Harmless Fun, or Environmental Debacle?

Dave W <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (R.White) had this to say "]news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Uh, right. I'll bet you're one of those guys who act all nice in public then come home and give
your kids and old lady all kinds of grief because it makes you feel like a big man.

hahahahaha, what a pathetic loser. The question remains goat humper. How much ya' willing to lose?
hahahahaha

You already lost your wife. Quit while you're ahead.

Quoted message said:

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The reality is you are gutless [censored].

Said the man who sneaks around peoples homes enough to know how many names are on their mailbox.

If I was sneeking, I would have kept quiet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Talking big on Usenet is just another outlet for the
rage you feel due to the double life you lead. Nice in public, [censored] at home.

Quoted message said:

What's it to ya?

I guess I feel sorry for the children.

Quoted message said:

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Oh, by the way, got any biking content to share with us? No? then be gone lowlife...

Don't be so mean to your kids.

BBBBWWWWWHHHHHAAAAA! I quess not.

[email hidden] (R.White) had this to say
"]news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Dave W <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (R.White) had this to say
"]news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Uh, right. I'll bet you're one of those guys who act all nice in public then come home and give
your kids and old lady all kinds of grief because it makes you feel like a big man.

hahahahaha, what a pathetic loser. The question remains goat humper. How much ya' willing to
lose? hahahahaha

You already lost your wife. Quit while you're ahead.

Quoted message said:

If I was sneeking, I would have kept quiet.

Well, speaking strictly for myself, I'm glad you did. Gives me an excellent idea of what you're
all about....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Talking big on Usenet is just another outlet for the
rage you feel due to the double life you lead. Nice in public, [censored] at home.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time. What's it to ya?

I guess I feel sorry for the children.

I'm not even going to dignify this...

you seem to be taking an un-healthy interest in my children. And given that you are an admitted
stalker. Why I may just have to take this to the next level. Be careful foolio. Be very careful.

Pete Jones <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

no more long overseas trips for me, not any more - sick of seeing what tourism does to places.

OK, now I'm really curious. Something had to precipitate this change of philosophy. Even when things
build up over time, something has to be there to push you over the edge. Do tell.

Quoted message said:

of course, my newfound antipathy towards tourists applies to where i live as well - better
watch where you park your cars, cos i'm getting me a can of petrol + a zippo and i know how to
use 'em....

flat!"

Just don't hate us all.

CC

On 1 Feb 2004 19:05:39 -0800, [email hidden] (Corvus Corvax)
blathered:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

no more long overseas trips for me, not any more - sick of seeing what tourism does to places.

OK, now I'm really curious. Something had to precipitate this change of philosophy. Even when
things build up over time, something has to be there to push you over the edge.

Just the endpoint of a road I've been travelling for a while; been building up over the last few
years. After last year's trip in Asia I decided I was no longer prepared to go to countries that
didn't have the infrastructure to support me as a tourist.

(some of this cut & pasted from an email I sent last year)

I had a kind of epiphany in Laos last winter. I'd been feeling increasingly uneasy about the effects
of tourism that I was seeing as I cycled through SE Asia. After riding through NE Laos (pretty
remote area) I touched down in backpacker land again at a village called Nong Khiaw. Nice little
cluster of guest houses at the upstream end of town, all their toilets emptying straight into the
river....150 yards upstream of where the local villagers (the ones who haven't cashed in on the
tourist trade) were busy washing their clothes. And themselves. Too bad for them, eh? What struck me
was the fact that none of the tourists even seemed to be aware of what they were contributing to.

I've always known intellectually that tourism causes problems e.g. deforestation in Nepal to provide
trekkers with hot showers and pizzas. Living in the Lake District I can see how it's deteriorating
year after year. However, as a country we're rich enough to do something about it. The developing
world isn't, and I can no longer stomach what uncontrolled (and unsustainable) tourist development
is doing to these places.

