Headset life

DeF said:

About 14 months ago, I replaced the stock steel
forks on my roadie with some carbon forks. The
new forks were threadless so I needed a new headset
as well. The LBS installed a Ritchey Scuzzy Logic
(or some similar lame marketing motived name).

Over the last couple of months, the bike had
developed a horrid crunch/groan/grind when I got
out of the saddle. After much fiddling, I found
the lower bearing of the headset was quite pitted.
I've cleaned and greased it but will replace it
when the one I've ordered comes from OS. I'm a bit
surprised that the headset has worn out so quickly.
The horrid noise has gone but surely I'm not going
to have replace a headset every 18 months or so.
Getting the bracket of the top of the forks is going
to be a challenge.

DeF.

--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
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Maybe the stem wasn't tightened appropriately or the cup thingys not installed on the fork and frame straight.

Should last onger than you got.

sinus said:

DeF said:

About 14 months ago, I replaced the stock steel
forks on my roadie with some carbon forks. The
new forks were threadless so I needed a new headset
as well. The LBS installed a Ritchey Scuzzy Logic
(or some similar lame marketing motived name).

Over the last couple of months, the bike had
developed a horrid crunch/groan/grind when I got
out of the saddle. After much fiddling, I found
the lower bearing of the headset was quite pitted.
I've cleaned and greased it but will replace it
when the one I've ordered comes from OS. I'm a bit
surprised that the headset has worn out so quickly.
The horrid noise has gone but surely I'm not going
to have replace a headset every 18 months or so.
Getting the bracket of the top of the forks is going
to be a challenge.

DeF.

--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

Maybe the stem wasn't tightened appropriately or the cup thingys not
installed on the fork and frame straight.

Should last onger than you got.

I agree. I did have to tighten the headset down a bit not
long after I got it. I'm guessing the parts where not properly
pressed into the frame and fork. Still, that was ages ago,
long before the horrid noise started. I'll be more careful
after I've installed the new one.

DeF.

--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

I have averaged approx 20,000km per headset (standard 1 inch with quill
stems). Have yet to put that much mileage into my one aheadset stem,
which has both wider bearings and a stiffer steerer tube.

PiledHigher

"DeF" <""d.farrow\"@your finger.murdoch.edu.au"> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

when the one I've ordered comes from OS. I'm a bit
surprised that the headset has worn out so quickly.
The horrid noise has gone but surely I'm not going
to have replace a headset every 18 months or so.
Getting the bracket of the top of the forks is going
to be a challenge.

Poor tensioning of the bearings greatly shortens the bearing life. Too
loose or too tight - either way is bad news. Same goes for head tubes where
the faces aren't exactly parallel.
The bottom race tends to go the first in my experience, usually because it
also suffers the most amount of [censored] getting in there sprayed up from the
front wheel, as well as any moisture and [censored] getting in from the top
bearing can run down the steerer and get into the bottom bearing. If it
didn't have much grease in there to begin with it starts life behind the
8-ball, especially if it's got a cartdrige bearing installed 'dry'.

Getting the cone off the top of the forks is easy if you want to throw away
the cone- hammer it off with a screwdriver, working your way around.
Getting the new one on is must more difficult, a special tool is important
to not damage the new one's face, and getting it to start on square.......
whacking it with a bit of tubular pipe isn't recommended :-)

Gemm

Gemma_k said:

"DeF" <""d.farrow\"@your finger.murdoch.edu.au"> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

when the one I've ordered comes from OS. I'm a bit
surprised that the headset has worn out so quickly.
The horrid noise has gone but surely I'm not going
to have replace a headset every 18 months or so.
Getting the bracket of the top of the forks is going
to be a challenge.

Poor tensioning of the bearings greatly shortens the bearing life. Too
loose or too tight - either way is bad news. Same goes for head tubes where
the faces aren't exactly parallel.

Additionally, there's some doubt as to the longevity of integrated
headsets. Chris King has some interesting things to say about them
here :

http://www.chrisking.com/tech/int_headsets_explained/int_hds_explain_1.html

Bearing in mind (no pun intended) that CK doesn't make integrated
headsets and that IH's tend to be specially manufactured for each
frame, so that article has some bias built in.

Quoted message said:

The bottom race tends to go the first in my experience, usually because it
also suffers the most amount of [censored] getting in there sprayed up from the
front wheel, as well as any moisture and [censored] getting in from the top
bearing can run down the steerer and get into the bottom bearing. If it
didn't have much grease in there to begin with it starts life behind the
8-ball, especially if it's got a cartdrige bearing installed 'dry'.

