How do you pick a saddle?

In article <[email hidden]>, Prometheus

Quoted message said:

This is not a troll. I just finished a century ride this weekend and heard a lot of people saying,
"I don't like this saddle."

The usual translation is "I don't like how my ass feels" which often has relatively little to do
with the saddle and a lot to do with inadequate mileage on the soft parts.

There is such a thing as a badly fitting saddle but I think many saddle complaints are "rider error"
- they need more miles on their ass but prefer to put the blame on something that can be purchased.

--Paul

"Prometheus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is not a troll. I just finished a century ride this weekend and

heard

Quoted message said:

a lot of people saying, "I don't like this saddle." Now, commonsense says you try them all until
you find one you like, but surely there is some

other

Quoted message said:

thought behind it than having to purchase all of the ones in the

Performance

Quoted message said:

catalog. Would they even accept returns if you didn't like them? Anyway, I'm curious. Do "bad"
saddles give you saddle sores??? Or, is it just

pure

Quoted message said:

discomfort? Physically debilitating? Mine is not overly comfortable, but

I

Quoted message said:

haven't tried any others.

Thanks in advance.

Saddles are a tricky issue. Shops usually won't take them back as a return. But our shop used to
have a bunch of standard saddles that we'd lend out to good customers. You really can't tell how a
saddle is going to work for you unless you ride it for an hour or more. I've never really had an
issue with any saddle personally, but some people are very picky. I've recently switched to a Body
Geometry saddle to get a little more comfort/less numbness on long rides, but the only saddle I
really had a great problem with was the solid plastic saddle that used to come on BMX bikes! It was
great when I was 12, but since then.... ;-)

Cheers,

Scott..

This is a repost, but since I put some thought into writing it, what the hell...

---------------------------

Discounting gels and cutouts, there are three basic parameters to road-bike saddle shape.

1. "Top view" width, length, taper, etc.

2. "Side view" -- profile flat, bowed, or ramped up in rear.

3. "Rear view" -- profile can vary from almost flat to quite convex

I think too many people focus on #1 and that #2 is probably the most important, although #3 can be a
real disqualifier if it is badly wrong.

Generally (for experienced riders) a firmer saddle is more comfortable on longer rides. Saddles like
the Regal, which is nicely padded overall, are OK for me but variants like the Flite or Trimatic w/
gel inserts are not.

The angle at which you place the saddle is extremely important. Start with the saddle absolutely
level; rest a yardstick on top of the saddle and adjust the tilt so it's perfectly parallel with the
top tube. Then experiment and note what works for you. Generally too far nose-down puts pressure on
your hands and too far nose-up makes your sit-bones ache and increases pressure on the perineum.

Everybody's butt is different and saddle preferences are highly personal. Just for info, here's how
I'd rank the ones I've tried on my bikes or others I've ridden and remember, over the last 10 years:

LIKES (#1 is best)

4. Trimatic (non gel)
5. Regal
6. Coda (~ Flite shape)
7. Flite (non-gel)
8. Max Flite
9. Turbomatic 2
10. Rolls
11. Terry Sport
12. Bassano Vuelta

DISLIKES (#1 is worst)

13. Turbo
14. Concor
15. Expedia
16. Squadra
17. Vetta

Somebody told me the Turbo, which killed my butt after 30 miles, actually had the same profile as
the Turbomatic 2, which it quite comfortable to me. So go figure.

Mike Yankee

(Address is munged to thwart spammers. To reply, delete everything after "com".)

I've been riding for over 30 years and have found very few seats that I like. That said, what I like
and works for me may be totally wrong for someone else. In those 30+ years of riding the seats that
have worked for me are the orignal Brooks Team Pro, both generations of the Concor and the also the
Regal. I am now riding the Regal, but if needs be can switch back to either generation of the
Concor. I would never go back to the Brooks. "Prometheus" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is not a troll. I just finished a century ride this weekend and

heard

Quoted message said:

a lot of people saying, "I don't like this saddle." Now, commonsense says you try them all until
you find one you like, but surely there is some

other

Quoted message said:

thought behind it than having to purchase all of the ones in the

Performance

Quoted message said:

catalog. Would they even accept returns if you didn't like them? Anyway, I'm curious. Do "bad"
saddles give you saddle sores??? Or, is it just

pure

Quoted message said:

discomfort? Physically debilitating? Mine is not overly comfortable, but

I

Quoted message said:

haven't tried any others.

