[Helmets] Scene elsewhere

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:04:53 +0000 someone who may be David Marsh
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The Parliament really does look a lot better from the inside than it
does from the outside, though.

As most people see it from the outside that is largely irrelevant.

If they made it welcoming to the public, as they promised, so that
one could enter without hassle then more people might bother to
look.

Quoted message said:

However, some aspects of the external design do work quite well: the main
frontage - if only they were to get rid of the ridiculously ugly
'scaffolding awning'

I assume by the main frontage you mean the plebs' entrance, not the
one for servants.

I find it amusing that they don't want a bus stop, but are happy
with that monstrosity. It looks like an afterthought and could be
used to mount a terrorist attack just like a bus stop.

Quoted message said:

- the MSPs' block,

Is that not an old building, rather than an upturned boat?

Quoted message said:

the 'streams' between the 'boats'.

What are these? Can one see them without hassle?

Quoted message said:

It's just a shame that the side on Holyrood Road is so damn ugly, err,
creatively brutalist, representative of the jagged rocks of Highland
peaks, err, *ugly*.

Looks worse than the St James Centre:-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They could also
restore the road they closed, forcing cyclists into undesirable
detours.

Although there is no signage as such, the site plans that I had seen
indicated that the paved-way from the front of the building, through the
landscaped area and onto Holyrood Road (by Dynamic Earth) was clearly
marked as a route for cycling and walking

Then they need to erect suitable signs etc. and should have done so
before the folly opened its doors. There was plenty of money for big
televisions and fridges, replacing these with modest monitors and
communal fridges would have saved some money for the signs. Communal
fridges also mean less greenhouse gas emissions, something the
parcel of rogues inside claim to be in favour of.

Quoted message said:

Shame about the 170° blind bend halfway along, though.

Can one take a child trailer through it. If not the "cycle route" is
a failure.

Quoted message said:

It may not be perfect, but the job was done (and hopefully lessons
learned)

Lessons will only be learnt if people are reminded of it. Those that
forget history tend to repeat it.

Quoted message said:

and hopefully those in themselves are achivements that we
should have some pride in, and then move on, rather than continually
doing ourselves down.

Nobody is doing down the public and the country they live in when
criticising Donald Dewar's Folly. Claiming that strikes me as being
the sort of thing Alastair Campbell or Peter Mandelson would claim.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen said:

Nobody is doing down the public and the country they live in when
criticising Donald Dewar's Folly. Claiming that strikes me as being
the sort of thing Alastair Campbell or Peter Mandelson would claim.

Yet despite a reasonably strong u.r.c.Scottish presence of people who
are not afraid to be outspoken, it reamings the case that you're the
only one here with major bee/bonnet interface problems about it,
dragging it up whenever it can be dragged up, while the rest of us are
more interested in bikes. [censored], even in h*lmets! ;-/

It is you prerogative to moan away, but don't assume you're finding a
willing audience for it on u.r.c.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

it reamings the case

Reamings? Bit of a [censored] up on the "spellcheck while trying to fix
someone's laptop at the same time" front, Reggie. I meant "remains".

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:19:27 +0000 someone who may be Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Yet despite a reasonably strong u.r.c.Scottish presence of people who
are not afraid to be outspoken, it reamings the case that you're the
only one here with major bee/bonnet interface problems about it,

The only one who has criticised it strongly in this thread.

One could equally well say that few have bothered to defend the
folly, despite a reasonably strong u.r.c.Scottish presence of
people. Yes more have defended it than criticised it, but the
numbers are too small to be significant.

Quoted message said:

dragging it up whenever it can be dragged up,

Incorrect.

Indeed if one looks back to the first mention of the subject in this
thread one reads:

"* yes, I know the Parliament building was many times over budget,
and some strange projections were used to finance the Cairngorm
railway. Ah, maybe I've answered the point..

"- Nigel"

My name is not Nigel and neither did I drag it up in this thread.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen said:

The only one who has criticised it strongly in this thread.

A quick Google on "Dewar's Folly" here shows 3 posts in three different
threads on three separate occasions, all of whom were authored by you.

Quoted message said:

Incorrect.

Indeed if one looks back to the first mention of the subject in this
thread one reads:

"* yes, I know the Parliament building was many times over budget,
and some strange projections were used to finance the Cairngorm
railway. Ah, maybe I've answered the point..

"- Nigel"

My name is not Nigel and neither did I drag it up in this thread.

That first reference is a joking one alongside another, to which you've
added your Pet Name and droned on and on and on and on and on some more
at quite some length about how terrible it is and how you should go on
and on and on some more about it.

