Front suspension - effectiveness?

M i c C u l l e n said:

But the Innova is a hybrid with suspension for $700... (OK, it was nearly
$1K until they marked it down.)

The Innova is a comforty hybrid. But if you aren't comfortable on the
Blade then ...

The Mongoose equivelent has lockout on the suspension so you can ride
it either way (with the extra weight of course).

Suspension adds weight and makes it inefficent to stand on the pedals
(you use lower gears instead). It's designed for going over rocks on
trails and isn't that useful for riding on the road, though it will
take a bit of the bumps riding on roads, cycleways etc.

It is more efficient to use your arms, legs and back as shockabsorbers
on the road.

dewatf.

If it is a neck issue then get a hybrid, position will be much better. Your arms are better shock absorbers than a cheap fork anyhow.

LotteBum said:

My personal opinion is that if you ride a mountain bike with suspension on the road and it looks like you never ride it off road, then you're a poonce

Mine usually gets a wash & lube after it's been in the dirt, does that still make me a poonce? 🙂

M i c C u l l e n said:

G'day all.

As per my other posts, I'm looking to get a bike to ride to work.

OK, home from looking and testing bikes. (This might get a bit rambly - I'm
using it to think my way through the process as much as get further ideas -
being a journalist, the written word is something I like and relate to...)

Rode both some flat bar road-bikes (Giant CRX-3 & CRX-4) and some hybrids
(Giant Innova 05, Giant Farrago 05, Giant Farrago 06, Merida Crossway 8800
& 8500).

First point - the flat bar bikes beat me up, the hybrids don't. So I'm
getting a hybrid, irrespective of how bad I look. (And frankly, it's not
going to make a lot of difference, no matter how bad it is...)

Don't get me wrong, I liked the flat bars. But I liked the hybrids more,
because although they were slower, they didn't hurt. Pain is a demotivator.

So, the hybrids.

Giant Innova 05 $699
http://www.giant-bicycle.com/au/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2005&model=9896
Liked it a lot. Liked the brakes, and the changers. Good tyres. Good seat.

Giant Farrago 05 $550
http://www.giant-bicycle.com/au/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2005&model=9895
Comfortable, nice to ride.

Giant Farrago 06 $749
http://www.giant-bicycle.com/au/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2006&model=9992
Comfortable, brakes better than the 05.

Merida Crossway 8800 - $899
http://www.merida.nl/bikes2005/crossway8800.html
Nothing special, too expensive

Merida Crossway 8500 - $599
http://www.merida.nl/bikes2005/crossway8500.html
Nothing special

Best Salesman - Wayne @ Cyclemania in North Perth ('Salesman' is used in a
good way here :-) Joe from Cyclerama was also very good.

Unfortunately, Cyclemania only have the 06 models.

A point is that the 06 Giant's have a lifetime warranty on the frame.

My gut feel is to go for the 05 Innova, or the 05 Farrago (Only one of each
remains...). I preferred the 05 Innova.

I'll sleep on it.

Thanks to all for their input so far.

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

dewatf said:

Quoted message said:

But the Innova is a hybrid with suspension for $700... (OK, it was nearly
$1K until they marked it down.)

The Innova is a comforty hybrid. But if you aren't comfortable on the
Blade then ...

The Mongoose equivelent has lockout on the suspension so you can ride
it either way (with the extra weight of course).

Suspension adds weight and makes it inefficent to stand on the pedals
(you use lower gears instead). It's designed for going over rocks on
trails and isn't that useful for riding on the road, though it will
take a bit of the bumps riding on roads, cycleways etc.

Yes, I'm sold on it (on the 'better' bikes, anyway). I'm about fitness, not
speed, so the inefficiency isn't a huge problem at this stage.

Quoted message said:

It is more efficient to use your arms, legs and back as shockabsorbers
on the road.

Mmmmm, if they're in good nick, I'd agree.

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

M i c C u l l e n said:

G'day all.

As per my other posts, I'm looking to get a bike to ride to work.

I've been told various stories regarding front suspension, the most
believable being that the cheap ones simply add weight,

Nah, even a low-end elastomer suspension fork will swallow some lumps and bumps. But they're no fun even on easy trails and I've had two of them freeze up on me. (Better maintenance would have avoided that, but the nice Marzocchi saw just as little TLC and still works somewhat.)
If a cheap one is still worth the cost/weight tradeoff I can't say, that's far too dependent on your requirements and riding conditions.

Quoted post said:

...and the more expensive ones are OK.

