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Hating Armstrong

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Road Cycling
Published
4 August 2003
Last activity
8 August 2003
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Ilan Vardi
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  1. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Ilan Vardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Ingemar Svensson) wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    You got it. That's at least the reason I don't like Armstrong, he's been too superior. You
    loose interest in a competition if you know how it will end up. That's the way it has been in
    the Tour the three last years before this tour. If all the races had been as close as this
    year and Armstrong still would have won the five in a row, the general opinion of him would
    have been a lot friendlier. I don't think the hostilities against Armstrong have anything to
    do with the person, it's just the disappointment of not getting the excitement of a close
    competition.

    Good point, I suppose that's why everyone hated Indurain.

    I didn't hate Indurain, but I thought the Tours that he won were very boring. I was glad when he
    was done.

    Exactly -- hate is a ridiculous word unless someone cheats and lies.

    The Indurain years were boring for sure -- but for someone to "hate" a Tour champ and yet actually
    be a cycling fan? WTF?

    -Ken

  2. "Slider2699" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Ilan Vardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think that irrational hatred of Lance Armstrong is necessarily anti-American sentiment,
    though that does come into it to some extent. I believe that Serena Williams described it best
    after her loss at the French Open final this year.

    People don't like the Williams sisters because they are classless boors. Period.

    I agree that they are classless boors, and I don't like them either, but I still think race is the
    major issue. There are, after all, white classless boors in women's tennis too (Jennifer Capriati
    comes to mind) who would never get the treatment Serena got.

  3. "Slider2699" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Ilan Vardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think that irrational hatred of Lance Armstrong is necessarily anti-American sentiment,
    though that does come into it to some extent. I believe that Serena Williams described it best
    after her loss at the French Open final this year.

    People don't like the Williams sisters because they are classless boors. Period.

    I thought Serena handled the negative situation at the French Open final very well.

    sportsillustrated.cnn.comser ena_distraught_reut/

    It was a win which was greeted with euphoria by supporters who had gone overboard at times, cheering
    the champion's double faults and leaving the American distraught.

    "It was a tough crowd out there ... the story of my life," Serena said before breaking
    down in tears.

    Wiping her eyes, she sobbed: "I am not used to crying, I am sorry.

    "I can get up here and say 'You know, I can do it ... it is easy'. But deep down it kind of hurts.

    "It is just difficult when people are booing and screaming in between points.

    "It's just difficult. It was a fight, that's all. I am going to have to learn how to win.

    "Got to keep smiling ... I think if you keep smiling, things work out."

    <snip

  4. "trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    France is not racists against blacks per se (unless they come from the islands.) I know an African
    American woman who has lived in Paris long enough that she speaks very good French. Sometimes she
    puts on more of an American accent so she'll get treated better in stores if they don't think
    she's from the DOM-TOM.

    Racism against North African (arabs) is more open in France than racisism against African
    Americans is in the US, Though at the same time, I'd say that French-North Africans are better
    integrated than African Americans are in the US.

    Oh yeah? How many French North Africans are there in the Academie Francaise?

    Quoted message said:


    "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dashi Toshii" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message
    > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > > "Ilan Vardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > > "]news:[email hidden]... that and the fact that the French
    > > are racist [censored].
    > >
    >
    > Ed-D, Ed-D ! That comment is silly (saying it mildly). Our most


    beloved

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > tennis star is Yannick Noah. Don't forget that just even with a


    Breton

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > name, his tan is darker than most.
    >
    > You just didn't have anything to say, and managed to do it


    economically.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > For that, good job !

    If the French are racist, what are Americans?

    definitely racist, but on a different level.

    Quoted message said:

    Didn't many of the great Black entertainers of the 1930's, 1940's and


    1950's

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    go to France so that they could work in an atmosphere free from hate and bigotry?

    "FREE from hate and bigotry"? Are you not exaggerating a wee bit?

    Quoted message said:


    Josephine Baker comes to mind.

    Sports great:

    Jack Johnson comes to mind.

    Ask any Black WWII veteran what their experience was in France.

    Most never wanted to return to the U.S. and many that made it through


    WWII

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    alive, didn't.

    France has always been seen as a land of opportunity for people of


    colour!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Dashii


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  5. Quoted message said:

    and she ended up crying at the post game press conference. Anyway, she said that she definitely did
    not feel that the situation had any relation to her American nationality, but rather to the fact
    that the public hates a winner who dominates the competition.

    I'm glad to see she didn't chalk it up to her race. It takes maturity for a star black athlete to
    leave race tactics behind. She hit the nail mostly. The public gets bored by and turns on
    overwhelmingly dominant players with rare exception. The only addition is, I think, some anti-U.S.
    feelings after the Iraq war.

