High Pulse Rate and Progress

Carrera said:

I went on my hard training run today - 3 solid hours of climbing and descending with the odd bit of blissful flat. I cheated as well by pausing before the main climb of the route, wishing myself at the peak with no sweat to pay for the privilege.
This is what I thought I'd ask, though. How many of you roadies out there have ever had your pulse really high on a run? And is it good for you health-wise and fitness-wise?
I don't exactly know how high my pulse got today as I don't have a device fitted yet to my bike. What I do know was I was taking in buckets of air (and cussing as is my custom when in discomfort). Incidentally when I reached the top, I noticed it took a few minutes for my breathing to settle - possibly a sign my fitness could improve somewhat. While I recovered I only changed up a couple of gears and really sucked in loads of air till getting my breath back on the flater section.
Do people think it's a good idea to really get a high pulse rate every so often and can you recall the time your pulse was at its max during a ride? Is it a good thing for cyclists or can it lead to overtraining?

I used to regulary get my pulse rate over 200 when running quarter mile intervals. It must have been good for me - I won some national running championships! Now years later as an old fart cyclist (64), I ocassionally hit into the 180's on a max, prolonged, sprint effort.

Carrera said:

I went on my hard training run today - 3 solid hours of climbing and descending with the odd bit of blissful flat. I cheated as well by pausing before the main climb of the route, wishing myself at the peak with no sweat to pay for the privilege.
This is what I thought I'd ask, though. How many of you roadies out there have ever had your pulse really high on a run? And is it good for you health-wise and fitness-wise?
I don't exactly know how high my pulse got today as I don't have a device fitted yet to my bike. What I do know was I was taking in buckets of air (and cussing as is my custom when in discomfort). Incidentally when I reached the top, I noticed it took a few minutes for my breathing to settle - possibly a sign my fitness could improve somewhat. While I recovered I only changed up a couple of gears and really sucked in loads of air till getting my breath back on the flater section.
Do people think it's a good idea to really get a high pulse rate every so often and can you recall the time your pulse was at its max during a ride? Is it a good thing for cyclists or can it lead to overtraining?

Yes, I can recall my HR was at my 184 max for about a minute last week sprinting up my home hill on a training ride. I don't do this very often; maybe once a month. On big climbs during a long ride, I try to keep the steady HR to 90-95% tops. I don't hurt doing this high an effort in the short term, but I know I'll pay later in the ride if I burn too much/too early.

Believe VO2 max training can certainly lead to overtraining if done too often. As you know, frequency, intensity and duration are the training variables we have to juggle, and for most of us, just doing more of everything isn't better.

Unless you've got a personal coach, you'll need to determine the correct amount of VO2 max training that's right for you. Your overall fitness, your goals, where you are vs. your season peak, and your ability to recover all play a part. If your big events are over now, and your starting to taper towards off-season, I'd skip the VO2 max stuff altogether till next spring.

What happened is I've been experimenting a lot with my style of training and trying to determine what my goals are exactly, how much training would be adequate and where I may have fallen short in the past.
Lately I've been trying out a system of training more intensely but less often. I think what happened yesterday was my pulse rate got pretty high due to the fact I had probably rested a little bit too much. Having said that, my breathing was controlled, even if I was taking in great gulps of air.
I decided that what I probably need to do is to tackle that route a little more often with less rest days in between. I don't think my pulse will always be quite as high as it inevitably was yesterday but, however the case may be, today I'll rest and take a very easy ride tomorrow.
I think there must be some difference between the pulse rate you get when sprinting and the pulse reaction to a climb. In both instances, the pulse will shoot up somewhat. I don't know how to sprint but steep, winding climbs certainly wake my cardiovascular system up. So, I was wondering whether these high pulse rates are desirable for overall fitness or whether you can get the same (or better results) riding for longer distances at a lower pulse rate.

dhk said:

Yes, I can recall my HR was at my 184 max for about a minute last week sprinting up my home hill on a training ride. I don't do this very often; maybe once a month. On big climbs during a long ride, I try to keep the steady HR to 90-95% tops. I don't hurt doing this high an effort in the short term, but I know I'll pay later in the ride if I burn too much/too early.

Believe VO2 max training can certainly lead to overtraining if done too often. As you know, frequency, intensity and duration are the training variables we have to juggle, and for most of us, just doing more of everything isn't better.

Unless you've got a personal coach, you'll need to determine the correct amount of VO2 max training that's right for you. Your overall fitness, your goals, where you are vs. your season peak, and your ability to recover all play a part. If your big events are over now, and your starting to taper towards off-season, I'd skip the VO2 max stuff altogether till next spring.

Carrera said:

... What happened is I've been experimenting a lot with my style of training and trying to determine what my goals are exactly, how much training would be adequate and where I may have fallen short in the past. Lately I've been trying out a system of training more intensely but less often...

Same here. For months I had been building up [censored] doing 3 - 4 hour base rides (65% - 75% MaxHR type stuff) as you have been but about 3 weeks ago it seems I just got bored to death with it. I've cut back on the number of days I ride and limit my sessions to 60 minutes and a week ago I started lifting weights again, which I didn't do when logging all those miles. Seems to have worked wonders. I now find exercise interesting again and the pain I was experiencing in my right knee has almost cleared up completely. I recall you were having some knee problems too.

