Hating Armstrong

"Ed-D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5g0Ya.50969$cF.18343@rwcrnsc53...

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"Ed-D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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How many French North Africans are there in the various houses of

parliament?

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How about in the courts? How about the supreme court?

although charges of racism in france should not be dismissed, mass immigration of n.africans
started ~40 years ago. how many vietnamese migrants to the us are in the positions you are
inquiring about? i.e.

you

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should not be comparing apples and oranges.

next, how do you figure the average life expectancy of n.african youth

in

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france compares to that of african american males?

youthoutlook.orgdrylongso.no.o.htmlOpen ↗

are you done now?

done with what? done trying to argue with a manipulative [censored] like

yourself?

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You should be so lucky. As disgusted as I am with your hypocrisy, lies,

and

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all-around [censored], I'm not going to sit by idly while this nonsense goes unexposed.

nice going. something rattled your cage?

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First of all the statistics on that page are neither here nor there (and

you

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accuse me of comparing apples to oranges? Hypocrite?). You're going to

have

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to do a little better than pointing me to the web site of some film

(which, if

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I'm not mistaken, was made in Hollywood of all places). Assuming the statistics on that web site
are even accurate (highly unlikely, but I digress), they say nothing about treatment of minorities
in France or the U.S., nothing about civil and economic rights, and, most glaringly,

NOTHING

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about life expectancy of "North African youth". And even if it did, how

is

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that relevant? How are you going to use that as a statistic to support

your

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claim of differing degrees of racism in the U.S. and France? Has it

occurred

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to you that maybe, just maybe, the point of that movie is to make a

statement

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about black males vis-a-vis black females and not blacks vis-a-vis whites

or,

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even more preposterously, blacks in the U.S. compared to Africans in

France?

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If you ask me, that blatant lack of understanding belies an ignorant, patronizing attitude that is
essentially no better (and far more dishonest

and

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manipulative) than overt racism.

if anyhting you certainly failed reading comprehension. the points of my post were the following:

1) by asking how many north africans attained the 'most' prestigious positions in france, you
compare the status of a population that started immigrating to france 40 years ago to african
americans who have been in the us for over ~150-200 years. they are simply not comparable. this
is why i suggested comparing vietnamese americans to north african french. is there something you
don't understand about this? or are you going to ignore this aspect of my post, once more?

2) i provided you with the first link of a google search that provided many more hits. i am soooo
sorry i did not waste more time finding you a reputable study .... considering the depth of your
argumentation thus far. it is usually no mistery for anyone who pays attention (and with a shred
of intellectual honesty) that due to infant mortality, lack of family structure, school drop out
rates, unemployment, violence, drugs, and discrimination in general, the life expectancy of
inner city black males is comparable to that found in many non-industrialized nations (and
declining btw).

inmotionmagazine.compncc2.htmlOpen ↗

i genuinely thought that it'd be material for you to think about before you engaged in accusing
another nationality of racism (or of being more racist than your own). if you fail to see the
connection between a) a racial group dying ~10 years earlier than the national average for well
documented reasons and b) discrimination, i suspect there is not much left to talk about.

and you'll have to document your assertions on your own. don't expect me to do it.

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Now kindly crawl back into your cave and please, if you do want to waste

your

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time replying to this, do so in your own words...don't point me to some

stupid

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web site.

politicalhumor.about.comblpic lottxmas.htmOpen ↗

In article a3kYa.56059$cF.20296@rwcrnsc53 said:

1) by asking how many north africans attained the 'most' prestigious positions in france, you
compare the status of a population that started immigrating to france 40 years ago to african
americans who have been in the us for over ~150-200 years. they are simply not comparable. this
is why i suggested comparing vietnamese americans to north african french. is there something
you don't understand about this? or are you going to ignore this aspect of my post, once more?

Note that if we go back to the time of the colonies, the president of the French National Assembly
as some point in the late 40's early 50's was from the Maghreb (and by this I do not mean a white
guy who happened to be born in Africa). Around the same time, Leopold Sédar Senghor (who later
became president of Senegal) was a minister in the French Govt. The same Senghor was admitted in the
late 80's in the Académie Française.