    Doug

  6. Quoted message said:

    There are two kinds of people in this world I can't stand. People that are intolerant of other
    people's cultures and the Dutch.

    rotflmao!

  7. "Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    ... The way Indurain dominated was extremely boring. No showmanship. Only a few times did he
    really extend himself in the mountains. There was a stage in 2994 that comes to mind where he was
    battling with Luc Leblanc and lost for the stage. He was really flying though.

    2994! I guess they'll really be flying then on their neutron bikes. None of this archaic
    gravity B.S.

    Rick H

  8. "Slider2699" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:


    People don't like the Williams sisters because they are classless boors. Period.

    IMHO, both sisters, win or lose, have always been quite gracious during interviews before/after a
    tennis match, giving credit to their competition with nary a negative word. Davenport complained
    once that they're aloof, but I think with reason, because they have to grow tough skins to compete
    in a mostly white tennis community and crowd.

    Serena handled the undeserved hostility at the French with grace.

    Back to biking, Rick H

  9. [email hidden] (Ingemar Svensson) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:


    You got it. That's at least the reason I don't like Armstrong, he's been too superior. You loose
    interest in a competition if you know how it will end up. That's the way it has been in the Tour
    the three last years before this tour. If all the races had been as close as this year and
    Armstrong still would have won the five in a row, the general opinion of him would have been a lot
    friendlier. I don't think the hostilities against Armstrong have anything to do with the person,
    it's just the disappointment of not getting the excitement of a close competition.

    Yeah, I lost interest in Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan long ago. They were too superior. You
    lose interest in a competition if you know how it will end up. Oh wait, Woods hasn't won every
    major, and Jordan didn't win every championship. But I guess Lance is a lock to win every time he
    gets on a bike.

    Rick H

  10. "Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
    Our most beloved

    Quoted message said:

    tennis star is Yannick Noah. Don't forget that just even with a Breton name, his tan is darker
    than most.


    And isn't Virenque a Pied Noir from Morocco? All the best Dan G

  11. "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Slider2699" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Ilan Vardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think that irrational hatred of Lance Armstrong is necessarily anti-American
    sentiment, though that does come into it to some extent. I believe that Serena Williams
    described it best after her loss at the French Open final this year.

    People don't like the Williams sisters because they are classless boors. Period.

    I agree that they are classless boors, and I don't like them either, but I still think race is the
    major issue. There are, after all, white classless boors in women's tennis too (Jennifer Capriati
    comes to mind) who would


    never

    Quoted message said:

    get the treatment Serena got.


    But when Capriati loses there is no doubt she lost based on her ability. When Venus or Serena lose
    to each other, the doubt is there. They don't seem to play each other as hard as they play others,
    and their father does cast a pall over both of them. Plus, their obnoxiousness is far worse than
    Capriati's, IMHO.

  12. rick h said:

    Yeah, I lost interest in Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan long ago. They were too superior. You
    lose interest in a competition if you know how it will end up. Oh wait, Woods hasn't won every
    major, and Jordan didn't win every championship. But I guess Lance is a lock to win every time he
    gets on a bike.


    If he doesn't it's because he means to lose.

  13. "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    France is not racists against blacks per se (unless they come from the islands.) I know an
    African American woman who has lived in Paris long enough that she speaks very good French.
    Sometimes she puts on more of


    an

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    American accent so she'll get treated better in stores if they don't


    think

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    she's from the DOM-TOM.

    Racism against North African (arabs) is more open in France than


    racisism

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    against African Americans is in the US, Though at the same time, I'd say that French-North
    Africans are better integrated than African Americans


    are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in the US.

    Oh yeah? How many French North Africans are there in the Academie


    Francaise?

    I have no idea. How many African Americans are on the board of directors of the Smithsonian
    Institute? Does it matter?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dashi Toshii" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > "Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > >
    > > "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message
    > > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > > > "Ilan Vardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > > > "]news:[email hidden]... that and the fact that the
    > > > French are racist [censored].
    > > >
    > >
    > > Ed-D, Ed-D ! That comment is silly (saying it mildly). Our most


    beloved

    Quoted message said:

    > > tennis star is Yannick Noah. Don't forget that just even with a


    Breton

    Quoted message said:

    > > name, his tan is darker than most.
    > >
    > > You just didn't have anything to say, and managed to do it


    economically.

    Quoted message said:

    > > For that, good job !
    >
    > If the French are racist, what are Americans?
    >

    definitely racist, but on a different level.

    > Didn't many of the great Black entertainers of the 1930's, 1940's


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    1950's

    Quoted message said:

    > go to France so that they could work in an atmosphere free from hate


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > bigotry?

