cyclists are, on average, no stronger than age, gender, and mass matched sedentary people.

However, as it appears you only train twice weekly, pretty much *any* exercise on top of your twice a week bike training will help improve your fitness and general health. On the other hand, keeping to various types of cycling and increasing the amount you do will have a greater magnitude of increase in fitness than with other exercise (that isn't specifically cycling).

Obviously, i have no idea if you have time to train more than twice weekly...

ric

Try getting an indoor trainer. This extends your training day, allows you to convert TV time into training time, and lets you bike when weather is bad. Although not as nice as biking outside, it is a necessary evil for those whos primary job is not bike training 🙂

At the moment an indoor trainer is out...I'm real new to biking, so I'm assuming that my speed will get better once my experience gets up there also.

As being new, I still have lots of adjustments to my bike to make. I just put my seatpost up an inch on Wednesday's ride. I was amazed at how much better my legs felt. I did a 11 mile trail ride and my legs didn't hurt/ache at all. Usually I [censored] out, I was a bit winded, but I was able to keep going.

woodchuck said:

Try getting an indoor trainer. This extends your training day, allows you to convert TV time into training time, and lets you bike when weather is bad. Although not as nice as biking outside, it is a necessary evil for those whos primary job is not bike training 🙂

Aramei said:

At the moment an indoor trainer is out...I'm real new to biking, so I'm assuming that my speed will get better once my experience gets up there also.

As being new, I still have lots of adjustments to my bike to make. I just put my seatpost up an inch on Wednesday's ride. I was amazed at how much better my legs felt. I did a 11 mile trail ride and my legs didn't hurt/ache at all. Usually I [censored] out, I was a bit winded, but I was able to keep going.

Why not join a local club, they'll be able to offer some advice and help, and get you up to speed?

ric

What helps me alot is Air pressures😎 . Higher you are on road anyway the faster, but for off-road trails it's best to go lower. So rocks don't stick.🙂 .

Bike handling helps too, try to really play with the gears, I've actually gone a couple teeth more in my highest and lowest gears. It helps quite a bit, suprisingly:eek: 😄 .

I imagine that stuff from my Rugby training will also apply to cycling.

For speed training just go flat-out over set distances from a standing start (500m for example), and rest for short periods of around 30seconds to a minute in between, this will also improve recovery time between periods of high exertion (eg short uphills) Preferably start out on the flat or a slight upwards incline.
Always do sprint/speed work at the start of a training ride as it is pointless doing it towards the end of a session.

As you progress try more uphill work, longer distances etc, riding into the wind.
Try pulling something over fairly long distances too (car tyre on a rope, laden trailer, tag-along bike with a tubby mate on), as any weight behind you will increase your forward drive momentum.

Hope this helps.

Batesy said:

I imagine that stuff from my Rugby training will also apply to cycling.

For speed training just go flat-out over set distances from a standing start (500m for example), and rest for short periods of around 30seconds to a minute in between, this will also improve recovery time between periods of high exertion (eg short uphills) Preferably start out on the flat or a slight upwards incline.
Always do sprint/speed work at the start of a training ride as it is pointless doing it towards the end of a session.

As you progress try more uphill work, longer distances etc, riding into the wind.
Try pulling something over fairly long distances too (car tyre on a rope, laden trailer, tag-along bike with a tubby mate on), as any weight behind you will increase your forward drive momentum.

Hope this helps.

Most of this type of training is geared to increasing speed for short (sprint) type distances rather than average sustained speed for a long period of time (i.e., endurance cycling performance, which is anything > ~90-secs durations).

Although some of this training would be very useful, it would be seen as the last part of training for an endurance rider, just prior to e.g., peaking and tapering.

I've assumed that the original poster was/is interested in sustained efforts that last a fair amount of time. These are 'goverened' aerobically, by cardiovascular and metabolic limitations (i.e., VO2max and lactate threshold, respectively).

The type of efforts that would specifically increase those physiolgical paramaters would include shortish intervals of 4 to 8-minutes, and longer intervals of 15 to 30-mins respectively. Additionally, sustained workrates of ~ 90% of ~1-hr TT power will also positively help lactate threshold, and to a lesser extent VO2max.

Recovery between intervals and hard efforts is entirely dependent upon aerobic metabolism and as such is goverened by VO2max and lactate threshold.