Thanks in advance.

"Prometheus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is not a troll. I just finished a century ride this weekend and

heard

Quoted message said:

a lot of people saying, "I don't like this saddle." Now, commonsense says you try them all until
you find one you like, but surely there is some

other

Quoted message said:

thought behind it than having to purchase all of the ones in the

Performance

Quoted message said:

catalog. Would they even accept returns if you didn't like them? Anyway, I'm curious. Do "bad"
saddles give you saddle sores??? Or, is it just

pure

Quoted message said:

discomfort? Physically debilitating? Mine is not overly comfortable, but

I

Quoted message said:

haven't tried any others.

Thanks in advance.

FWIW, Mail order houses will generally take back anything that's still in new condition. Once, years
back, when a shop balked at ordering a saddle I wanted to try, I simply picked up the phone and
ordered five (yes, 5) different ones from one place. I taped my seatpost clamp to preserve the rails
and rode each one around the block a few times. That's enough for me to know whether a seat warrants
further time or is a no-go, so I kept the one I liked best and sent the rest back, all in new
condition. One shipping box, a few bucks spent on return freight, and I got to try all the seats I
was curious about. My butt thanked me for it, and I'd do it again in a minute if my current LBS
wasn't as accommodating as they are.

SB

"Prometheus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is not a troll. I just finished a century ride this weekend and

heard

Quoted message said:

a lot of people saying, "I don't like this saddle." Now, commonsense says you try them all until
you find one you like, but surely there is some

other

Quoted message said:

thought behind it than having to purchase all of the ones in the

Performance

Quoted message said:

catalog. Would they even accept returns if you didn't like them? Anyway, I'm curious. Do "bad"
saddles give you saddle sores??? Or, is it just

pure

Quoted message said:

discomfort? Physically debilitating? Mine is not overly comfortable, but

I

Quoted message said:

haven't tried any others.

Thanks in advance.

One of the ways to test out a potential saddle is to test ride a buddy's bike. Even though the
position may not be right, you can usually tell pretty rapidly whether something is close and may
warrant another try.

Over the years, I've decided by trial and error, that the Concour/Light, the Avocet O2Air40,
Specialized ProLong, and several other saddles just don't work for my butt. The Flite/Gel, the
ProTeam Indurain, the Turbomatic, the Era, and the Rolls, but not the Max Flite all work Similar
saddles in the same "family:" Flite, Turbo, Turbomatic are mostly going to fit similarly, but try
them just to make sure.

If you test ride the saddle on your buddy's bike and you seem to like it, buy one to really make
sure... Then if it still doesn't fit, I'd bet that you have friends in the same position you are
that would love to take that saddle off your hands.

Mike

Jeff Martin said:

I've been riding for over 30 years and have found very few seats that I like. That said, what I
like and works for me may be totally wrong for someone else.

I have been riding racing bikes for exactly 30 years, now, and got stuck with my very first saddle.
That is, after a while I got used and fit to it, not vice versa. So, I bought more saddles of the
same type and more recently I just picked them up for free since, as fashion rules, they were
discarded by all. The whole lot of my bikes have the very same type of saddle. As long as I maintain
fit that'll be fine.

For the record, that was a Cinelli Corsa. This is not a suggestion for anyone else, though.

Sergio Pisa

"Prometheus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is not a troll. I just finished a century ride this weekend and heard a lot of people saying,
"I don't like this saddle." Now, commonsense says you try them all until you find one you like,
but surely there is some other thought behind it than having to purchase all of the ones in the
Performance catalog. Would they even accept returns if you didn't like them? Anyway, I'm curious.
Do "bad" saddles give you saddle sores??? Or, is it just pure discomfort? Physically debilitating?
Mine is not overly comfortable, but I haven't tried any others.

I don't know that there's any way to predict how you'll like a saddle, and yes, I do think saddles
make a huge difference, even after all the fit issues are tweaked.

I was reasonably comfortable on many of the generic saddles, the kind that come on new bikes. Most
LBS have a bunch of them taken off new bikes for upgrades, available for $5-10. These can be a
reasonable starting point to see what you don't like in padding and shape.

Despite all efforts, saddle selection may still be a trial and error thing though. I'm a distance
rider, and needed a saddle that would be good for rides longer than 200 miles. Many distance riders
use and recommend the Brooks leather saddles. I tried 2 (Pro & B17) of the most popular models, and
had nothing but discomfort, even after trying every permutation of tilt, height and setback. I wound
up swapping the saddle with someone who had bought a new bike with a saddle they hated, in the end
we were both happy, I did a 250 mile ride with the new saddle and had no problems.