    "FREE from hate and bigotry"? Are you not exaggerating a wee bit?

    >
    > Josephine Baker comes to mind.
    >
    > Sports great:
    >
    > Jack Johnson comes to mind.
    >
    > Ask any Black WWII veteran what their experience was in France.
    >
    > Most never wanted to return to the U.S. and many that made it


    through

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    WWII

    Quoted message said:

    > alive, didn't.
    >
    > France has always been seen as a land of opportunity for people of


    colour!

    Quoted message said:

    >
    > Dashii
    >
    >

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  14. [email hidden] (rick h) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Ingemar Svensson) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:


    You got it. That's at least the reason I don't like Armstrong, he's been too superior. You loose
    interest in a competition if you know how it will end up. That's the way it has been in the Tour
    the three last years before this tour. If all the races had been as close as this year and
    Armstrong still would have won the five in a row, the general opinion of him would have been a
    lot friendlier. I don't think the hostilities against Armstrong have anything to do with the
    person, it's just the disappointment of not getting the excitement of a close competition.

    Yeah, I lost interest in Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan long ago. They were too superior. You lose
    interest in a competition if you know how it will end up. Oh wait, Woods hasn't won every major,
    and Jordan didn't win every championship.

    You're right, Tiger and Jordan didn't win it all, all the time. But golf and basketball are
    different sports than cycling. In cycling, especially during a stage race like the tour, you know
    that the strongest rider will probably win. The problem with Lance and the tour is that you know
    that he is the strongest. In other cycling races you most often don't know who is the strongest
    before the competition is over. Even when you know that Tiger or Jordan is the best
    golfer/basketball player that doesn't mean they will win every time. That's the difference.

    Quoted message said:

    But I guess Lance is a lock to win every time he gets on a bike. Rick H


    No, only during the Tour. But that's the only venue where I have a problem with Armstrong. It's only
    there that he most often destroys the excitement of the race. In other races you know that Armstrong
    is probably not at his highest peak form since he's always in a build up before the tour.

  15. "trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    France is not racists against blacks per se (unless they come from the islands.) I know an
    African American woman who has lived in Paris long enough that she speaks very good French.
    Sometimes she puts on more of


    an

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    American accent so she'll get treated better in stores if they don't


    think

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    she's from the DOM-TOM.

    Racism against North African (arabs) is more open in France than


    racisism

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    against African Americans is in the US, Though at the same time, I'd say that French-North
    Africans are better integrated than African Americans


    are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in the US.

    Oh yeah? How many French North Africans are there in the Academie


    Francaise?

    I have no idea. How many African Americans are on the board of directors of the Smithsonian
    Institute? Does it matter?

    No, that doesn't. But the Academie Francaise is a much bigger deal to France than the Smithsonian
    Institute is to the U.S..

    How many French North Africans are there in the various houses of parliament? How about in the
    courts? How about the supreme court?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    >
    >
    > "Dashi Toshii" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
    > >
    > > "Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > > >
    > > > "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message
    > > > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > > > > "Ilan Vardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > > > > "]news:[email hidden]... that and the fact that the
    > > > > French are racist [censored].
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > Ed-D, Ed-D ! That comment is silly (saying it mildly). Our most
    beloved
    > > > tennis star is Yannick Noah. Don't forget that just even with a
    Breton
    > > > name, his tan is darker than most.
    > > >
    > > > You just didn't have anything to say, and managed to do it
    economically.
    > > > For that, good job !
    > >
    > > If the French are racist, what are Americans?
    > >
    >
    > definitely racist, but on a different level.
    >
    > > Didn't many of the great Black entertainers of the 1930's, 1940's


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    1950's
    > > go to France so that they could work in an atmosphere free from hate


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > bigotry?
    >
    > "FREE from hate and bigotry"? Are you not exaggerating a wee bit?
    >
    > >
    > > Josephine Baker comes to mind.
    > >
    > > Sports great:
    > >
    > > Jack Johnson comes to mind.
    > >
    > > Ask any Black WWII veteran what their experience was in France.
    > >
    > > Most never wanted to return to the U.S. and many that made it


    through

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    WWII
    > > alive, didn't.
    > >
    > > France has always been seen as a land of opportunity for people of
    colour!
    > >
    > > Dashii
    > >
    > >
    >

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  16. "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    > France is not racists against blacks per se (unless they come from


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > islands.) I know an African American woman who has lived in Paris


    long

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > enough that she speaks very good French. Sometimes she puts on more


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    an

    Quoted message said:

    > American accent so she'll get treated better in stores if they don't


    think

    Quoted message said:

    > she's from the DOM-TOM.
    >
    > Racism against North African (arabs) is more open in France than


    racisism

    Quoted message said:

    > against African Americans is in the US, Though at the same time, I'd


    say

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > that French-North Africans are better integrated than African


    Americans

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    are

    Quoted message said:

    > in the US.
    >

    Oh yeah? How many French North Africans are there in the Academie


    Francaise?