Ric

Aramei said:

Hi all MTBer's. I'm actually new to MTBing and have only done 2 races so far this year. I don't get much training in. Maybe one day a week if that on the trails, and I go to a spin class once a week.

I'm concerned with how to get faster? Is it just a matter of muscle strength? I have good technical abilities.

Any suggestions?

Christine

Christine...if you have grass levee's where you live those are great trainers for offroad riding. I live in New Orleans and we have a lot of levees. I practice by going up and down them kind of like a running sprinter running bleachers. Going up really builds dense, strong, efficient muscle tissue while coming down develops muscle that is required for stability on the pedals.

Though strength is speed, endurance is just as critical. Whatever you do to strenghthen your legs you also need to do exercises that promote endurance and proper/efficient consumption of energy. You need to find the proper balance, for your physiology, and make sure that your legs can burn calories without building up to much lactic acid which will cause you to burn out very rapidly.

Basically start somewhere and find a good friend/coach that has some experience and listen to your body.

ric_stern/RST said:

Most of this type of training is geared to increasing speed for short (sprint) type distances rather than average sustained speed for a long period of time (i.e., endurance cycling performance, which is anything > ~90-secs durations).

Although some of this training would be very useful, it would be seen as the last part of training for an endurance rider, just prior to e.g., peaking and tapering.

I've assumed that the original poster was/is interested in sustained efforts that last a fair amount of time. These are 'goverened' aerobically, by cardiovascular and metabolic limitations (i.e., VO2max and lactate threshold, respectively).

The type of efforts that would specifically increase those physiolgical paramaters would include shortish intervals of 4 to 8-minutes, and longer intervals of 15 to 30-mins respectively. Additionally, sustained workrates of ~ 90% of ~1-hr TT power will also positively help lactate threshold, and to a lesser extent VO2max.

Recovery between intervals and hard efforts is entirely dependent upon aerobic metabolism and as such is goverened by VO2max and lactate threshold.

Ric

Ric, I think you forgot that Christine is new to the sport. Maybe you should explain to her, "in English", what the hell it was that you wrote and tell her what V02 is and how to achieve the proper ratio.

Aramei said:

At the moment an indoor trainer is out...I'm real new to biking, so I'm assuming that my speed will get better once my experience gets up there also.

As being new, I still have lots of adjustments to my bike to make. I just put my seatpost up an inch on Wednesday's ride. I was amazed at how much better my legs felt. I did a 11 mile trail ride and my legs didn't hurt/ache at all. Usually I [censored] out, I was a bit winded, but I was able to keep going.

Are you able to organise a training partner or two who are slightly better than yourself and so force the pace up a bit as well as motivate you to increase the training distance. Without sounding critical and not knowing gradients ect, 11 miles sounds fine for a warm up but hardly a training distance, any chance of setting up a training loop of maybe 5 miles and doing multiples of it then reducing you times as a contest against yourself. Bike setup can make a huge improvement to performance , not to overlook major items like clipless pedals and the correct tyres and pressures for them to increase that vital mph.
Keep with it.

Aramei said:

Hi all MTBer's. I'm actually new to MTBing and have only done 2 races so far this year. I don't get much training in. Maybe one day a week if that on the trails, and I go to a spin class once a week.

I'm concerned with how to get faster? Is it just a matter of muscle strength? I have good technical abilities.

Any suggestions?

Christine

if you are on a hill go on a lower gear if you are on downhill go on the hightest gear and pedal reapeatly until pedeling feels loose your on top speed😎

Aramei said:

Hi all MTBer's. I'm actually new to MTBing and have only done 2 races so far this year. I don't get much training in. Maybe one day a week if that on the trails, and I go to a spin class once a week.

I'm concerned with how to get faster? Is it just a matter of muscle strength? I have good technical abilities.

Any suggestions?

Christine

well everyone is concerned with giving you intervals and power workouts ect.., you only train once a day u should concentrate on long endurance on hilly ground to increase your strength and endurance, they don't have to be off-road i do all my long rides on road as easier to find long roads to ride on and long hills.

I would suggest more time on the trail and a larger front chainring

funny, i was just speaking to a recent inductee to a cycling hall of fame who credited any increase in his squat with an improvement in his cycling...

he was known as a bunch sprinter, and told me of this direct correlation
based on his experience.
granted, his squat was not huge in comparison to, for instance, a powerlifter, but could be expected certainly more than the sedentary person you mention here...
he also has a full roster of devoted coaching clients, quite a following really, considering what he is able to charge for his services, and they do include many local age group and district champs.

this 90 sec generality seems too broad to apply to all, as there are so many variables to consider with any cause and effect involved in racing output development, wouldn't you think?

ric_stern/RST said:

In trained cyclists who race 'endurance' events (anything over about ~ 90-secs) muscle strength has no effect on cycling performance, and indeed, elite cyclists are, on average, no stronger than age, gender, and mass matched sedentary people.

