Good luck to VT50 runners!!

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Good luck, Tony and Doug and any VT50 lurkers! Enjoy your run over the
hills and through the woods.

Thanks, seems like a good idea today 🙂

Forecast is Scattered T-storms and temps 55-70 which is a little warmer
than most years. OTOH, the canopy of the trees and with a little
elevation it could be 5-10 degrees less in places. Got my salt. They
are serving HEED this year and I have never tried it. It's has a
maltodextrin base which is good but there is always a flavor concern.
I hope they didn't make it taste like Gatorbarf. 😉 I asked the RD to
put out some Heed at package pickup Saturday so we could taste it. He
replied great idea and says it will be on the table. This will give
some people reaction and planning time. If the flavor is not palatable
you can always survive on water, Mountain Dew, Coke, etc and make sure
you get the missed carbs and salt from the table and/or use drop bags.
It's a great race with good aid stations. This will be my 10th and the
course is slightly different this year as every year. Even the distance
varies from year to year, the last two years it was 51.5.

There are five of us running, 2 for the 50k, and three for the 50miles
and one biker. Myself and two foxy babes trained well for this race.
One is doing the 50k but has a hard time holding down her pace in every
race. We have had long discussions about pace and she shakes her head
yes and then goes out hard. For her I'm concerned about her pace. I want
her to have a good experience. The other has three 50k's under belt and
whipped me in the last race we did together. She is strong and smart and
she will do well. She has some apprehension because she has never done
the distance. In her case apprehension translates to start slow and run
smart and finish strong.

Tony came up and ran with us for one of our training runs and can attest
to training and the foxes. By the way, he is good shape and will do
well.

In either case they are both well trained and ready. Not sure about me.
I have some great quality runs but only averaged about 40-50 a week. A
little light to attack the course. I'll try to chill until about 35
miles and if I still feel good try to run all the hills to the finish.

-DougF

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Good luck, Tony and Doug and any VT50 lurkers! Enjoy your run over the
hills and through the woods.

Dot

--
"running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
about ourselves" - Owen Anderson

Your quote is apt for me on the eve of this race. I'll certainly find out
more about myself in this race, in more ways than one. There are so many
unknowns for me, and that makes it exciting and at the same time a little
bit foreboding. Was my training enough? Too much training too recently?
How will the legs hold up after 35 miles? (Assuming they go good TO 35
miles). How will my stomach hold up? If my feet get wet, will they hold up?
(Bad history in this department). Even if they don't get wet how will they
hold up? Seemingly endless unknowns, even with many long training runs under
my belt.

I'm not worried about going out too fast, though that's still a possibility.
How to pace well to keep reserves for the end (last 15-20 miles) will be
hard, even going slow. The climb will take it out of the legs no matter
what, and that makes gauging pace even harder for me. At least I'm not
setting any time goal. The plan is to start slow (using walk breaks on flats
even to ensure this) and to try to run/hike within my limits and dole out
the effort. I just hope the recent training and taper works and the legs
will go well on race day. The signals I'm getting from my body are somewhat
mixed, but there are 2 days of complete rest remaining 🙂

Doug's crew will cook me I'm sure. I think his training plan was very well
thought-out. He told me a couple of his gals are coming up late so they can
run a 5k on Saturday morning before driving up - which is to me completely
insane. Unless you're just jogging the 5k it's going to sap your legs a bit.
They must be in damn good shape to even contemplate that IMO.

-Tony

"Tony S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:a%SYe.10104$LV5.1752@trndny02...

Quoted message said:

He told me a couple of his gals are coming up late so they can
run a 5k on Saturday morning before driving up - which is to me
completely
insane. Unless you're just jogging the 5k it's going to sap your legs
a bit.
They must be in damn good shape to even contemplate that IMO.

I think ther are both nuts to do the race but it's a club race for
points, yada, yada. They have abit of redliner in them. 😉 It won't
bother Jacque but it might bother Rachel. I really want them to have a
good race and not have to second guess a dinky 5k.

-Doug

Doug Freese said:

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Good luck, Tony and Doug and any VT50 lurkers! Enjoy your run over the
hills and through the woods.