    I have no idea. How many African Americans are on the board of directors


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the Smithsonian Institute? Does it matter?

    No, that doesn't. But the Academie Francaise is a much bigger deal to


    France

    Quoted message said:

    than the Smithsonian Institute is to the U.S..

    How many French North Africans are there in the various houses of


    parliament?

    Quoted message said:

    How about in the courts? How about the supreme court?

    although charges of racism in france should not be dismissed, mass immigration of n.africans started
    ~40 years ago. how many vietnamese migrants to the us are in the positions you are inquiring about?
    i.e. you should not be comparing apples and oranges.

    next, how do you figure the average life expectancy of n.african youth in france compares to that of
    african american males?

    youthoutlook.orgdrylongso.no.o.html

    are you done now?

  17. "Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5g0Ya.50969$cF.18343@rwcrnsc53...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I have no idea. How many African Americans are on the board of


    directors

    Quoted message said:

    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the Smithsonian Institute? Does it matter?

    No, that doesn't. But the Academie Francaise is a much bigger deal to


    France

    Quoted message said:

    than the Smithsonian Institute is to the U.S..

    How many French North Africans are there in the various houses of


    parliament?

    Quoted message said:

    How about in the courts? How about the supreme court?

    although charges of racism in france should not be dismissed, mass immigration of n.africans
    started ~40 years ago. how many vietnamese migrants to the us are in the positions you are
    inquiring about? i.e. you should not be comparing apples and oranges.

    next, how do you figure the average life expectancy of n.african youth in france compares to that
    of african american males?

    youthoutlook.orgdrylongso.no.o.html

    are you done now?

    Anecdotally, I hear its worse for Asians in France than it is here.

    K. Gringioni Asian

  18. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Anecdotally, I hear its worse for Asians in France than it is here.

    K. Gringioni Asian

    What have you heard?

  19. "Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5g0Ya.50969$cF.18343@rwcrnsc53...

    Quoted message said:


    "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > "trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > > France is not racists against blacks per se (unless they come from


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > islands.) I know an African American woman who has lived in Paris


    long

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > enough that she speaks very good French. Sometimes she puts on more


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    an
    > > American accent so she'll get treated better in stores if they don't
    think
    > > she's from the DOM-TOM.
    > >
    > > Racism against North African (arabs) is more open in France than
    racisism
    > > against African Americans is in the US, Though at the same time, I'd


    say

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > that French-North Africans are better integrated than African


    Americans

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    are
    > > in the US.
    > >
    >
    > Oh yeah? How many French North Africans are there in the Academie
    Francaise?

    I have no idea. How many African Americans are on the board of directors


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the Smithsonian Institute? Does it matter?

    No, that doesn't. But the Academie Francaise is a much bigger deal to


    France

    Quoted message said:

    than the Smithsonian Institute is to the U.S..

    How many French North Africans are there in the various houses of


    parliament?

    Quoted message said:

    How about in the courts? How about the supreme court?

    although charges of racism in france should not be dismissed, mass immigration of n.africans
    started ~40 years ago. how many vietnamese migrants to the us are in the positions you are
    inquiring about? i.e. you should not be comparing apples and oranges.

    next, how do you figure the average life expectancy of n.african youth in france compares to that
    of african american males?

    youthoutlook.orgdrylongso.no.o.html

    are you done now?

    done with what? done trying to argue with a manipulative [censored] like yourself? You should be so
    lucky. As disgusted as I am with your hypocrisy, lies, and all-around [censored], I'm not going to sit
    by idly while this nonsense goes unexposed. First of all the statistics on that page are neither
    here nor there (and you accuse me of comparing apples to oranges? Hypocrite?). You're going to have
    to do a little better than pointing me to the web site of some film (which, if I'm not mistaken, was
    made in Hollywood of all places). Assuming the statistics on that web site are even accurate (highly
    unlikely, but I digress), they say nothing about treatment of minorities in France or the U.S.,
    nothing about civil and economic rights, and, most glaringly, NOTHING about life expectancy of
    "North African youth". And even if it did, how is that relevant? How are you going to use that as a
    statistic to support your claim of differing degrees of racism in the U.S. and France? Has it
    occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, the point of that movie is to make a statement about black
    males vis-a-vis black females and not blacks vis-a-vis whites or, even more preposterously, blacks
    in the U.S. compared to Africans in France? If you ask me, that blatant lack of understanding belies
    an ignorant, patronizing attitude that is essentially no better (and far more dishonest and
    manipulative) than overt racism.

