hello



sarah bennett wrote:
> [snip]
> In Hebrew, origins *are* definitions.

I guess this is where our difference of opinion lies. I have been
talking about what the word 'shiksa' means in English and the modern
American form of Yiddish. The entire discussion arose because an
English speaker used the word here, writing in English. In this
language context, it clearly should be defined as meaning simply a
non-Jewish female.

> I am not talking about words from
> one language that mean something else in another.

I am, in your terms.

> I am talking about a Hebrew word

I am talking about a Yinglish word.

> used by people who spoke Hebrew

used by people who speak modern American English, which includes a
number of commonly used Yiddish expressions.

[snip the rest as irrelevant]
 
aem wrote:
> sarah bennett wrote:
>
>>[snip]
>>In Hebrew, origins *are* definitions.
>
>
> I guess this is where our difference of opinion lies. I have been
> talking about what the word 'shiksa' means in English and the modern
> American form of Yiddish. The entire discussion arose because an
> English speaker used the word here, writing in English. In this
> language context, it clearly should be defined as meaning simply a
> non-Jewish female.
>

The original usage, even in this country (Yes, this is an international
forum, but I'll go along with your illusion that only people from the US
speak English.), is a pejorative, meaning "abomination". Just because
the original speakers of this word in this country were hesitant to tell
the people they were using these terms to refer to, what the actual
meanings were does not change the meaning. If I use the Dutch word
"lullepraat" to mean "daisies", tell people that is what it means, and
it happens to become a new American slang term (much to the amusement of
the Dutch, I am sure), it doesn't change what the word means.


>
>>I am not talking about words from
>>one language that mean something else in another.
>
>
> I am, in your terms.
>
>
>>I am talking about a Hebrew word
>
>
> I am talking about a Yinglish word.
>

Yinglish is not a language.

>
>>used by people who spoke Hebrew
>
>
> used by people who speak modern American English, which includes a
> number of commonly used Yiddish expressions.
>
> [snip the rest as irrelevant]
>

Well, I guess this proves that Americans are just plain stupid.


--

saerah

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams
 
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:47:42 GMT, sarah bennett
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Because most people think it means "gentile woman". And it doesn't.
>Personally, I would not fancy referring to myself as a slimy creeping
>thing, but you can do what you want :)
>
I understood that the word was an insult and also that most people
don't know it and don't mean it to be so. There's a wide range of
people's opinions about using ethnic "nicknames" for themselves and
others, but I'm with you on this and appreciate your pointing it out.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
 
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:47:42 GMT, sarah bennett
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Because most people think it means "gentile woman". And it doesn't.
>Personally, I would not fancy referring to myself as a slimy creeping
>thing, but you can do what you want :)
>
I understood that the word was an insult and also that most people
don't know it and don't mean it to be so. There's a wide range of
people's opinions about using ethnic "nicknames" for themselves and
others, but I'm with you on this and appreciate your pointing it out.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
 
Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> sarah bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > sarah bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>TammyM wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 07:30:49 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> > >>><[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>><snip>
> > >>>
> > >>>>http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 11-19-05 - Shiksa Varnishkes.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Shiksa Varnishkes!!!
> > >>>
> > >>> :)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>TammyM, saucy little shiksa :)
> > >>
> > >>um, you guys ought to know that "shiksa" has a meaning approximating
> > >>"vile creature".
> > >
> > >
> > > What is that makes you think we don't know what it means? :)
> > > I ain't no trollop, though. Mom wouldn't let me.
> >
> > Because most people think it means "gentile woman".
>
> I understand it to be a pejorative term.
>
> > And it doesn't. Personally, I would not fancy referring to myself as
> > a slimy creeping thing, but you can do what you want :)
>
> I don't take myself very seriously. It's an asset or a flaw, depending
> on whether you're me or someone else, I guess. :)

'Zactly. Same as "Yiddishe kup (thinks like a Jew)... coming from a
Jewish bubbe to her son a supreme compliment... but from from a white
supremist. Of course even a goy can figure that.

Yiddish is probably the most contexturally subtle, idiomatic, dynamic
language ever... which is why for its thousand years no one has come up
with a truly workable Yiddish dictionary... every word can have dozens
of meanings, every phrase hundreds, even thousands... you not only need
to hear the stress points you really need to see the speaker's facial
expressions as well. Every Yiddish speaking neighborhood has it's own
version, even within households... which is why Yiddish speaking Jews
argue so much. Btw, very, very, very few Israelis speak Yiddish.
Yiddish and Hebrew share an alphabet but that's where any similarity
ends... Yiddish is Germanic, Hebrew is Semitic. During the early
1900s there were more than 10 million Yiddish speakers world wide, now
less than 30 thousand. If not for Yiddish there'd be no modern
comedy... about all you'd have to laugh at is blacks relentlessly
echoing mofu, ****a, and biatch... sad.

Sheldon
 
Curly Sue wrote:
> > I understood that the word was an insult and also that most people
> don't know it and don't mean it to be so. There's a wide range of
> people's opinions about using ethnic "nicknames" for themselves and
> others, but I'm with you on this and appreciate your pointing it out.

Du ferstachaist Yiddish... mitten a shicksa name like Curly Sue...
nishst ferdraitah meina kup. Shicksa means literally a non Jewish
female[period]... no more, no less Any conotation attached, positive
or negative, is totally dependant on the context confered by the
speaker. Actually the only negative context can be associated is from
the fact that a shiksa can't produce a Jewish child, but then the only
negative is that it's the Jewish parent's son who is the putz... but
conveys no negativity whatsoever towards the shiksa, not that she's
bad, good, or indifferent, only towards the son because it's not
possible for a non Jewish woman to bear a Jewish child.... and in fact
any left over negativity from that confered on the son automatically
gets confered on the Jewish parents for raising such a shanda (an
embarrassment), a putz. But then by the time that shiksa daughter in
law produces the fifth healthy grandchild she gets raised to sainthood
in the eyes of the parents, she becomes their lovely shiksa Goddess,
she was never anything evil... but the son, unless he becomes a doctor
he'll forever be the putz. Shiksa is only an insult when coming from
bitter/envious lips, but then so is everything from bitter/envious
lips, and that's evil.

Sheldon
 
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