A poorly suited saddle can cause many problems: genital numbness (that may persist a while (days)
after a long ride), saddle sores (the Brooks Pro almost wiped out my summer riding season), a
feeling of being "unbalanced" (can't get comfortable, sliding back & forth, etc.), or just soreness
at the pelvic "sit bones" -- I rode a double century on a Selle Italia Flite which was pretty
comfortable for ~150 miles, then became positive torture for the last 50, I was literally yelping
with every bump in the road.

Bike saddles are a lot like shoes, and as far as I know, there's no way to predict how you'll like a
pair of shoes exactly, but most people become aware of their individual preferences, like heel/toe
width, arch support, etc. Shoe stores don't let you bring them back after a week or two either. Some
shops will, or may, with qualifications. One I asked said that they'd take it back if it was
unmarked in any way -- that's kind of a gamble.

davburke-<< This is not a troll. I just finished a century ride this weekend and heard a lot of
people saying, "I don't like this saddle."

Go to a bike shop that will- -put the new saddle in the same place as the old one-height and
fore-aft wise(assuming the fit is proper) and -will swap for another if it isn't comfy(assuming the
saddle looks new)-

<< but surely there is some other thought behind it than having to purchase all of the ones in the
Performance catalog.

See a bike shop-

<< I'm curious. Do "bad" saddles give you saddle sores???

Most saddle problems we see are bike fit issues, not saddle design issues..

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

< This is not a troll >

what exactly does this mean?

Dan

DanSMeyers said:

< This is not a troll >

what exactly does this mean?

He's sincerely asking and not trying to start a flame war.

In article said:

DanSMeyers said:

< This is not a troll >

what exactly does this mean?

He's sincerely asking and not trying to start a flame war.

...which typically results in exactly that. :-)

Quoted message said:

From: "Peter Cole"

Quoted message said:

A poorly suited saddle can cause many problems: genital numbness...

I think I solved this problem by changing... my shorts! That is, I went to a short with a THINNER ,
one piece seamless pad. For me, thicker pads were worse than no pad - gel being the worst.

Quoted message said:

I rode a double century on a Selle Italia Flite which was pretty comfortable for ~150 miles, then
became positive torture for the last 50,

Some pads begin to bunch up after many miles and create high and low spots which cause discomfort.
After a long ride, look at the pad and see if it's creased from having bunched up.

Thin pads and firm(er) saddles seem to work for me.

Sig Chicago

"Scic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: "Peter Cole"

Quoted message said:

A poorly suited saddle can cause many problems: genital numbness...

I think I solved this problem by changing... my shorts! That is, I went to

a

Quoted message said:

short with a THINNER , one piece seamless pad. For me, thicker pads were worse than no pad - gel
being the worst.

For several years I've used PI shorts exclusively, their pad is very thin. Thick pads really go
counter to the main function of the pad, which, despite the name, are there to prevent friction, not
to cushion.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I rode a double century on a Selle Italia Flite which was pretty comfortable for ~150 miles,
then became positive torture for the last 50,

Some pads begin to bunch up after many miles and create high and low spots which cause discomfort.
After a long ride, look at the pad and see if it's creased from having bunched up.

I've never had shorts so loose or thickly padded as to bunch up. Cheaper shorts (6 panel, typically)
don't fit as well at the thigh/torso junction and can develop a crease there, which can rub you raw.
The problem I had with the Flite, for such long distances, was probably its flatness. It's a subtle
thing, but it adds up after many miles.

RE/

Quoted message said:

This is not a troll. I just finished a century ride this weekend and heard a lot of people saying,
"I don't like this saddle." Now, commonsense says you try them all until you find one you like, but
surely there is some other thought behind it than having to purchase all of the ones in the
Performance catalog. Would they even accept returns if you didn't like them? Anyway, I'm curious.
Do "bad" saddles give you saddle sores??? Or, is it just pure discomfort? Physically debilitating?
Mine is not overly comfortable, but I haven't tried any others.

It's tough and I'd opine that anyone that isn't blessed with a cast-iron butt can expect to
accumulate a number of saddles before finding the one they like.