Getting the cone off the top of the forks is easy if you want to throw away
the cone- hammer it off with a screwdriver, working your way around.
Getting the new one on is must more difficult, a special tool is important
to not damage the new one's face, and getting it to start on square.......
whacking it with a bit of tubular pipe isn't recommended :-)

It can be done with the frame and a wooden block quite safely though -
not sure about an integrated headset though .. but probably the same
....

Bleve said:

Gemma_k said:

"DeF" <""d.farrow\"@your finger.murdoch.edu.au"> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

when the one I've ordered comes from OS. I'm a bit
surprised that the headset has worn out so quickly.
The horrid noise has gone but surely I'm not going
to have replace a headset every 18 months or so.
Getting the bracket of the top of the forks is going
to be a challenge.

Poor tensioning of the bearings greatly shortens the bearing life. Too
loose or too tight - either way is bad news. Same goes for head tubes where
the faces aren't exactly parallel.

Additionally, there's some doubt as to the longevity of integrated
headsets. Chris King has some interesting things to say about them
here :

http://www.chrisking.com/tech/int_headsets_explained/int_hds_explain_1.html

Bearing in mind (no pun intended) that CK doesn't make integrated
headsets and that IH's tend to be specially manufactured for each
frame, so that article has some bias built in.

My mistake, DeF's not talking about an integrated headset! 18 months
out of a cheap headset that gets used in all weather isn't too bad.
Water kills them dead as does having them incorrectly tensioned or
greased.

Bleve said:

Bleve wrote:
18 months out of a cheap headset that gets used in all weather isn't too bad.

Not bad for the LBS maybe. Personally I think it is bad.

What sort of price point do you need to go to get a headset that will last?

sinus said:

Bleve said:

Bleve wrote:
18 months out of a cheap headset that gets used in all weather isn't
too bad.

Not bad for the LBS maybe. Personally I think it is bad.

They're not expensive, and it's a reasonably quick job. BB's wear out
too ... esp when ridden in the wet.

Quoted message said:

What sort of price point do you need to go to get a headset that will
last?

I'm not sure, I got sick of replacing them, so splashed for a CK on the
[censored]-one.
I've used scuzzi logic (ritchey) and it wore out, same with Token
(expected, token are cheapy bits ...). My 1400 still has a Token
headset, replacing it every year isn't such a big deal on that bike. I
don't mind if it gets a few (more!) scratches.

quote='Bleve'sinus said:

Bleve said:

Bleve wrote:
18 months out of a cheap headset that gets used in all weather isn't
too bad.

Not bad for the LBS maybe. Personally I think it is bad.

They're not expensive, and it's a reasonably quick job. BB's wear out
too ... esp when ridden in the wet.

Quoted message said:

What sort of price point do you need to go to get a headset that will
last?

I'm not sure, I got sick of replacing them, so splashed for a CK on the
[censored]-one.
I've used scuzzi logic (ritchey) and it wore out, same with Token
(expected, token are cheapy bits ...). My 1400 still has a Token
headset, replacing it every year isn't such a big deal on that bike. I
don't mind if it gets a few (more!) scratches.[/QUOTE]
What tools are required to replace a headset? On my current assumptions, the difference between replacing a BB and a headset is I can do the BB but I have to pay a shop for a headset. That would be good incentive to get highest quality.

PS. I struggle in my mind with the transition from threaded cup and cone ball bearings to threadless ahead.

In article <[email hidden]>,

sinus said:

I struggle in my mind with the transition from threaded cup and
cone ball bearings to threadless ahead.

Conceptually, they're not much different. See here <http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/?id=howfix_headtypes> and here <http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/?id=howfix_threadless>, as well as Sheldon's site.

--
Shane Stanley

Shane Stanley said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

sinus said:

I struggle in my mind with the transition from threaded cup and
cone ball bearings to threadless ahead.

Conceptually, they're not much different. See here <http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/?id=howfix_headtypes> and here <http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/?id=howfix_threadless>, as well as Sheldon's site.

--
Shane Stanley

so replacing (vs. adjusting) still requires the same sort of tools that are not generally in a home mechanics tool kit.

Gemma_k said:

"DeF" <""d.farrow\"@your finger.murdoch.edu.au"> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

when the one I've ordered comes from OS. I'm a bit
surprised that the headset has worn out so quickly.
The horrid noise has gone but surely I'm not going
to have replace a headset every 18 months or so.
Getting the bracket of the top of the forks is going
to be a challenge.

Poor tensioning of the bearings greatly shortens the bearing life. Too
loose or too tight - either way is bad news. Same goes for head tubes where
the faces aren't exactly parallel.
The bottom race tends to go the first in my experience, usually because it
also suffers the most amount of [censored] getting in there sprayed up from the
front wheel, as well as any moisture and [censored] getting in from the top
bearing can run down the steerer and get into the bottom bearing. If it
didn't have much grease in there to begin with it starts life behind the
8-ball, especially if it's got a cartdrige bearing installed 'dry'.