As a solo cyclist I've always consoled myself with the idea that it's probably the most impact free
form of tourism going, but that's mere sophistry. I decided I wouln't be going to any more countries
that couldn't sustain my presence - hence New Zealand, or so I thought. In my naivety I thought NZ
might be a country that took the environmental impact of tourism seriously. What a joke - the
Queenstown area was a seething nightmare, and there were so many choppers landing fat tourists on
the Franz-Josef Glacier that it looked like the Berlin Airlift.

I don't want to be part of the problem. I'll probably still do short trips to adjacent countries
that I can get to on public transport (without flying), e.g. Norway and especially France, which
really IS a Pedallers' Paradise - but that's it.

I should stress this is just MY decision - I don't judge people who come to a different conclusion,
although it'd be nice if more people at least think about the issues.

Pete
----
btinternet.com~peteajonesOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

canyoncountryzephyr.com24 hour.htmOpen ↗

dreamride.com24hrrace2.htmlOpen ↗

To me it seems pretty dump to arrange a 24 hrs race in such a fragile environment.

There are other places where the nature has an enormous ability to heal, to regenerate itself, then
it can look bad after a major race, but within a couple of months it will be just as it was before
the race - save for the seasonal variation. Better to have 24 hrs races in such places.

Per lowdin.nulowdin.nuOpen ↗

Dave W <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (R.White) had this to say "]news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Dave W <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (R.White) had this to say
"]news:[email hidden]

> Uh, right. I'll bet you're one of those guys who act all nice in public then come home and
> give your kids and old lady all kinds of grief because it makes you feel like a big man.

hahahahaha, what a pathetic loser. The question remains goat humper. How much ya' willing to
lose? hahahahaha

You already lost your wife. Quit while you're ahead.

I have a pretty good idea. You sent her packing because you couldn't control her. You're a
control freak.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I was sneeking, I would have kept quiet.

Well, speaking strictly for myself, I'm glad you did. Gives me an excellent idea of what you're
all about....

You claim I have no idea, and brag that you do? I hit the nail on the head with what you're about
and it's giving you fits. Your reaction is typical control freak.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Talking big on Usenet is just another outlet for the
> rage you feel due to the double life you lead. Nice in public, [censored] at home.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time. What's it to ya?

I guess I feel sorry for the children.

I'm not even going to dignify this...

you seem to be taking an un-healthy interest in my children. And given that you are an admitted
stalker. Why I may just have to take this to the next level. Be careful foolio. Be very careful.

Lame threats from a lame control freak.

Pete Jones <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

I should stress this is just MY decision - I don't judge people who come to a different
conclusion, although it'd be nice if more people at least think about the issues.

God forbid you should make a greatly informed decision from personal experience that isn't stylish.
You don't have to judge ignorance, but then again you don't have to find it forgivable.

JD

Quoted message said:

After riding through NE Laos (pretty remote area) I touched down in backpacker land again at a
village called Nong Khiaw.

We chose not to go there at all. But stopped for a day in the backpacker ghettoVang Vieng.
Not much fun.

Per lowdin.nulowdin.nuOpen ↗

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:17:42 +0000 (UTC), Pete Jones
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip fabulous personal experiences]

Quoted message said:

I should stress this is just MY decision - I don't judge people who come to a different conclusion,
although it'd be nice if more people at least think about the issues.

Nice,

Bill

...one speed to rule them all, one speed to find them, one speed to bring them all and on the trails
pass them In the Land of Avalon where the geared pigs lie...

Pete Jones said:

I should stress this is just MY decision - I don't judge people who come to a different
conclusion, although it'd be nice if more people at least think about the issues.

Pete,

Thanks for the thoughtful, insightful, well written thoughts. Kinda stands in sharp contrast to the
two knuckleheads engaged in a name-calling contest below. I think you raise a tremendous question
about the impact of global tourism, whether for eco-reasons or not. I think similar examples can be
found across the tourism industry. The question in my mind, though concerns the impact on the
locals. I'm not one who believes locals should live in poverty and squalor just because it meets
some do-gooder's notion of authenticity. On the one hand these people (perhaps the very villagers
you mentioned) are just as entitled to improve their lot in life as the rest of us, but how do you
balance that with the potentially explotive needs of the tourism industry? Who gets to decide. We
struggle with that in our own country all over the place, and it ain't pretty. How do you handle
that in some third world banana republic with an exploitive gov't and nothing to offer but its
natural resources and natural beauty?

