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Headset Cup Press Tool Question

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Cycling Equipment
Published
17 January 2004
Last activity
25 January 2004
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Nedman
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  1. "onefred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "wannagofast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    >I used the same approach and since I only do a headset every few years,


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >just return the parts to Home Depot as there was really no wear.

    onefred said:

    Home Depot is the DIY'ers paradise!!!

    I wondered, do you think that's acceptable behavior? I don't.

    I've never been in a Home Depot, I meant, just in general, to purchase something, use it, and
    return it.

    No, I don't think it's ethical, but I ain't his momma either...

    You can try to punish him if you feel it's your place, but I believe this is an issue for Home
    Depot and wannagofast's momma. If you really want to help, try to visit Home Depot more often to
    help make-up for people that abuse their liberal return policy.

    None of this changes the fact that Home Depot is the DIY'ers paradise!!! Woohoo!

    Radio Shack is the DIYers nightmare. Unless you need an RCA patch cable or 'Shaq' doll, they never
    have [censored] on their shelves! Boohoo.

    Dave

    Dear Dave,

    If you were a little more patient at Radio Shack, perhaps someone else would return the parts that
    you want, as there was really no wear?

    Of course, Home Depot has to pay its employees to sell the stuff and then restock it whenever
    someone cheats the company, so every other honest customer has to pay more--and wannagofast doesn't
    pay anything.

    Do you think that wanngofast should buy bicycle tools from Andrew Muzi and then return them--with
    really no wear--for a full refund?

    Is it that Home Depot is big enough to rob?

    Is it that the theft is small enough?

    Is it that the thief probably pays more in time and travel stealing things than he gains?

    How would you feel if wannagofast simply shoplifted what he wanted and boasted about that? Would
    that still be between his mother and Home Depot or Andrew Muzi or any other victim except yourself?

    Carl Fogel

  2. On 19 Jan 2004 15:01:20 -0800, [email hidden] (Gary Young)

    Quoted message said:

    You could buy just the stepped inserts for the Park tool for about $20:

    olsetc.com/index.cgi?id=150440547026&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Headset&tc=Press%20Set%20Parts&item_id=PA-
    530/2>

    Then use a threaded rod and nuts. You'd probably have to be more careful than with the Park tool to
    make sure the insert goes in straight, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

    it does and this is prob'ly the best way to do the job fer cheap. jeffb

  3. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "wannagofast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    >I used the same approach and since I only do a headset every few years, I just return the parts
    >to Home Depot as there was really no wear.

    Quoted message said:

    "A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I wondered, do you think that's acceptable behavior? I don't. I've never been in a Home Depot, I
    meant, just in general, to purchase something, use it, and return it.

    onefred said:

    No, I don't think it's ethical, but I ain't his momma either... You can try to punish him if you
    feel it's your place, but I believe this is an issue for Home Depot and wannagofast's momma. If
    you really want to help, try to visit Home Depot more often to help make-up for people that abuse
    their liberal return policy. None of this changes the fact that Home Depot is the DIY'ers
    paradise!!! Woohoo! Radio Shack is the DIYers nightmare. Unless you need an RCA patch cable or
    'Shaq' doll, they never have [censored] on their shelves! Boohoo.

    No, I went no farther than to express my opinion in hopes that someone else would expand on the
    issue, which Sheldon did. I'm not even interested in chastising Mr Wanna. But I am interested in character-
    slip in the culture at large -in that such behavior becomes more acceptable to more people - and
    thought that merited attention.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  4. On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 05:47:44 GMT, jeffbonny <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    (Gary Young) said:

    You could buy just the stepped inserts for the Park tool for about $20:

    lsetc.com/index.cgi?id=150440547026&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Headset&tc=Press%20Set%20Parts&item_id=PA-
    530/2>

    Then use a threaded rod and nuts. You'd probably have to be more careful than with the Park tool
    to make sure the insert goes in straight, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

    it does and this is prob'ly the best way to do the job fer cheap. jeffb

    These look like a great "upgrade" to my all thread with washers and nuts.

    Anyone know the ID of these?

  5. On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:48:16 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]> may

    have said:

    ...I went no farther than to express my opinion in hopes that someone else would expand on the
    issue, which Sheldon did. I'm not even interested in chastising Mr Wanna. But I am interested in
    character-slip in the culture at large -in that such behavior becomes more acceptable to more
    people - and thought that merited attention.