Getting the cone off the top of the forks is easy if you want to throw away
the cone- hammer it off with a screwdriver, working your way around.
Getting the new one on is must more difficult, a special tool is important
to not damage the new one's face, and getting it to start on square.......
whacking it with a bit of tubular pipe isn't recommended :-)

Gemm

My guess is that the short life is partly due to poor tension
early in its life. I did have to tighten it up not long after
it was installed. There was certainly lots of road [censored] as well.

I didn't mention it in my original post but when I took the headset
apart, the race at the bottom had come apart. There are two races,
the balls and a hard, ridged plastic clip that snaps the whole thing
together. The plastic clip is a bit damaged. I cleaned it all up,
generous grease and put it back together with (hopefully!) all the
balls (may have lost one or two on the floor of the shed). Noise
has gone but the races have some pitting and headset feels "lumpy"
when rotated with wheel off the ground.

I've replaced threaded headsets before with no dramas and this one
doesn't seem much different. The only problem I'm anticipating is
getting the bearing support off the forks. The carbon forks are
nearly as wide as the support so there's not much room for getting
a drifter and a hammer in there. Much care to be taken methinks.

The new one I've ordered is this one: http://tinyurl.com/qhowf
In my mind, needle bearings should stand up to higher loads
than spherical bearings. Bit worried about alignment though.
I've probably got enough [censored] kicking around the shed to make
up any special stuff I might need.

DeF.

--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

sinus said:

Shane Stanley said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

sinus said:

I struggle in my mind with the transition from threaded cup and
cone ball bearings to threadless ahead.

Conceptually, they're not much different. See here
<http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/?id=howfix_headtypes> and here
<http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/?id=howfix_threadless>, as well as
Sheldon's site.

--
Shane Stanley

so replacing (vs. adjusting) still requires the same sort of tools that
are not generally in a home mechanics tool kit.

My experience has been that you don't need the fancy presses
or tubular drifts.

Old cones can be removed using a long flat bladed screwdriver
and a mallet by gently tapping around the cone from the inside.

New cones can be re-seated by using a piece of wood and a mallet.
Care is required but it can be done.

The only tricky bit is the race/support that sits on the forks.
For that, I put it all together, go for a ride. My weight plus
road buzz seats it nicely and I make sure tools for tightening
any slack are in my back pocket.

So far, the only headset failure I've had (besides wearing out
after years of use) has been one put in by the LBS!

All that being said, I would worry about doing some of the above
with a modern carbon frame. Steel is more forgiving of slight
errors.

DeF.

--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

In article <[email hidden]>,

sinus said:

so replacing (vs. adjusting) still requires the same sort of tools that
are not generally in a home mechanics tool kit.

It depends on the type. If it's really stuffed, you can get it out with
a hammer and screwdriver -- doesn't matter if you break it. You can also
buld a cheap press with a length of threaded steal, some large washers,
and a couple of bolts. People have had success putting on crown races
with suitable size plastic pipe.

--
Shane Stanley

"DeF" wrote

Quoted message said:

Over the last couple of months, the bike had
developed a horrid crunch/groan/grind when I got
out of the saddle. After much fiddling, I found
the lower bearing of the headset was quite pitted.
I've cleaned and greased it but will replace it
when the one I've ordered comes from OS. I'm a bit
surprised that the headset has worn out so quickly.

My bike has a tapered roller bearing headset. It's a work of art and
beautiful to behold. Cup and balls is just so primitive.

Theo

Theo Bekkers said:

"DeF" wrote

Quoted message said:

Over the last couple of months, the bike had
developed a horrid crunch/groan/grind when I got
out of the saddle. After much fiddling, I found
the lower bearing of the headset was quite pitted.
I've cleaned and greased it but will replace it
when the one I've ordered comes from OS. I'm a bit
surprised that the headset has worn out so quickly.

My bike has a tapered roller bearing headset. It's a work of art and
beautiful to behold. Cup and balls is just so primitive.

Theo

Funny you should mention that. The replacement I have on
order uses roller bearings: http://tinyurl.com/qhowf

Do you know what kind you have on your bike?

DeF.

--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

"DeF" wrote

Quoted message said:

Theo Bekkers wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My bike has a tapered roller bearing headset. It's a work of art

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

beautiful to behold. Cup and balls is just so primitive.

Quoted message said:

Funny you should mention that. The replacement I have on
order uses roller bearings: http://tinyurl.com/qhowf

Do you know what kind you have on your bike?

Mine came with the bike as standard equipment. A Conti Columbus frame
with Galli-Pro gear. Came with singles but I've also got a pair of 32
spoke clinchers with it.

Theo