Heart Rate Zone

yoyo583 said:

Hey Everyone,
My name is James Ralph and I am a personal trainer through the National Academy of Sport Medicine-thats right we are the trainers that work with 24 Hour Fitness and the US Olympic Team.
I have been reading over the threads and have found that many people are confused as to how to best train their heart. I am posting this thread is a hope to make it very easy.
To begin, you must first find your cardio efficiency or maxium heart rate. This is very simple-take 220 and subtract your age. So a 23 year olds maxium heart rate is 197 beats per minute.
There are three zones in which you need to train. The first zone is targeted to keep your heart rate at 65-75% of your maxium. So for the 23 year old this would be 128-148 beats per minute (BPM). Zone two is 80-85% of your maxium so 158-167 BPM. Zone three is 86-90% of your maxium so 169-177 BPM.
How do you know which zone you need to work out in? Well you first need to see what zone you are in. This is done by completing a Rockport Walk Test. This is simple...get on a treadmil and walk a mile as quickly as possible. Take your heart rate upon completion. Complete the information at exrx.netRockport.htmlOpen ↗. You will see a poor, fair, or excellent rating. If you are poor, you need to start working out in Zone 1, Zone 2 is for the fair and Zone 3 is for the excellent.
You can click on the rating to see examples of excercises you can do, however, training the heart and cardio is very easy. Always do your zone workout for a minium of 30 minutes. Slowly increase the distance you travel within the 30 minutes or increase the weight. The goal is to slowly increase you heart rate. So week one you are at 128 BPM for 30 minutes. Ok now in week 2 try for 2 138 BPM for 30 minutes,l ect...

I hope this was helpful. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me at www.TrailheadPerformance.com or [email hidden].

Taking 220 minus your age to get your max HR is not very accurate at all. I know many people with higher rates than that formula suggests. I have been cycling for 15years & max HR has been the same since day one. I am 40 & max HR is 210-212, I can hit these pretty regular in training or racing. Do you have any suggestions to why this is?

jeff828 said:

Taking 220 minus your age to get your max HR is not very accurate at all. I know many people with higher rates than that formula suggests. I have been cycling for 15years & max HR has been the same since day one. I am 40 & max HR is 210-212, I can hit these pretty regular in training or racing. Do you have any suggestions to why this is?

I think its quite clear. Your not ageing. 😉

At least I can sleep well tonight knowing that our Olympians are equipped with the cutting edge of sports science. 🙄

yoyo583 said:

Hey Everyone,
My name is James Ralph and I am a personal trainer through the National Academy of Sport Medicine-thats right we are the trainers that work with 24 Hour Fitness and the US Olympic Team.
I have been reading over the threads and have found that many people are confused as to how to best train their heart. I am posting this thread is a hope to make it very easy.
To begin, you must first find your cardio efficiency or maxium heart rate. This is very simple-take 220 and subtract your age. So a 23 year olds maxium heart rate is 197 beats per minute.
There are three zones in which you need to train. The first zone is targeted to keep your heart rate at 65-75% of your maxium. So for the 23 year old this would be 128-148 beats per minute (BPM). Zone two is 80-85% of your maxium so 158-167 BPM. Zone three is 86-90% of your maxium so 169-177 BPM.
How do you know which zone you need to work out in? Well you first need to see what zone you are in. This is done by completing a Rockport Walk Test. This is simple...get on a treadmil and walk a mile as quickly as possible. Take your heart rate upon completion. Complete the information at exrx.netRockport.htmlOpen ↗. You will see a poor, fair, or excellent rating. If you are poor, you need to start working out in Zone 1, Zone 2 is for the fair and Zone 3 is for the excellent.
You can click on the rating to see examples of excercises you can do, however, training the heart and cardio is very easy. Always do your zone workout for a minium of 30 minutes. Slowly increase the distance you travel within the 30 minutes or increase the weight. The goal is to slowly increase you heart rate. So week one you are at 128 BPM for 30 minutes. Ok now in week 2 try for 2 138 BPM for 30 minutes,l ect...

I hope this was helpful. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me at www.TrailheadPerformance.com or [email hidden].

You are so wrong. I've only been training one year and even I know you're wrong.

jeff828 said:

Taking 220 minus your age to get your max HR is not very accurate at all. I know many people with higher rates than that formula suggests. I have been cycling for 15years & max HR has been the same since day one. I am 40 & max HR is 210-212, I can hit these pretty regular in training or racing. Do you have any suggestions to why this is?