"tcmedara" <[email hidden]> had this to say
news:TCBTb.17618$fZ6.11093@lakeread06

Quoted message said:

Kinda stands in sharp contrast to the two knuckleheads engaged in a name-calling contest below.

Oh look. Another Hypocrite. I see what you mean about [censored] Pete.

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:09:40 -0500, "tcmedara"
<[email hidden]> blathered:

Quoted message said:

I think you raise a tremendous question about the impact of global tourism, whether for eco-reasons
or not. I think similar examples can be found across the tourism industry. The question in my mind,
though concerns the impact on the locals. I'm not one who believes locals should live in poverty
and squalor just because it meets some do-gooder's notion of authenticity. On the one hand these
people (perhaps the very villagers you mentioned) are just as entitled to improve their lot in life
as the rest of us, but how do you balance that with the potentially explotive needs of the tourism
industry? Who gets to decide. We struggle with that in our own country all over the place, and it
ain't pretty. How do you handle that in some third world banana republic with an exploitive gov't
and nothing to offer but its natural resources and natural beauty?

no, i don't subscribe to the 'quaintness of poverty' school of thought, but too much emphasis is
placed on the tourism = jobs equation, without looking at the quality of those jobs or any
associated problems.

it's almost impossible to discuss the issues without it degenerating into a finger pointing exercise
about what kind of tourism is worst. don't want to do that, so don't intend to go there. like i say,
it's a personal decision.

Pete
----
btinternet.com~peteajonesOpen ↗

Pete Jones said:

it's almost impossible to discuss the issues without it degenerating into a finger pointing
exercise about what kind of tourism is worst. don't want to do that, so don't intend to go there.
like i say, it's a personal decision.

Wasn't looking for a silly debate either. Your post just struck me as well thought out and quite
articulate -- a rare gem of cogent thought in an otherwise unremarkable sea of usenet silliness. It
made me ponder your decision and made me think of the how to frame the issue in my own mind. I
respect the personal nature of your decision, and don't disagree with your reasoning at all. My
response was really somewhat rhetorical in nature, as I don't think any of use here can answer those
questions with any degree of certainty.

Tom

Pete Jones <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:09:40 -0500, "tcmedara" <[email hidden]> blathered:

Quoted message said:

I think you raise a tremendous question about the impact of global tourism, whether for eco-
reasons or not. I think similar examples can be found across the tourism industry. The question
in my mind, though concerns the impact on the locals. I'm not one who believes locals should live
in poverty and squalor just because it meets some do-gooder's notion of authenticity. On the one
hand these people (perhaps the very villagers you mentioned) are just as entitled to improve
their lot in life as the rest of us, but how do you balance that with the potentially explotive
needs of the tourism industry? Who gets to decide. We struggle with that in our own country all
over the place, and it ain't pretty. How do you handle that in some third world banana republic
with an exploitive gov't and nothing to offer but its natural resources and natural beauty?

no, i don't subscribe to the 'quaintness of poverty' school of thought, but too much emphasis is
placed on the tourism = jobs equation, without looking at the quality of those jobs or any
associated problems.

it's almost impossible to discuss the issues without it degenerating into a finger pointing
exercise about what kind of tourism is worst. don't want to do that, so don't intend to go there.
like i say, it's a personal decision.

Pete
----
btinternet.com~peteajonesOpen ↗

ONE PEN ,ONE PEN ,ONE PEN.

gaz

On 5 Feb 2004 21:28:42 -0800, [email hidden] (gazzer)
blathered:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it's almost impossible to discuss the issues without it degenerating into a finger pointing
exercise about what kind of tourism is worst. don't want to do that, so don't intend to go there.
like i say, it's a personal decision.

ONE PEN ,ONE PEN ,ONE PEN.

Nooooooo-o-o-o-o-o...!!!!!!!!!

Pete
----
btinternet.com~peteajonesOpen ↗