    I kept my mouth shut about it because to me, the idea of buying, using and returning something is
    anathema, as I expect that it is for many others. Even when a tool can be rented or legitimately
    borrowed, I'm more likely to buy and keep it. For me, in part, this is because my long experience
    has been that if I need a tool once, I will need it again, and the second time is likely to be at a
    moment when I will not be able to obtain one.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
    it's also possible that I'm busy.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

  6. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    None of this changes the fact that Home Depot is the DIY'ers paradise!!! Woohoo!

    Local hardware stores tend to be even better for DIYers...although the dearth of good hardware
    stores leaves Home Depot the best in many areas.

    Oh, yes -- You are right! But for lumber and PVC pipes and so on HD cannot be beat.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Radio Shack is the DIYers nightmare. Unless you need an RCA patch cable


    or

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    'Shaq' doll, they never have [censored] on their shelves! Boohoo.

    The Radio Shacks around here usually have what I need, but they are terribly expensive. You can
    only buy extra-premium RCA cables at excessive prices; never an inexpensive, or even competitively
    priced premium cable. They do have reasonable prices on some small electronic componentry, if all
    you need is resistors and very common pieces.

    The Radio Shacks around here tell me that they are doing away with all their electronic componentry
    and getting out of the business. They want to compete head on with Best Buy, Circuit City, et al. I
    find them outragously expensive even for small, low-wattage resistors. And as you point out, their
    RCA cable prices are through the roof.

    Dave

  7. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Radio Shack is the DIYers nightmare. Unless you need an RCA patch cable


    or

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    'Shaq' doll, they never have [censored] on their shelves! Boohoo.

    My experience has been lexically opposite; *all* they have on their shelves is *[censored]*.

    Believe it or not, that means that there would be nothing on their shelves. That's some this-side-of-the-
    pond slang. I know it must seem a bit confusing to you.

    Dave

  8. A Muzi said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >"wannagofast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >> I used the same approach and since I only do a headset every few years, I just return the
    >> parts to Home Depot as there was really no wear.

    Quoted message said:

    But I am interested in character-slip in the culture at large -in that such behavior becomes more
    acceptable to more people - and thought that merited attention.

    Do you think it's character-slip? I think that this culture has always existed, but it's changed
    slightly with the existence of companies such as Home Depot, Lowe's, WalMart, etc. with liberal
    return policies.

    My reasoning is based on experience with banking. People think it's just fine to bilk the bank;
    probably because the bank has plenty of money.

    Think about experiences you may have had. If you know someone that had an item reposessed or
    foreclosed, who was at fault? They probably blamed the bank. They probably didn't mention the fact
    that they didn't make the payments for a long time before they lost that posession.

    In my experience, that sort of behavior has been occuring for a long time. It certainly predates any
    experience I had with liberal return policy retail stores. I don't really think people are changing.
    It's just that the shape of their behavior is adapting as business policies change.

    Dave dvt at psu dot edu

    PS I admit some bias in this, since I know more people that work in banking than people that have
    "lost" items in the manner described.

  9. Quoted message said:

    I kept my mouth shut about it because to me, the idea of buying, using and returning something is
    anathema, as I expect that it is for many others. Even when a tool can be rented or legitimately
    borrowed, I'm more likely to buy and keep it. For me, in part, this is because my long experience
    has been that if I need a tool once, I will need it again, and the second time is likely to be at
    a moment when I will not be able to obtain one.

    I posed the same question of this thread a few weeks ago and based on the excellent advice as usual,
    bought the threaded rod and different size washers with bolts on either end from Home Depot. Also
    got a couple of rubber washers to protect the Headcup surface. I did get a rod with LESS coarser
    thread spacing to push in the cups slowly. Even if the cup seem to be going in a bit crooked, it
    wasn't too bad. It was possible to realign it with hand pressure (I had done this on a car a week
    before with bearing into the knuckle; that was more touch and go since I had a make shift press
    there too with a bottle jack). Frame headtube should be faced/reamed before, I guess. Also I did one
    headset cup at a time. As for returning the items to Home Depot, for one, it would cost more in gas,
    time and wear/tear on the car to drive back. The parts cost may be about $5?

  10. "A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >"wannagofast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >"]news:[email hidden]...
    >>I used the same approach and since I only do a headset every few


    years,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>I just return the parts to Home Depot as there was really no wear.