Hey Jeff,
Thanks for the post. Unforentaley, 220 is the standard and unless you have been to the lab for testing. If you are still at 210-212 that isn't necessarily a bad thing. These numbers are accurate but everyone varies a little. This is why the rest HR is 60-80 BPM. My question would be diet, stress level, any know conditions of high blood pressure, intake of caffine products, ect... Another thing to remember is just because you can pump you heart to the maximum doesn't mean you should continue to do so. I know a couple of guys that are have been active all their life yet suffered a stroke or a heart attack because they continued to think it was great to work out at their maximum. By continuing to work outside of zone 1-3, you are running the risk of damaging your heart instead of improving your cardio.

Another question is your breathing...typically people exhibit a higher maxium heart rate because they aren't breathing correctly or their is an inefficency somewhere. For example, one of my athletes had a higher heart rate then some of the others and we found if was the bike frame. He was crunched over and thus placing more pressure on his diaphram and as a result was not getting enough air or breathing as efficiently as he could be. To compensate with the need for oxygen to the muscles, his heart rate picked up. We changed a little of the geometry of the bike and made it so he was stretched out more and his heart rate lessened by 10-12 BPM.

I hope this helped. If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask.

James
www.trailheadperformance.com

kuan said:

You are so wrong. I've only been training one year and even I know you're wrong.

If you feel something was inaccurate, then please state your credentials and what you disagree with. Sports Science is just that-a science. A science is comprised of hypothesis and upon inability to prove a hypothesis wrong, we come to a scientific fact. If you feel you have the proof to challenge the fact and return to the hypothesis please let me know. We are always trying new things here and as long as you proposal is within reason and backed by knowledge of sport science and not just a trainee, I will be more than happy to put it to the test.

James
Trailhead Performance

yoyo583 said:

Hey Jeff,
Thanks for the post. Unforentaley, 220 is the standard and unless you have been to the lab for testing. If you are still at 210-212 that isn't necessarily a bad thing. These numbers are accurate but everyone varies a little. This is why the rest HR is 60-80 BPM. My question would be diet, stress level, any know conditions of high blood pressure, intake of caffine products, ect... Another thing to remember is just because you can pump you heart to the maximum doesn't mean you should continue to do so. I know a couple of guys that are have been active all their life yet suffered a stroke or a heart attack because they continued to think it was great to work out at their maximum. By continuing to work outside of zone 1-3, you are running the risk of damaging your heart instead of improving your cardio.

Another question is your breathing...typically people exhibit a higher maxium heart rate because they aren't breathing correctly or their is an inefficency somewhere. For example, one of my athletes had a higher heart rate then some of the others and we found if was the bike frame. He was crunched over and thus placing more pressure on his diaphram and as a result was not getting enough air or breathing as efficiently as he could be. To compensate with the need for oxygen to the muscles, his heart rate picked up. We changed a little of the geometry of the bike and made it so he was stretched out more and his heart rate lessened by 10-12 BPM.

I hope this helped. If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask.

James
www.trailheadperformance.com

220 - age very rarely works and is quite often completely inaccurate; not even useful as a guide.

I wish people would stop preaching that [censored]. The human body is way to complex for a such a simple formula to work.

Surely someone who works in the sports training field knows this???

I am 45 years old and for the last 10 years I have regularly seen 195 or higher on a steep climb where I didn't want to lose touch with the bunch. On the magtrainer at my "official" max HR of 175, I am barely sweating or breathing heavy. 185 is where I know I am working. Same as for the road. 185 is the norm for me. A few weeks ago, was chatting to another shaved loonatic, who gave your comment about "breathing much deeper will drop your HR" which amazed me at the time, as I figured there ain't nuthing I don't already know, but...because I have an open mind, am always ready to listen and take things on board without going "oh yeah right, that's rubbish"
I have consciously made an effort to do so, to breath much much deeper than normal, but as yet have not noticed any marked reduction in HR.
Having said that, I have a cheap HR monitor (Oregon) because I won't buy a Polar (can't replace battery yourself/not supposed to) and maybe being a cheapie, you get wot you pay for 😕