    Now kindly crawl back into your cave and please, if you do want to waste your time replying to this,
    do so in your own words...don't point me to some stupid web site.

  20. "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:5g0Ya.50969$cF.18343@rwcrnsc53...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > "Ed-D" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
    > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > >
    > > "trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > > > France is not racists against blacks per se (unless they


    come from

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the

    Quoted message said:

    > > > islands.) I know an African American woman who has lived


    in Paris

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    long

    Quoted message said:

    > > > enough that she speaks very good French. Sometimes she


    puts on more

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of

    Quoted message said:

    > an
    > > > American accent so she'll get treated better in stores if


    they don't

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > think
    > > > she's from the DOM-TOM.
    > > >
    > > > Racism against North African (arabs) is more open in


    France than

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > racisism
    > > > against African Americans is in the US, Though at the same


    time, I'd

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    say

    Quoted message said:

    > > > that French-North Africans are better integrated than


    African

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Americans

    Quoted message said:

    > are
    > > > in the US.
    > > >
    > >
    > > Oh yeah? How many French North Africans are there in the


    Academie

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Francaise?
    >
    > I have no idea. How many African Americans are on the board of


    directors

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of

    Quoted message said:

    > the Smithsonian Institute? Does it matter?

    No, that doesn't. But the Academie Francaise is a much bigger


    deal to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    France

    Quoted message said:

    than the Smithsonian Institute is to the U.S..

    How many French North Africans are there in the various houses


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    parliament?

    Quoted message said:

    How about in the courts? How about the supreme court?

    although charges of racism in france should not be dismissed, mass immigration of n.africans
    started ~40 years ago. how many


    vietnamese

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    migrants to the us are in the positions you are inquiring about?


    i.e. you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    should not be comparing apples and oranges.

    next, how do you figure the average life expectancy of n.african


    youth in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    france compares to that of african american males?

    youthoutlook.orgdrylongso.no.o.html

    are you done now?

    done with what? done trying to argue with a manipulative [censored] like


    yourself?

    Quoted message said:

    You should be so lucky. As disgusted as I am with your hypocrisy,


    lies, and

    Quoted message said:

    all-around [censored], I'm not going to sit by idly while this


    nonsense goes

    Quoted message said:

    unexposed. First of all the statistics on that page are neither here nor there


    (and you

    Quoted message said:

    accuse me of comparing apples to oranges?

    Did you like the part where it said that 70% of black men would be dead or unemployed as if that
    were in some manner equal fates?

    I am a white man that grew up in the Oakland ghetto. Very few of the black men I went through school
    with were unsuccessful. The reason was simple - when I grew up black families were still together.
    It was the Liberal [censored] who decided that blacks needed to be coddled and offered welfare to
    blacks as long as there wasn't a man in the house. That destroyed the black family unit and is the
    prime reason that blacks are in such dire peril in the USA compared to other countries where welfare
    rules are not in the slightest bit similar.

    Hypocrite?). You're going to have

    Quoted message said:

    to do a little better than pointing me to the web site of some film


    (which, if

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not mistaken, was made in Hollywood of all places). Assuming


    the

    Quoted message said:

    statistics on that web site are even accurate (highly unlikely, but


    I

    Quoted message said:

    digress), they say nothing about treatment of minorities in France


    or the

    Quoted message said:

    U.S., nothing about civil and economic rights, and, most glaringly,


    NOTHING

    Quoted message said:

    about life expectancy of "North African youth". And even if it did,


    how is

    Quoted message said:

    that relevant? How are you going to use that as a statistic to


    support your

    Quoted message said:

    claim of differing degrees of racism in the U.S. and France? Has it


    occurred

    Quoted message said:

    to you that maybe, just maybe, the point of that movie is to make a


    statement

    Quoted message said:

    about black males vis-a-vis black females and not blacks vis-a-vis


    whites or,

    Quoted message said:

    even more preposterously, blacks in the U.S. compared to Africans in


    France?

    Quoted message said:

    If you ask me, that blatant lack of understanding belies an


    ignorant,

    Quoted message said:

    patronizing attitude that is essentially no better (and far more


    dishonest and

    Quoted message said:

    manipulative) than overt racism.

    Now kindly crawl back into your cave and please, if you do want to


    waste your

    Quoted message said:

    time replying to this, do so in your own words...don't point me to


    some stupid

    Quoted message said:

    web site.

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