To keep the numbers down I would:

1) Measure my butt. Sit on a piece of soft cardboard or styrofoam until you can see the dents made
by your ichial tuberosities. Once you've got the dents, measure the center-to-center distance.

2) Bump my butt measurement up against each prospective saddle. Don't, however, look at the top of
the saddle. Look underneath and then determine where your center points will rest. Some saddles
have fairly wide I-beam-type reinforcements around their outside edges which limit their usable
width. You want a saddle that's wide enough but not too much wider.

3) Maybe try one soft saddle. "Some kids just have to touch the stove..." and all that. In general,
however, I'd just bypass saddles with more than a certain amount of padding. Likewise, I wouldn't
waste any time looking at jel-covered saddles.
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

"Paul Southworth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Prometheus

Quoted message said:

This is not a troll. I just finished a century ride this weekend and

heard

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a lot of people saying, "I don't like this saddle."

The usual translation is "I don't like how my ass feels" which often has relatively little to do
with the saddle and a lot to do with inadequate mileage on the soft parts.

There is such a thing as a badly fitting saddle but I think many saddle complaints are "rider
error" - they need more miles on their ass but prefer to put the blame on something that can be
purchased.

I do agree with you, Paul; but some of the newer saddle designs are much kinder to the soft tissues.
This is extremely important to many riders, myself included. I've ready many reports of relief from
prostatis related pain after switching to a cutout saddle. I love my Terry Liberator saddle. Very
comfy. My wife rode it and laid claim to it - and wouldn't let me have it back! So, I bought her
one. Now she has both of them - one on the tandem and one on her road bike. I'm thinking of trying
some of the newer Terry designs, or similar "cutout" road bike saddle designs.

Having said that, I'm also thinking of replacing my old Brooks saddle, which was stolen. I can't
honestly explain why it was so comfy; but I think it gets your butt conditioned more quickly than
most by being very hard. Perhaps that is the answer: A shorter period of discomfort every spring,
followed by a longer period of toughness that provides superior rider comfort. Sounds like a sales
pitch, eh?

-Barry

"Prometheus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This is not a troll. I just finished a century ride this weekend and heard a lot of people saying,
"I don't like this saddle." Now, commonsense says you try them all until you find one you like,
but surely there is some other thought behind it than having to purchase all of the ones in the
Performance catalog. Would they even accept returns if you didn't like them? Anyway, I'm curious.
Do "bad" saddles give you saddle sores??? Or, is it just pure discomfort? Physically debilitating?
Mine is not overly comfortable, but I haven't tried any others.

Thanks in advance.

Most won't believe but saddle comfort is more related to the rider's position on the bike than the
saddle itself. The single most important thing IMO is to get a more upright position if you want
saddle comfort. This means the fashion police will come after you. When I discovered this my
bottom immediately felt so much better but I spent a lot of time looking at my upright position in
shop windows as I sped by in comfort and realized that I did not look like the the other riders.I
got over it.

"Michael Pearlman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Most won't believe but saddle comfort is more related to the rider's position on the bike than the
saddle itself. The single most important thing IMO is to get a more upright position if you want
saddle comfort. This means the fashion police will come after you. When I discovered this my
bottom immediately felt so much better but I spent a lot of time looking at my upright position in
shop windows as I sped by in comfort and realized that I did not look like the the other riders.I
got over it.

As Sheldon Brown describes so well in one of his articles on bike fit, best posture on a bike has
everything to how hard you ride. An upright posture will put more weight on your butt, all else
being equal. The harder you ride, the more weight will be borne on your feet. Getting the right back
angle is about generating power and reducing aerodynamic drag, both of these are non-issues for
cycling at slower paces. Rotating the pelvis forward to achieve low back angles may cause saddle
pressure in the perineal area; low-moderate pedaling in this mode doesn't take enough weight onto
the feet, and can then cause discomfort. Cyclists who ride at low-moderate intensity shouldn't
imitate the postures of racers.

"Scic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: "Peter Cole"

Quoted message said:

Rotating the pelvis forward to achieve low back angles may cause saddle

pressure in the perineal area...

Hmmm... I always thought it was the opposite - less perineal pressure. Along the axis of rotation,
your sit bones are rotated forward and down into the saddle. As a result, the perineal area, being
in front of the sit

bones,

Quoted message said:

is rotated forward and up, relieving pressure.

I don't understand your geometry, perhaps it's a confusion in terms. When I say "low back angles", I
meant more parallel to the ground, AKA "flatter" (as in going down into the drops).