The fact of the matter is we go off a standard. Anyone in the medical field know that we have to go off standards. For instance, if I see someone crouched over and they are cool and clamy with a heart rate over 100 BPM and they haven't been working out-I know they are in cardiac disress...why? BECAUSE WE HAVE STANDARDS. 60-80BPM is the standard for someone who is sitting. 220 is the standard maximum. If for some reason you are in need of knowing exactly what your maximum is then please go see a physician and then the lab. There you will get to breathe through a tube while walking on a tread mill and guess what? In the end, you were given the same test I explain in my first post called the Rockport Walk Test. These tests are the standard. YES PEOPLE CAN DIFFER. The greatest thing I have found in my career is people try to preach that the body is complex. While this is true in certain areas, physical training and sport science is not brain surgery. It is science-we have a hypothesis and then we attempt to prove it wrong. When it passes the test of time, it become scientific fact. If you feel that you are still correct, I would suggest you contact:
Dr. Richard Birrer, M.D.
Dr. Thomas Carter, MD
Dr. George Davies, DPT, MEd, PT, SCS, ATC, LAT, CSCS
Dr. Reed Humphrey, PhD
Dr. Stephen Kraus, PhD
Dr. Craig Liebenson, D.C.
Dr. David McFarland, PhD
Dr. Craig Phelps, DO, FAOASM
Gay Riley, MS, RD, CCN
Dr. Jay Smith, MD
Dr. Jacques Souadjian, MD, F.A.C.P.
Dr. Ina Stephens, MD
Dr. Kevin Steele, PhD
Dr. Alan Titchenal, PhD
These doctors make up the National Academy of Sport Medicine scientific advisory board. You may also contact the Performance Advisory Board:

Tom Colt, MS, PT, ATC
P. Dean Cummings, MD
Gregg Farnam, ATC, NASM-PES
Monte Hessler, DC
Dr. Craig Phelps, DO, FAOASM
Aaron Nelson, ATC, NASM-PES, CSCS
Robb Rogers, M-Ed, CSCS, MSCC
Joe Sharpe, ATC, CSCS, NASM-PES
Casey Smith, MS, ATC, NASM-PES
Steve Watterson, ATC, CSCS

Please let these doctors know your credentials, scientific proof and ask that they change the standard for sport medicine.

James

Rhubarb said:

220 - age very rarely works and is quite often completely inaccurate; not even useful as a guide.

I wish people would stop preaching that [censored]. The human body is way to complex for a such a simple formula to work.

Surely someone who works in the sports training field knows this???

Breathing takes time to change your HR. The reason why is you are retraining your entire respiratory system. This means you are increasing the strength in your diaphram, increasing lung capacity, ect... This take time and I doubt you would see a noticeable difference before 3-6 months. This is one the reason many athletes train in high altitude and compete at sea level.

James
www.TrailheadPerformance.com

Aussie Steve said:

I am 45 years old and for the last 10 years I have regularly seen 195 or higher on a steep climb where I didn't want to lose touch with the bunch. On the magtrainer at my "official" max HR of 175, I am barely sweating or breathing heavy. 185 is where I know I am working. Same as for the road. 185 is the norm for me. A few weeks ago, was chatting to another shaved loonatic, who gave your comment about "breathing much deeper will drop your HR" which amazed me at the time, as I figured there ain't nuthing I don't already know, but...because I have an open mind, am always ready to listen and take things on board without going "oh yeah right, that's rubbish"
I have consciously made an effort to do so, to breath much much deeper than normal, but as yet have not noticed any marked reduction in HR.
Having said that, I have a cheap HR monitor (Oregon) because I won't buy a Polar (can't replace battery yourself/not supposed to) and maybe being a cheapie, you get wot you pay for 😕

yoyo583 said:

Unforentaley, 220 is the standard and unless you have been to the lab for testing.

220 may be the standard, but anyone who is here reading threads on HR Zones probably uses a HRM in their workouts and already has a much better idea what their HRmax is than what the standard formula spits out.

Then there's those sample exercise programs.... are we supposed to walk our bikes during those workouts, or just leave them home? You might scan a few of the threads here James, we cover some pretty in-depth topics.