Obviously, i have no idea if you have time to train more than twice weekly...

ric

lyotard said:

funny, i was just speaking to a recent inductee to a cycling hall of fame who credited any increase in his squat with an improvement in his cycling...

he was known as a bunch sprinter, and told me of this direct correlation
based on his experience.
granted, his squat was not huge in comparison to, for instance, a powerlifter, but could be expected certainly more than the sedentary person you mention here...
he also has a full roster of devoted coaching clients, quite a following really, considering what he is able to charge for his services, and they do include many local age group and district champs.

this 90 sec generality seems too broad to apply to all, as there are so many variables to consider with any cause and effect involved in racing output development, wouldn't you think?

Sprinting power is increased with weight training when hypertrophy occurs, there's little discussion about that. However, that increase in power would occur and likely cause a decrease in endurance performance (anything over about 90-secs) due to a decrease in mitochondrial and capillary density, decreasing O2 transit, and an increase in mass. Sprint power is also increased with (bike) sprinting, which wouldn't lead to a decrease in endurance cycling performance.

Just because he coaches people doesn't mean he's correct. The peer reviewed evidence, and looking at first principles shows that weight training is unlikely to be beneficial and/or possibly disadvantageous in trained cyclists who race for more than ~90-secs.

Ric

thx for the prompt response. so this is what a team mate, district champ track 'n crit guy, meant when he told me re muscle mass
"you gotta oxygenate that Sh*^"

what is the claim of decreased capillary based on? would not this vary across diff riders, esp considering the variety of cell to fiber to capillary densities found in different riders in various states of conditioning?

i know, i may sound presumptuous to broach this, just been a big fan of what i see as the
long lasting
effects of being able to have my way in road sprint conditions, as a result of lifting.

ric_stern/RST said:

Sprinting power is increased with weight training when hypertrophy occurs, there's little discussion about that. However, that increase in power would occur and likely cause a decrease in endurance performance (anything over about 90-secs) due to a decrease in mitochondrial and capillary density, decreasing O2 transit, and an increase in mass. Sprint power is also increased with (bike) sprinting, which wouldn't lead to a decrease in endurance cycling performance.

Just because he coaches people doesn't mean he's correct. The peer reviewed evidence, and looking at first principles shows that weight training is unlikely to be beneficial and/or possibly disadvantageous in trained cyclists who race for more than ~90-secs.

Ric

lyotard said:

what is the claim of decreased capillary based on? would not this vary acrsoos diff riders?

there's lots of discussion on this in the http://www.cyclingforums.com/f49-cycling-training.html forum

yes, it varies, which is why i said that trained riders it will likely happen and conversely untrained riders will possibly get an increase. as muscle cross sectional area increases there's a relative decrease in capillary density as it stays the same or increases at a slower rate than the cross sectional area. this leads to a relative decrease, and a greater diffusion distance for the O2 leaving the capillaries.

ric

what, please, is your view on the benefit of quad-specific lifting for the
kilo-mode rider?
the classic efforts by Rory O'Reily were fueled by years of lifting, and his record stood a while.
the kilo is a bit longer than 90 sec at this level, and seems a deciding factor in many race defining efforts.
Thanks again for your input.

ric_stern/RST said:

there's lots of discussion on this in the cyclingforums.comf49 cycling training.htmlOpen ↗ forum

yes, it varies, which is why i said that trained riders it will likely happen and conversely untrained riders will possibly get an increase. as muscle cross sectional area increases there's a relative decrease in capillary density as it stays the same or increases at a slower rate than the cross sectional area. this leads to a relative decrease, and a greater diffusion distance for the O2 leaving the capillaries.

ric

lyotard said:

what, please, is your view on the benefit of quad-specific lifting for the
kilo-mode rider?
the classic efforts by Rory O'Reily were fueled by years of lifting, and his record stood a while.
the kilo is a bit longer than 90 sec at this level, and seems a deciding factor in many race defining efforts.
Thanks again for your input.

not sure who Ro'R is?