Quoted post said:

... So, I was wondering whether these high pulse rates are desirable for overall fitness or whether you can get the same (or better results) riding for longer distances at a lower pulse rate.

I can't say whether or not pushing your HR that much will help or hurt as I don't have the background. However, I will say that for all of the hours I spent on the bike at the lower intensities my resting HR hasn't really improved any. It's still about the same as it was last fall, which is around 58 BPM. 😠 I was hoping to be around 50 - 52. So I'm going back to what worked for me last year, which was shorter but more intensive bouts of training. I'm going to make the 2 x 20 interval the core of my routine.

That being said I did manage to beat my last year's personal best for a 5 mile TT by doing all of those slower longer rides. Beat it by 0.3 MPH on the second attempt on the first day I tried. Also, I can do a 50 miler now without any problem (other than saddle discomfort), which I couldn't do last year. Hopefully, next year I'll be able to do a century as easily. Now I just have to improve my average speed and lower that resting HR.

Glad your training's going well.
What may interest you (and everyone else) is the fact I've discovered fat loss seems to be phenomenal using this system. What I do is have more rest time but I make a point of doing one brutal bike session once a week. The terrain I use for this is the hardest - descents and climbs all the way. It's tough because the descents are bound to pass real quickly so, soon as you've done one long climb, another will appear.
My elevated pulse rate kicks in when I hit the second major climb of the run. I suppose I could bring my pulse down by using the smallest chain ring but I usually opt for the middle ring and biggest wheel cog. If I'm on form I can get up there and admire the view as I work uphill but if I'm lacking a little fitness I suffer too much to take in the vista. It's a 3 hour run basically.
I mentioned I do one hard session per week but I do mild rides as well in between. I'm also eating like a horse and burning fat too quickly on this present system. My knees ache less now I rest more and eat better but I feel my weight work is important to maintain my bodyweight as the battle I have now is to prevent too much weight loss as I feel my present weight is about right for my energy levels.
I think that maybe I've decided I'll never try and diet again. The key I think is to feed yourself well and speed up the metabolism so you burn up excess fat.

Doctor Morbius said:

Same here. For months I had been building up [censored] doing 3 - 4 hour base rides (65% - 75% MaxHR type stuff) as you have been but about 3 weeks ago it seems I just got bored to death with it. I've cut back on the number of days I ride and limit my sessions to 60 minutes and a week ago I started lifting weights again, which I didn't do when logging all those miles. Seems to have worked wonders. I now find exercise interesting again and the pain I was experiencing in my right knee has almost cleared up completely. I recall you were having some knee problems too.

I can't say whether or not pushing your HR that much will help or hurt as I don't have the background. However, I will say that for all of the hours I spent on the bike at the lower intensities my resting HR hasn't really improved any. It's still about the same as it was last fall, which is around 58 BPM. 😠 I was hoping to be around 50 - 52. So I'm going back to what worked for me last year, which was shorter but more intensive bouts of training. I'm going to make the 2 x 20 interval the core of my routine.

That being said I did manage to beat my last year's personal best for a 5 mile TT by doing all of those slower longer rides. Beat it by 0.3 MPH on the second attempt on the first day I tried. Also, I can do a 50 miler now without any problem (other than saddle discomfort), which I couldn't do last year. Hopefully, next year I'll be able to do a century as easily. Now I just have to improve my average speed and lower that resting HR.

This is an interesting topic! This year I've made some crucial changes to my training, including easier easy days and *much* harder hard days, to the extent that some hill training or interval sessions get me close to vomiting. Also a much increased volume of training since I realised I was undertraining last year. I'm still getting nowhere near the most optimal training I could be doing, or so my training diary is telling me, but I've learnt a lot more about how to treat my body, and how to listen to it.

I have experienced nausea on early morning rides but this is probably due to bio-rhythms.
I don't think it's really a good idea to push so hard that you feel nauseous. I have experienced extreme hyperventilation on a couple of occasions but concluded this was probably dangerous and promised myself not to do it again. I decided that once my breathing starts to get out of control, it would be wise to stop and take a breather. Don't have that problem now anyway since I have lower gears on my bike.
My major climbing work is quite amusing in some ways. If I'm really being challenged I make a point of measuring out deep, rhythmical breaths (interrupted by audible cussing). I don't feel nauseous but it may take me almost 5 minutes to get my breathing back to normal once I hit the summit. However, the test of improved fitness is if you can instantly change gear at the top and increase speed back to normal.

KakenBetaal said:

This is an interesting topic! This year I've made some crucial changes to my training, including easier easy days and *much* harder hard days, to the extent that some hill training or interval sessions get me close to vomiting. Also a much increased volume of training since I realised I was undertraining last year. I'm still getting nowhere near the most optimal training I could be doing, or so my training diary is telling me, but I've learnt a lot more about how to treat my body, and how to listen to it.