The programs you see are meant for those walking so since you are a biker I think that would go without saying. Also the HRM measures your heart rate during a work out and then calculates what your maximum rate should be. You know how it finds that? A formula. A HRM only shows information about your HR during the exercise. This doesn't show the maximum heart rate for your age. Only a formula can show you that unless you plan on working out until you pass out and then have someone take you HR while your laying on the floor suffering from a stroke. I would think a formula vs the stroke would be the preferred method.

frenchyge said:

220 may be the standard, but anyone who is here reading threads on HR Zones probably uses a HRM in their workouts and already has a much better idea what their HRmax is than what the standard formula spits out.

Then there's those sample exercise programs.... are we supposed to walk our bikes during those workouts, or just leave them home? You might scan a few of the threads here James, we cover some pretty in-depth topics.

yoyo583 said:

The fact of the matter is we go off a standard. Anyone in the medical field know that we have to go off standards.

Most people in the coaching field tend to prefer individualized performance testing because it's much more meaningful to the person being coached than the standard. That doesn't necessarily mean "going to the lab," but rather HRs determined by an XX-min maximal effort or the like.

I didn't see any links for coaching services on that website -- just cool music and videos of people jumping off cliffs on their bikes. Are you a USAC/NORBA certified cycling coach?

Edit: nevermind, I think I found the NASM certified personal trainer info (nasm.orgcpt.aspxOpen ↗). Apologies if that is not what you're referring to.

That is true. We prefer to reference the individual however, even when with the individual we always start with the standard until they prove differently. My degree is in Sport Science and I am certified with NASM. If you click on the Bike Club you will find some of the training sessions that we provide to the common bikers, however, we specialize in one on one training with the individual. This type of training is only offered to a select few and thus is not advertised.

frenchyge said:

Most people in the coaching field tend to prefer individualized performance testing because it's much more meaningful to the person being coached than the standard. That doesn't necessarily mean "going to the lab," but rather HRs determined by an XX-min maximal effort or the like.

I didn't see any links for coaching services on that website -- just cool music and videos of people jumping off cliffs on their bikes. Are you a USAC/NORBA certified cycling coach?

What is the point of using the standard when (a) it is highly likely not to be correct and (b) if you’re interested in training using heart rate zones you are likely to have a HR monitor.

And if you do own a HR monitor it is not brain surgery to work out a likely max HR which is much more accurate than said standard formula.

To most athletes, amateur to pro the standard max HR is not accurate and redundant!

There is no contact info for those guys.

Why don't you ask these guys if they worked out there HR zones by getting their max HR from 220 - Age?

Alexandre Vinokourov
Alejandro Valverde
Andrey Kashechkin Carlos Sastre
José Angel Gomez MarchanteThomas Danielson
Samuel Sánchez
Vladimir Karpets
Manuel Beltran
Luis Pérez

yoyo583 said:

The fact of the matter is we go off a standard. Anyone in the medical field know that we have to go off standards. For instance, if I see someone crouched over and they are cool and clamy with a heart rate over 100 BPM and they haven't been working out-I know they are in cardiac disress...why? BECAUSE WE HAVE STANDARDS. 60-80BPM is the standard for someone who is sitting. 220 is the standard maximum. If for some reason you are in need of knowing exactly what your maximum is then please go see a physician and then the lab. There you will get to breathe through a tube while walking on a tread mill and guess what? In the end, you were given the same test I explain in my first post called the Rockport Walk Test. These tests are the standard. YES PEOPLE CAN DIFFER. The greatest thing I have found in my career is people try to preach that the body is complex. While this is true in certain areas, physical training and sport science is not brain surgery. It is science-we have a hypothesis and then we attempt to prove it wrong. When it passes the test of time, it become scientific fact. If you feel that you are still correct, I would suggest you contact:
Dr. Richard Birrer, M.D.
Dr. Thomas Carter, MD
Dr. George Davies, DPT, MEd, PT, SCS, ATC, LAT, CSCS
Dr. Reed Humphrey, PhD
Dr. Stephen Kraus, PhD
Dr. Craig Liebenson, D.C.
Dr. David McFarland, PhD
Dr. Craig Phelps, DO, FAOASM
Gay Riley, MS, RD, CCN
Dr. Jay Smith, MD
Dr. Jacques Souadjian, MD, F.A.C.P.
Dr. Ina Stephens, MD
Dr. Kevin Steele, PhD
Dr. Alan Titchenal, PhD
These doctors make up the National Academy of Sport Medicine scientific advisory board. You may also contact the Performance Advisory Board:

Tom Colt, MS, PT, ATC
P. Dean Cummings, MD
Gregg Farnam, ATC, NASM-PES
Monte Hessler, DC
Dr. Craig Phelps, DO, FAOASM
Aaron Nelson, ATC, NASM-PES, CSCS
Robb Rogers, M-Ed, CSCS, MSCC
Joe Sharpe, ATC, CSCS, NASM-PES
Casey Smith, MS, ATC, NASM-PES
Steve Watterson, ATC, CSCS

Please let these doctors know your credentials, scientific proof and ask that they change the standard for sport medicine.