I don't think that any North African is on the "short list" for the next open spot at the Académie
Française. If we expand a bit the criterion to include arab authors who write in french, I wouldn't
be suprised if someone like Amin Maalouf managed to get in, but not before another 10 years, the
Académie being after all mostly a club for old geezers.

jyh.

--
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jean-yves herve' /\ Department of Computer Science \/ e-mail --> [email hidden] and Statistics /\
University of Rhode Island \/ Tel. --> (401) 874-4400 Kingston, RI 02881-0816 /\ Fax. --> (401)
874-4617 USA \/
=====================================================================

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a3kYa.56059$cF.20296@rwcrnsc53...

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"Ed-D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5g0Ya.50969$cF.18343@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted message said:

"Ed-D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

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> How many French North Africans are there in the various houses of
parliament?
> How about in the courts? How about the supreme court?

although charges of racism in france should not be dismissed, mass immigration of n.africans
started ~40 years ago. how many vietnamese migrants to the us are in the positions you are
inquiring about? i.e.

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should not be comparing apples and oranges.

next, how do you figure the average life expectancy of n.african youth

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

france compares to that of african american males?

youthoutlook.orgdrylongso.no.o.htmlOpen ↗

are you done now?

done with what? done trying to argue with a manipulative [censored] like

yourself?

Quoted message said:

You should be so lucky. As disgusted as I am with your hypocrisy, lies,

and

Quoted message said:

all-around [censored], I'm not going to sit by idly while this nonsense goes unexposed.

nice going. something rattled your cage?

Quoted message said:

First of all the statistics on that page are neither here nor there (and

you

Quoted message said:

accuse me of comparing apples to oranges? Hypocrite?). You're going to

have

Quoted message said:

to do a little better than pointing me to the web site of some film

(which, if

Quoted message said:

I'm not mistaken, was made in Hollywood of all places). Assuming the statistics on that web site
are even accurate (highly unlikely, but I digress), they say nothing about treatment of
minorities in France or the U.S., nothing about civil and economic rights, and, most glaringly,

NOTHING

Quoted message said:

about life expectancy of "North African youth". And even if it did, how

is

Quoted message said:

that relevant? How are you going to use that as a statistic to support

your

Quoted message said:

claim of differing degrees of racism in the U.S. and France? Has it

occurred

Quoted message said:

to you that maybe, just maybe, the point of that movie is to make a

statement

Quoted message said:

about black males vis-a-vis black females and not blacks vis-a-vis whites

or,

Quoted message said:

even more preposterously, blacks in the U.S. compared to Africans in

France?

Quoted message said:

If you ask me, that blatant lack of understanding belies an ignorant, patronizing attitude that
is essentially no better (and far more dishonest

and

Quoted message said:

manipulative) than overt racism.

if anyhting you certainly failed reading comprehension. the points of my post were the following:

1) by asking how many north africans attained the 'most' prestigious positions in france, you
compare the status of a population that started immigrating to france 40 years ago to african
americans who have been in the us for over ~150-200 years. they are simply not comparable. this
is why i suggested comparing vietnamese americans to north african french. is there something
you don't understand about this? or are you going to ignore this aspect of my post, once more?

It's a ridiculous point for so many reasons that it isn't really worth my (or anybody else's)
attention. There is no way you can compare French North Africans to Vietnamese immigrants to the
United States...on any level...and this for a number of different reasons. I'm just going to mention
a few to shut you up:

1. While it may be true that African immigration to France only dates back 40 years, French
involvement in Africa goes back over 100 years, or much further than American involvement
in Vietnam.
2. French involvement in Africa was far more significant than American involvement in Vietnam. There
is virtually no part of French African culture, politics, society, etc. etc. that has not been
affected by French influence. (Interestingly enough, you could say the same thing about Vietnam)
3. Vietnamese immigrants make up a far smaller percentage of the U.S. population than Africans do of
French population.
4. I don't have the statistics handy, but I'm willing to bet that the total number (not percentage)
of Vietnamese immigrants in the United States is significantly smaller than the total number
African immigrants in France.
5. Most African immigrants to France are native French speakers. Virtually all Vietnamese immigrants
to the U.S. need to learn English from scratch. etc. etc.