Like I said, your prerogative, but nobody seems to be rushing to join in.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

which you've
added your Pet Name and droned on and on and on and on and on some more
at quite some length

Oh come now, that doesn't sound like the Hansen we know and, err, ... :-)

--
Trevor Barton

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:11:46 +0000 someone who may be Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Like I said, your prerogative, but nobody seems to be rushing to join in.

Oh, several people have joined in. They have disagreed with me, but
they have joined in.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On 23 Mar 2005 16:24:33 GMT someone who may be Trevor Barton
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Oh come now, that doesn't sound like the Hansen we know and, err, ... :-)

Excellent, referring to someone by their surname.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen said:

On 23 Mar 2005 16:24:33 GMT someone who may be Trevor Barton
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Oh come now, that doesn't sound like the Hansen we know and, err, ... :-)

Excellent, referring to someone by their surname.

Eh? What do you want me to call you? Bob? It seems perfectly acceptable
to me, I can't quite see why it seems to aerate you. Or did you expect a
Mr. in front of it? Or Master? or Ms, I guess it's probably too much of
a wild assumption to assume that "David" is *always* a male's name, for all
I know it's an anglicisation of the Thai name spelled (phoenetically)
Doavied which loosely translates to "Goddess of the Obtuse" in English.
the surname Hansen only vaguely rules that out, I guess your mother could
have been Thai.

--
Barton, Trevor, Dr.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:32:31 +0000 someone who may be Trevor Barton
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Excellent, referring to someone by their surname.

Eh? What do you want me to call you? Bob? It seems perfectly acceptable
to me, I can't quite see why it seems to aerate you.

Don't take up mind reading for a living. It does not aerate me in
the least. In fact it does quite the reverse. Someone being rude in
that way tends to indicate that they are running out of better
arguments.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:42:26 +0000 someone who may be David Marsh
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As most people see it from the outside that is largely irrelevant.

Hmm, not sure about that: hasn't Parliament been the most popular
visitor attraction other than Edinburgh Castle, since it opened?

It may well have been, though whether it will remain so is yet to be
seen. However, I imagine few of those that pass by go in. Most
people have more important things to do.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, the Reversed Date took place since those promises were
made, and I know you know how the security services like to react to
such things..

There has been much nonsense spoken on the issue, regarding the
folly and elsewhere. I suppose it allows backside covering and
"doing something". In fact these issues were considered long before
the 11th of September 2001. For example the prospect of damage to a
building was in government design manuals decades before the start
of this particular project. You may have noticed that many
government buildings are spine buildings, with rooms off a central
corridor. Perhaps the best known example is much of Bletchley Park.
These have the advantage that they are adaptable to offices,
hospitals and barracks. If one wing is damaged one can just close it
off and continue working elsewhere. The disadvantage is they are not
energy efficient. Now it is true that since the 1970s, for various
reasons, such buildings have not been in favour, but that does not
mean the subject of damage was forgotten, at least until the
Thatcher era when lots of expertise was lost.

Quoted message said:

No, the block with the MSPs' offices is the new north-south aligned
tower block at the western edge of the site.

If I am ever in the area I will try and remember to take a look.

Quoted message said:

Destination signs at each end might have been useful, though.

Perhaps you should suggest this.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can one take a child trailer through it. If not the "cycle route" is
a failure.

I think so, the path's about 2 m wide, which should give enough
clearance, although, like anybody else, you'd have to take the corner
slowly.

That would give the so-called security jobsworths a heart attack:-)

Quoted message said:

Short of any further scandal being uncovered, I think everything that
can be criticised about the Parliament has been criticised. Anything
else is just repetition which isn't strictly necessary, I feel.

The Labour Party disagree with you, which is why they announce the
same thing several times.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen said:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:32:31 +0000 someone who may be Trevor Barton
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Excellent, referring to someone by their surname.

Eh? What do you want me to call you? Bob? It seems perfectly acceptable
to me, I can't quite see why it seems to aerate you.

Don't take up mind reading for a living. It does not aerate me in
the least. In fact it does quite the reverse. Someone being rude in
that way tends to indicate that they are running out of better
arguments.

I'm afraid I can't see how it's rude to call someone by their name????

Now I'm perfectly happy that my post, which I quote below ...

Pete Clinch said ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which you've
added your Pet Name and droned on and on and on and on and on some more
at quite some length

And I replied ...

Quoted message said:

Oh come now, that doesn't sound like the Hansen we know and, err, ... :-)

.... was rude, but it wasn't rude because I called you Hansen. As for
"running out of arguments" I never made any arguments in the first
place, I confined myself to pure pithy comment. You could say I
was taking the pith 8-). Sadly, albeit typically, you seem to have missed
the point entirely and focussed on exactly the wrong issue, so let
me rephrase it:

Quoted message said:

Oh come now, that doesn't sound like the David we know and, err, ... :-)

Silly boy!