James

As Yoyo says:

Quoted post said:

Another thing to remember is just because you can pump you heart to the maximum doesn't mean you should continue to do so. I know a couple of guys that are have been active all their life yet suffered a stroke or a heart attack because they continued to think it was great to work out at their maximum. By continuing to work outside of zone 1-3, you are running the risk of damaging your heart instead of improving your cardio.

There you are RD, I told you you are going to damage your heart!😄 😄 😄 😄
TYSON

Rhubarb said:

What is the point of using the standard when (a) it is highly likely not to be correct and (b) if you’re interested in training using heart rate zones you are likely to have a HR monitor.

And if you do own a HR monitor it is not brain surgery to work out a likely max HR which is much more accurate than said standard formula.

To most athletes, amateur to pro the standard max HR is not accurate and redundant!

There is no contact info for those guys.

Why don't you ask these guys if they worked out there HR zones by getting their max HR from 220 - Age?

Alexandre Vinokourov
Alejandro Valverde
Andrey Kashechkin Carlos Sastre
José Angel Gomez MarchanteThomas Danielson
Samuel Sánchez
Vladimir Karpets
Manuel Beltran
Luis Pérez

Then what formula do you use to calculate max HR if you are just using a HRM? How are you calculating this? Guessing or do you actually follow a formula...odds are you are using a formula to tell you what the max is. The names you provided are not did not win the Tour de France...Lance was trained at the USOC and last I checked 24 Hour Fitness was his sponsor and NASM was the training team. In the end, I am not hear to discuss the records of foreign athletes or their training schedule. The reason why is because you don't know how they train or their max HR...that is a guarded secret and any athlete that is worth their weight in gold will keep that information confidential. Lastly, if you like to discuss a different method please let me know your certification-NPFT, NASM, NCCPT, ect... I work with a lot of people that have a different outlook on training and can address many of those issues. Also if you want the contact information for the doctors, please go to www.nasm.org. Hope that helps.

yoyo583 said:

My degree is in Sport Science and I am certified with NASM.

then you would know that the SD (or is it SEM?) for 220-age is +/- 15 bpm, which renders it useless for advocating a HRmax for an individual.

No sports scientist, or exercise physiologist with half a brain would advocate 220-age as being exact for exercise prescription for an individual.

I would *love* to know how you found it was a bike frame that caused someone to have a higher HRmax than someone else?

Sports science may not be brain surgery, but you seem to be failing at sports science.

Ric "sports scientist, coach"

yoyo583 said:

Then what formula do you use to calculate max HR if you are just using a HRM? How are you calculating this? Guessing or do you actually follow a formula...odds are you are using a formula to tell you what the max is. The names you provided are not did not win the Tour de France...Lance was trained at the USOC and last I checked 24 Hour Fitness was his sponsor and NASM was the training team. In the end, I am not hear to discuss the records of foreign athletes or their training schedule. The reason why is because you don't know how they train or their max HR...that is a guarded secret and any athlete that is worth their weight in gold will keep that information confidential. Lastly, if you like to discuss a different method please let me know your certification-NPFT, NASM, NCCPT, ect... I work with a lot of people that have a different outlook on training and can address many of those issues. Also if you want the contact information for the doctors, please go to www.nasm.org. Hope that helps.

Are you saying Armstrong one the TdF 7 times because he worked out his HR zones by using 220 - Age?

Come on man!

Yep, sure I use a formula to work out a probable max HR. And my point is that it is more accurate than 220 - Age, because it actually involves data generated from 'my' body. It's a crazy concept, I know!

If we were to do a poll of all the cyclists on this site who use a HRM and have somehow worked out a probable max HR using a number of different methods, to which they personally find suitable; I am sure the vast majority would not have the same max HR as 220 - their age.

I cannot believe I am having an argument with a cycling coach about this!!

220 - Age is redundant for any athlete who wants to take their training half seriously!