Thanks, seems like a good idea today 🙂

Forecast is Scattered T-storms and temps 55-70 which is a little warmer
than most years. OTOH, the canopy of the trees and with a little
elevation it could be 5-10 degrees less in places. Got my salt. They
are serving HEED this year and I have never tried it. It's has a
maltodextrin base which is good but there is always a flavor concern.
I hope they didn't make it taste like Gatorbarf. 😉 I asked the RD to
put out some Heed at package pickup Saturday so we could taste it. He
replied great idea and says it will be on the table. This will give
some people reaction and planning time.

You consider the day before to be adequate testing? 😉 You'll have a
crew with your own stuff also though, won't you?

If the flavor is not palatable

Quoted message said:

you can always survive on water, Mountain Dew, Coke, etc and make sure
you get the missed carbs and salt from the table and/or use drop bags.

ok, this (drop bags) answered my question.

Quoted message said:

It's a great race with good aid stations. This will be my 10th and the
course is slightly different this year as every year. Even the distance
varies from year to year, the last two years it was 51.5.

There are five of us running, 2 for the 50k, and three for the 50miles
and one biker. Myself and two foxy babes trained well for this race.
One is doing the 50k but has a hard time holding down her pace in every
race. We have had long discussions about pace and she shakes her head
yes and then goes out hard. For her I'm concerned about her pace. I want
her to have a good experience. The other has three 50k's under belt and
whipped me in the last race we did together. She is strong and smart and
she will do well. She has some apprehension because she has never done
the distance. In her case apprehension translates to start slow and run
smart and finish strong.

I think it's fairly normal to be apprehensive about new distances and
new trails, isn't it? or am I the abnormal one? 😉

Quoted message said:

Tony came up and ran with us for one of our training runs and can attest
to training and the foxes. By the way, he is good shape and will do
well.

I'm sure he will. Once the race gets moving, people's apprehensions
frequently subside.

Quoted message said:

In either case they are both well trained and ready. Not sure about me.
I have some great quality runs but only averaged about 40-50 a week.

It's what's *in* the 40-50 mi that makes a difference.

A

Quoted message said:

little light to attack the course. I'll try to chill until about 35
miles and if I still feel good try to run all the hills to the finish.

Enjoy! And no red-lining there, gramps 🙂

Dot

--
"running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
about ourselves" - Owen Anderson

Tony S. said:

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Good luck, Tony and Doug and any VT50 lurkers! Enjoy your run over the
hills and through the woods.

Dot

--
"running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
about ourselves" - Owen Anderson

Your quote is apt for me on the eve of this race. I'll certainly find out
more about myself in this race, in more ways than one. There are so many
unknowns for me, and that makes it exciting and at the same time a little
bit foreboding. Was my training enough? Too much training too recently?
How will the legs hold up after 35 miles? (Assuming they go good TO 35
miles). How will my stomach hold up? If my feet get wet, will they hold up?
(Bad history in this department). Even if they don't get wet how will they
hold up? Seemingly endless unknowns, even with many long training runs under
my belt.

This is one of the reasons I've not bought into the usual schedules for
training, even though I started that way. They're fine for short
distances, but as the distance gets greater, there's so many more issues
than mileage - hills, rocks, roots, rain, snow, slush, wind, stream
crossings, food, fluid, carrying gear, major changes in weather, etc.
And "that makes it exciting and at the same time a little bit
foreboding." Kinda like a test 😉.

I'm definitely with ya on the concerns about wet feet. That's one of my
major issues to resolve.

But you've put together a long string of long runs. Not much more you
can do within a year. But people's experience level builds across years.

Quoted message said:

The plan is to start slow (using walk breaks on flats
even to ensure this) and to try to run/hike within my limits and dole out
the effort.

That sounds like a winning plan to me.

Quoted message said:

Doug's crew will cook me I'm sure. I think his training plan was very well
thought-out.

He's been at it awhile. I think he's learned a thing or two along the
way 🙂.

Quoted message said:

He told me a couple of his gals are coming up late so they can
run a 5k on Saturday morning before driving up - which is to me completely
insane.