    Quoted message said:

    "A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I wondered, do you think that's acceptable behavior? I don't. I've never been in a Home Depot, I
    meant, just in general, to purchase something, use it, and return it.

    onefred said:

    No, I don't think it's ethical, but I ain't his momma either... You can try to punish him if you
    feel it's your place, but I believe


    this is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    an issue for Home Depot and wannagofast's momma. If you really want to help, try to visit Home
    Depot more often to help make-up for people that abuse their liberal return policy. None of this
    changes the fact that Home Depot is the DIY'ers paradise!!! Woohoo! Radio Shack is the DIYers
    nightmare. Unless you need an RCA patch cable


    or

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    'Shaq' doll, they never have [censored] on their shelves! Boohoo.

    No, I went no farther than to express my opinion in hopes that someone else would expand on the
    issue, which Sheldon did. I'm not even interested in chastising Mr Wanna. But I am interested in
    character-slip in the culture at large -in that such behavior becomes more acceptable to more
    people - and thought that merited attention.

    I would not worry about it, Andrew. The far majority of people are honest, ethical beings. Home
    Depot knows that there are a few that abuse their policies but they also know that a Happy Customer
    will return to spend money. Wannagofast may one-day need a lawnmower, for example, and he will
    probably return to HD because he's happy with them. HD is trying to enter into a healthy life-long
    relationship with each of its customers and most likely will not [censored] a customer over one
    transaction only to never see this person's money again. They do have checks and balances in their
    system to catch people who excessively abuse their system.

    Dave

  11. dianne_1234 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    jeffbonny said:
    (Gary Young) said:

    You could buy just the stepped inserts for the Park tool for about $20:

    etc.com/index.cgi?id=150440547026&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Headset&tc=Press%20Set%20Parts&item_id=PA-
    530/2>

    Then use a threaded rod and nuts. You'd probably have to be more careful than with the Park tool
    to make sure the insert goes in straight, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

    it does and this is prob'ly the best way to do the job fer cheap. jeffb

    These look like a great "upgrade" to my all thread with washers and nuts.

    Anyone know the ID of these?

    Dear Dianne,

    Here's what seems to be the Park Tool page:

    parktool.com530 2.shtml

    They're apparently "step bushing cup adaptors," 530-2, for the HHP-1. Possibly they work with the
    newer HHP-2.

    Carl Fogel

  12. On 20 Jan 2004 12:41:33 -0800, [email hidden] (Carl Fogel)

    Quoted message said:

    dianne_1234 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    jeffbonny said:

    On 19 Jan 2004 15:01:20 -0800, [email hidden] (Gary Young) wrote:

    >You could buy just the stepped inserts for the Park tool for about $20:
    >
    >tc.com/index.cgi?id=150440547026&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Headset&tc=Press%20Set%20Parts&item_id=PA-
    >530/2>
    >
    >Then use a threaded rod and nuts. You'd probably have to be more careful than with the Park
    >tool to make sure the insert goes in straight, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

    it does and this is prob'ly the best way to do the job fer cheap. jeffb

    These look like a great "upgrade" to my all thread with washers and nuts.

    Anyone know the ID of these?

    Dear Dianne,

    Here's what seems to be the Park Tool page:

    parktool.com530 2.shtml

    They're apparently "step bushing cup adaptors," 530-2, for the HHP-1. Possibly they work with the
    newer HHP-2.

    Carl Fogel

    Thanks, Carl. I was wondering what diameter all-thread to buy to go with them.

  13. onefred said:

    ... And as you point out, their RCA cable prices are through the roof.

    For the price of some high-end audio cables (one set) you could get a titanium alloy or carbon fiber
    composite frame bicycle with you choice of Dura-Ace or Record.

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

  14. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>"wannagofast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>> I used the same approach and since I only do a headset every few years, I just return the
    >>> parts to Home Depot as there was really no wear.

    Quoted message said:
    A Muzi said:

    But I am interested in character-slip in the culture at large -in that such behavior becomes more
    acceptable to more people - and thought that merited attention.

    dvt said:

    Do you think it's character-slip? I think that this culture has always existed, but it's changed
    slightly with the existence of companies such as Home Depot, Lowe's, WalMart, etc. with liberal
    return policies.

    My reasoning is based on experience with banking. People think it's just fine to bilk the bank;
    probably because the bank has plenty of money.