--
Treevus van der Bartone

David Marsh <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Hmm, not sure about that: hasn't Parliament been the most popular
visitor attraction other than Edinburgh Castle, since it opened?

I went to have a look at it when I was back home over Christmas. I must
admit that my wife and I took one look at it and thought "****, that's
ugly!" and went straight home again. It struck us as being something that
will date *very* quickly, to the extent that we thought it actually looked
outdated even then.

If we'd had the time we might have gone inside, but I can't say the outside
shouted "come in and have a look", more like "this is as good as it gets".
:-/

Graeme

On 24 Mar 2005 08:14:42 GMT someone who may be Trevor Barton
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I'm afraid I can't see how it's rude to call someone by their name????

The rudeness is calling someone by their surname.

Things have changed since the 1940s. The use of surnames is now
largely confined to prison officers, who are trying to make their
charges feel small and academics, who (to put the best gloss on
things) are doing so for brevity.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On 24 Mar 2005 08:18:18 GMT someone who may be Graeme
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

If we'd had the time we might have gone inside, but I can't say the outside
shouted "come in and have a look", more like "this is as good as it gets".

If I had time to spare I would go across the road to Dynamic Earth.
That welcomes people and is interesting.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen said:

Quoted message said:

I'm afraid I can't see how it's rude to call someone by their name????

The rudeness is calling someone by their surname.

I think you'll find that use of surnames and nicknames derived from
surnames is alive and well in many quarters.

This over-familiar use of christian names can grate badly, and seems
especially prevalent in the 'caring professions'.

Mr C-F.

David Hansen said:

On 24 Mar 2005 08:14:42 GMT someone who may be Trevor Barton
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I'm afraid I can't see how it's rude to call someone by their name????

The rudeness is calling someone by their surname.

Things have changed since the 1940s. The use of surnames is now
largely confined to prison officers, who are trying to make their
charges feel small and academics, who (to put the best gloss on
things) are doing so for brevity.

Ah, so it's your myopic world-view and disenfranchisement with the
establishment that leads you to believe that calling someone by
their surname is rude. Why am I not suprised? It underlies your
opinions of just about everything else.

Are you really that insecure that you feel slighted by someone calling
you by your surname? I'm suprised at that, I must say, given the
robustness of your personal convictions I'd have expected any
imagined slight implied by my using your surname only would
have been like water off a duck's back. It was imagined, too.
As I pointed out before the slight was in the entire sentence,
but then I guess you've missed the wood for the trees, as they say.
No change there, then :-)

Sorry, Mr. Hansen, I'm afraid I can't bring myself to call you
David, because that would imply a familiarity with you that I
just don't feel.

Now isn't it your turn to tell me not to take up mind reading, or
"Nice try" or some such?

--
Trevor Barton

On 24 Mar 2005 11:27:37 GMT someone who may be Trevor Barton
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Ah, so it's your myopic world-view and disenfranchisement with the
establishment that leads you to believe that calling someone by
their surname is rude.

No.

Quoted message said:

Are you really that insecure that you feel slighted by someone calling
you by your surname?

Did I say that I feel slighted?

Quoted message said:

Now isn't it your turn to tell me not to take up mind reading, or
"Nice try" or some such?

Excellent. The training is working and I don't even need to use the
phrases:-)

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Simon Brooke said:

I think it would be too strong to say anyone's precisely defending it.

Indeed. I'd say the balance of opinion, such as there is, is "it was a
cockup" but that the more important thing is the fact that that's in the
past tense rather than contains the word "cockup".

Quoted message said:

As a building I think it is characterful and interesting

My problem with it as architecture is I find the nice bits are lost in
an overall fussiness that means the building as a whole doesn't have a
distinctive look. I really rather liked the original "upturned boats"
sketches that I saw announcing the commission, but that overall look
seems to have become a minor roofing detail :-(

Quoted message said:

folly, and the process was a [censored]. The inquests, however, have been
done to death and it's time to get on with life.

Which is actually a bit easier now the folks inside have passed one of
the most enlightened pieces of access legislation available anywhere in
the world, for example, and seem to have actually turned their brains on
with respect to it not being a good idea to force us to wear hats to go
for a ride. I'm rather looking forwards to being able to breathe
properly in a lot of public buildings too...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

David Hansen said:

On 24 Mar 2005 08:18:18 GMT someone who may be Graeme
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

If we'd had the time we might have gone inside, but I can't
say the outside shouted "come in and have a look", more like
"this is as good as it gets".

If I had time to spare I would go across the road to Dynamic
Earth. That welcomes people and is interesting.

Worth a visit but I think it's over priced.
--
Mark

1x1 wheel, 3x2 wheels & 1x3 wheels.