Quoted message said:

2) i provided you with the first link of a google search that provided many more hits. i am soooo
sorry i did not waste more time finding you a reputable study .... considering the depth of
your argumentation thus far. it is usually no mistery for anyone who pays attention (and with a
shred of intellectual honesty) that due to infant mortality, lack of family structure, school
drop out rates, unemployment, violence, drugs, and discrimination in general, the life
expectancy of inner city black males is comparable to that found in many non-industrialized
nations (and declining btw).

inmotionmagazine.compncc2.htmlOpen ↗

So what? Until you find comparable statistics for French minorities it's still all dribble.

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i genuinely thought that it'd be material for you to think about before you engaged in accusing
another nationality of racism (or of being more racist than your own).

how can I? You haven't given me a point of comparison from another country? Besides, what makes you
think I'm not perfectly aware of these problems in the first place (as is anybody else who reads the
newspaper).

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if you fail to see the connection between a) a racial group dying ~10 years earlier than the
national average for well documented reasons and b) discrimination, i suspect there is not much
left to talk about.

There may be a connection, but there are certainly other factors at work that are more
significant. Chalking it all up to discrimination may work in your sociology 101 class but it
won't fly anywhere else.

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and you'll have to document your assertions on your own. don't expect me to do it.

Quoted message said:

Now kindly crawl back into your cave and please, if you do want to waste

your

Quoted message said:

time replying to this, do so in your own words...don't point me to some

stupid

Quoted message said:

web site.

politicalhumor.about.comblpic lottxmas.htmOpen ↗

do you mean that during all this time you were engaging in an exercise that was futile? well, it
only took a number of days but i am glad we got it sorted out.

"jean-yves hervé" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jyh-

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to include arab authors who write in french, I wouldn't be suprised if someone like Amin Maalouf
managed to get in, but not before another 10 years, the Académie being after all mostly a club for
old geezers.

i have not read many of his books but i did like his 'samarkand' very much

not that it means too much but i also see that a chinese-french (francois cheng) was elected at
l'academie last year.

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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do you mean that during all this time you were engaging in an exercise that was futile? well, it
only took a number of days but i am glad we got it sorted out.

I honestly can't figure out what you're trying to say here, let alone how to interpret it.
Whatever. Different people have different ways of capitulating I guess. I'll take the fact that you
have not included any part of my previous post in your reply (let alone made even the feeblest
attempt with arguing against any of it) as a sign that that is indeed what's going on. Very well
then. I'm done here.

"Ed-D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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do you mean that during all this time you were engaging in an exercise

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was futile? well, it only took a number of days but i am glad we got it sorted out.

I honestly can't figure out what you're trying to say here, let alone how

to

Quoted message said:

interpret it. Whatever. Different people have different ways of

capitulating

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I guess. I'll take the fact that you have not included any part of my previous post in your reply
(let alone made even the feeblest attempt with arguing against any of it) as a sign that that is
indeed what's going on. Very well then. I'm done here.

whatever makes you feel good, i guess. just be aware that your discourse eventually will lead to
more encounters of this kind. if by chance, you thought this was not very pleasant, you should
definitely consider toning down the rhetoric.

"Ed-D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

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"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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France is not racists against blacks per se (unless they come from the islands.) I know an
African American woman who has lived in Paris long enough that she speaks very good French.
Sometimes she puts on more of an American accent so she'll get treated better in stores if they
don't think she's from the DOM-TOM.

Racism against North African (arabs) is more open in France than racisism against African
Americans is in the US, Though at the same time, I'd say that French-North Africans are better
integrated than African Americans are in the US.

Oh yeah? How many French North Africans are there in the Academie Francaise?

How many African-Americans are there in the US Senate?