    Think about experiences you may have had. If you know someone that had an item reposessed or
    foreclosed, who was at fault? They probably blamed the bank. They probably didn't mention the fact
    that they didn't make the payments for a long time before they lost that posession.


    -snip-

    Yes I hear people speak proudly of cheating the local utility company, who are indeed unlovable. But
    the shareholders are likely your neighbor's grandmother, living on her stock coupons. The salaried
    jerks get paid either way. Ditto most "big business". You don't steal from the help, you steal from
    the owners. It's wrong in any case and heinous when the "justification" is backwards.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  15. Quoted message said:

    I would not worry about it, Andrew. The far majority of people are


    honest,

    Quoted message said:

    ethical beings. Home Depot knows that there are a few that abuse their policies but they also know
    that a Happy Customer will return to spend money. Wannagofast may one-day need a lawnmower, for
    example, and he will probably return to HD because he's happy with them. HD is trying to enter
    into a healthy life-long relationship with each of its customers and most likely will not [censored]
    a customer over one transaction only to never see this person's money again. They do have checks
    and balances in their


    system

    Quoted message said:

    to catch people who excessively abuse their system.

    There's more to it than that. Most LBSs try to give their customers the best-possible service but,
    unlike Home Depot, don't have the clout with their suppliers to return product that's not obviously
    defective. Thus handling returns has a direct effect on the bottom line.

    Now, when people like Wannagofast buy product, use it and return it (and use, I've seen it happen at
    our shop, nearly always with tools), it does two things. First, it costs us money, and second (and
    more importantly) it causes us to have to question whether a customer is being straight with us or
    not. That's a really terrible thing... and you know that saying how one customer with a bad
    experience will tell at least ten other people to stay away from your shop? It works the other way
    around too. One customer trying to rip off a shop may create changes in policies and attitudes that
    affect hundreds of other customers.

    In the real world, being a business owner, I often have to "put out fires." Often that's taking care
    of a situation where something didn't quite go right and a customer is upset. But just as often it
    involves having to calm staff down because somebody came in and did something to try and take
    advantage of us (returning something stolen or bought elsewhere, or claiming an employee said
    something that wasn't policy and clearly wasn't the case because *I* happened to have overheard it,
    etc). And so you have to explain (to staff) why we're here, that 99.999999999999% of our customers
    are the most wonderful people in the world, and that this isn't something to lose sleep over or
    change policies.

    Home Depot has probably done various cost/benefit analysis and determined that it's acceptable to
    not only tolerate customer abuse of their system, and that they'd rather have Wannagofast rip them
    off on his home-made "borrowed" tools... so that he'll buy a lawnmower down the road. I suppose I
    shouldn't say this, but *I* wouldn't want that person as a customer. I'll bend over backward to give
    somebody the benefit of the doubt, but Wannagofast & his or her friends are not the people I'm in
    business to help.

    Aw heck, I'm not done yet. Home Depots return policies are a reflection of something very bad in
    this world- an attitude that there's little inherent value in anything, and nothing is to be
    repaired, just thrown away. In the old days, you didn't expect something that had broken to be
    replaced, or thrown out- you repaired it. But that's way too much hassle unless you have people
    intelligent enough to understand the product (and maybe to explain its use so somebody doesn't break
    the "defective" product in the first place, via mis-use). The world is not a better place because
    Home Depot (and others) would rather not ask questions when things go wrong. It's a worse place.
    When a customer comes into the shop wanting to return something, I always ask if there's something
    wrong with the product, what happened, etc. And often it turns out they're simply not using it
    correctly, *or* they were sold the wrong thing etc. Both of those situations are hurt, not helped,
    by a no-questions-asked return policy. Plus, there are the exceptionally-rare situations like
    Wannagofast that it encourages.

    Sorry for the endless ramble & retail drivel. I should *not* hit the "send" icon on this one!!! But
    I will. But not before saying that I have exceptionally few customers like Wannagofast, and look
    forward to taking care of my customers every single day. They're great people, all
    99.999999999999% of them. Just keep me away from Wannagofast.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.com

    "onefred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>"wannagofast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>"]news:[email hidden]...
    >>>I used the same approach and since I only do a headset every few


    years,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>I just return the parts to Home Depot as there was really no wear.