He has some that run his hills on Saturday, then run snowshoe races on
Sunday. Not sure if these are the same ones.

Quoted message said:

Unless you're just jogging the 5k it's going to sap your legs a bit.

I never do any speed work and trail 5k's are rare, so my race a week ago
was a bit unusual in many ways. I had no pain at all during recovery;
everything seemed fine on flat, easy run 2 days later (just a couple
weeny hills), but 4 days later my legs (hams) protested (tired) when
trying to run uphill. That became a hike for a couple hours day and
explore some new trails.

Quoted message said:

They must be in damn good shape to even contemplate that IMO.

Definitely.

Enjoy.

Dot

--
"running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
about ourselves" - Owen Anderson

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Forecast is Scattered T-storms and temps 55-70 which is a little
warmer than most years. OTOH, the canopy of the trees and with a
little elevation it could be 5-10 degrees less in places. Got my
salt. They are serving HEED this year and I have never tried it.
It's has a maltodextrin base which is good but there is always a
flavor concern. I hope they didn't make it taste like Gatorbarf. 😉
I asked the RD to put out some Heed at package pickup Saturday so we
could taste it. He replied great idea and says it will be on the
table. This will give some people reaction and planning time.

You consider the day before to be adequate testing? 😉 You'll have a
crew with your own stuff also though, won't you?

I have a pretty solid stomach and why I can have a twelve course
breakfast and then run/race. The HEED contents meet my chemical needs
and if the taste is ok I'll give it a try. I'm not worried that it will
create a caldron later. Besides, I intermix, coke, Mountain Dew, Water,
Clip, Slimfast so I doubt any one of these fluids will have much
effect 0 it's a taste issue.

I don't usually have a crew for a 50. My wife always comes but goes
back for additional zzz's after she bids me off and calls the insurance
agent to increase the policy. She then goes for a walk maybe a swim if
the place has a pool and then hangs out at the finish line area. At
Bull Run she helped the finish line folks. She loved it and they
appreciated the extra hands. This year there will be a crew because
there are two other new people that are bringing SO's and want to help.
There are only two aid stations 12.5 and 30 that a crew can access. I
will grab a clip and Slimfast as long as they are there but if they
don't show I'm fine.

Quoted message said:

If the flavor is not palatable

Quoted message said:

you can always survive on water, Mountain Dew, Coke, etc and make
sure you get the missed carbs and salt from the table and/or use drop
bags.

ok, this (drop bags) answered my question.

Personally I have never used drop bags. Too many war stories about bags
getting lost or sent to wrong places. If I was really worried about
fluid I would just carry zip lock bags of Cytomax or SUCCEED!Ultra.

Quoted message said:

I think it's fairly normal to be apprehensive about new distances and
new trails, isn't it? or am I the abnormal one? 😉

Apprehension is very normal. I have many fellow runners that get nervous
and twitchy even if they have done the distance many times before. I can
fall asleep waiting for the start if they take too long to get started,

Quoted message said:

Enjoy! And no red-lining there, gramps 🙂

Not me but God help anyone that tries to pass me in the second half. 🙂

-Doug

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He told me a couple of his gals are coming up late so they can
run a 5k on Saturday morning before driving up - which is to me
completely
insane.

He has some that run his hills on Saturday, then run snowshoe races on
Sunday. Not sure if these are the same ones.

That's them. This summer they were doing road races on Sunday after
some our long Saturday runs. I would get the races results for the club
newsletter and see their names. Run 3-5 hours on Sat and run a 21-22 min
5k on Sunday. They would never tell me. 😉 Just for clarification I am
not, nor pretend to be their coach. I merelky laid out a weekend plan
of alternating long runs and tough hikes, i.e. the necessary long stuf
to get them to the starting line uninjured, aka base and power. The rest
of their training was in their ballpark but they are over achievers so I
know they were filling in the blanks with solid training. In some
cases they are better trained then me and why I think one will finish in
front of me. She is strong and 20 years yonger. Experience does count
but so does youth and good training. 😉

-DougF