    Quoted message said:

    "A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
    >I wondered, do you think that's acceptable behavior? I don't. I've never been in a Home Depot,
    >I meant, just in general, to purchase something, use it, and return it.

    onefred said:

    No, I don't think it's ethical, but I ain't his momma either... You can try to punish him if
    you feel it's your place, but I believe


    this is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    an issue for Home Depot and wannagofast's momma. If you really want


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    help, try to visit Home Depot more often to help make-up for people


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    abuse their liberal return policy. None of this changes the fact that Home Depot is the
    DIY'ers paradise!!! Woohoo! Radio Shack is the DIYers nightmare. Unless you need an RCA patch


    cable

    Quoted message said:

    or

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    'Shaq' doll, they never have [censored] on their shelves! Boohoo.

    No, I went no farther than to express my opinion in hopes that someone else would expand on the
    issue, which Sheldon did. I'm not even interested in chastising Mr Wanna. But I am interested in
    character-slip in the culture at large -in that such behavior becomes more acceptable to more
    people - and thought that merited attention.

    I would not worry about it, Andrew. The far majority of people are


    honest,

    Quoted message said:

    ethical beings. Home Depot knows that there are a few that abuse their policies but they also know
    that a Happy Customer will return to spend money. Wannagofast may one-day need a lawnmower, for
    example, and he will probably return to HD because he's happy with them. HD is trying to enter
    into a healthy life-long relationship with each of its customers and most likely will not [censored]
    a customer over one transaction only to never see this person's money again. They do have checks
    and balances in their


    system

    Quoted message said:

    to catch people who excessively abuse their system.

    Dave

  16. But the shareholders are likely your

    Quoted message said:

    neighbor's grandmother, living on her stock coupons. The salaried jerks get paid either way. Ditto
    most "big business". You don't steal from the help, you steal from the owners.

    What about the poor [censored] in China, whom we all exist off of?

  17. Here is a link to a do-it-yourself headset tool. Good luck.

    mindspring.comheadset.html

  18. dianne_1234 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    (Carl Fogel) said:

    dianne_1234 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 05:47:44 GMT, jeffbonny <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >On 19 Jan 2004 15:01:20 -0800, [email hidden] (Gary Young) wrote:
    >
    >>You could buy just the stepped inserts for the Park tool for about $20:
    >>
    >>.com/index.cgi?id=150440547026&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Headset&tc=Press%20Set%20Parts&item_id=PA-
    >>530/2>
    >>
    >>Then use a threaded rod and nuts. You'd probably have to be more careful than with the Park
    >>tool to make sure the insert goes in straight, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
    >
    >it does and this is prob'ly the best way to do the job fer cheap. jeffb

    These look like a great "upgrade" to my all thread with washers and nuts.

    Anyone know the ID of these?

    Dear Dianne,

    Here's what seems to be the Park Tool page:

    parktool.com530 2.shtml

    They're apparently "step bushing cup adaptors," 530-2, for the HHP-1. Possibly they work with the
    newer HHP-2.

    Carl Fogel

    Thanks, Carl. I was wondering what diameter all-thread to buy to go with them.

    Diane, The bore is 22 mm, give or take a fraction of a mm.

  19. bicyclette said:

    But the shareholders are likely your

    Quoted message said:

    neighbor's grandmother, living on her stock coupons. The salaried jerks get paid either way.
    Ditto most "big business". You don't steal from the help, you steal from the owners.

    What about the poor [censored] in China, whom we all exist off of?

    If you give it a fancy name like "Manifest Destiny" then it isn't stealing anymore. Is it?

    jeffb

  20. Quoted message said:

    What about the poor [censored] in China, whom we all exist off of?

    Over time, that may sort itself out. The new global economy is creating a lot of displacement, and
    once we finish exporting all the production jobs overseas, we can get really serious about
    "outsourcing" middle management and other interactive jobs traditionally thought immune. Eventually,
    in a drive to increase profits and make everything cheaper, we end up with a lot of product that
    nobody can afford to buy (because they're all out of work).

    How long before the Chinese recognize that there's no American monopoly on smart business CEOs? Or
    that they didn't exist in the first place? Someday, the pyramid may invert itself, entirely from
    economic forces.

    And to think it was "the bomb" we were worried about!

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.com

    "bicyclette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    But the shareholders are likely your

    Quoted message said:

    neighbor's grandmother, living on her stock coupons. The salaried jerks get paid either way.
    Ditto most "big business". You don't steal from the help, you steal from the owners.

    What about the poor [censored] in China, whom we all exist off of?

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