Push enough money into an XC fork and you can just about make the weight penalty go away, particularly if we're talking about a commuter bike application. But they usually offer far more adjustability and reliability. You can have it softer when you're starting out and set it stiffer when you want a more responsive bike.

If I were to set up a comfy bike for road use for myself I'd take a close look at suspension front hubs and a suspension seat post. To me that looks like a close to ideal way to get rid of small bumps and vibrations with the least penalty in stiffness and weight. Curbs and potholes are fewer and more easily spotted and would have to be dealt with by rider action instead.

M i c C u l l e n said:

M i c C u l l e n said:

G'day all.

As per my other posts, I'm looking to get a bike to ride to work.

OK, home from looking and testing bikes. (This might get a bit rambly - I'm
using it to think my way through the process as much as get further ideas -
being a journalist, the written word is something I like and relate to...)

Rode both some flat bar road-bikes (Giant CRX-3 & CRX-4) and some hybrids
(Giant Innova 05, Giant Farrago 05, Giant Farrago 06, Merida Crossway 8800
& 8500).

First point - the flat bar bikes beat me up, the hybrids don't. So I'm
getting a hybrid, irrespective of how bad I look. (And frankly, it's not
going to make a lot of difference, no matter how bad it is...)

Good. Flat bar roadies are an abomination. Suggestion, if you'll
be riding anything with any sort of flat bar (hybrid, MTB etc)
then get bar ends, and put them *inside* not on the end of the bars.
Makes for a more comfortable alternative for your hands.

http://www.giant-bicycle.com/au/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2005&model=9896

Quoted message said:

Liked it a lot. Liked the brakes, and the changers. Good tyres. Good seat.

Don't buy a bike for the seat, you can swap them trivially easily.

Quoted message said:

A point is that the 06 Giant's have a lifetime warranty on the frame.

That's worth having. Trek do the same. If there's a trek dealer in
WA, take a few of their bikes for a testride too.

Bleve said:

Quoted message said:

First point - the flat bar bikes beat me up, the hybrids don't. So I'm
getting a hybrid, irrespective of how bad I look. (And frankly, it's not
going to make a lot of difference, no matter how bad it is...)

Good. Flat bar roadies are an abomination. Suggestion, if you'll
be riding anything with any sort of flat bar (hybrid, MTB etc)
then get bar ends, and put them *inside* not on the end of the bars.
Makes for a more comfortable alternative for your hands.

Got a link with a pic for that?

Quoted message said:

http://www.giant-bicycle.com/au/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2005&model=9896

Quoted message said:

Liked it a lot. Liked the brakes, and the changers. Good tyres. Good seat.

Don't buy a bike for the seat, you can swap them trivially easily.

Sure, but it's nice to have it there to start with, all other things being
equal. (Which they're never going to be, I know, I know :-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A point is that the 06 Giant's have a lifetime warranty on the frame.

That's worth having.

Mmmm, but how much is it worth, that's the question I'm looking at here.
$200-$250 is a fair bit in this price range.

Quoted message said:

Trek do the same. If there's a trek dealer in
WA, take a few of their bikes for a testride too.

Looks like it's only Bikeforce, which I've never thought of as any good at
all. I'll try to get along there tomorrow.

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

"M i c C u l l e n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

LotteBum said:

My personal opinion is that if you ride a mountain bike with suspension
on the road and it looks like you never ride it off road, then you're a
poonce.

At 42, I care FAR more about how my body is coping than I do about how I
look.

Quoted message said:

If you're worried about bumps, then get a hybrid or something like
that.

Yes, that one of the options.

Quoted message said:

If you want to ride in the bush, then a $700 bike will never cut
it anyway, regardless of how much movement the fork is capable of.

I don't.

Quoted message said:

Oh... and a $700 bike with suspension is a piece of sh!t. You'd get an
alright hybrid for that sort of money.

But the Innova is a hybrid with suspension for $700... (OK, it was nearly
$1K until they marked it down.)

Quoted message said:

Did I mention that you'd look like a poonce?

Yes, but I'm past such superficial things, I'm far more interested in my
health. I just want something that will work - it can be pink with fluffy
bunnies for all I care if it will do the job. (Well, I'd prefer it wasn't
pink.)

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

My 2 cents:
I've recently returned from pootling around in Tuscany before riding the
Rhein through Germany. A bit more than the average commute. I've got
deteriorated C3 & 4 as well as carpal tunnel problems in both hands (right
has been operated - didn't work). That means having to be careful on my
bikes as far as position and load is concerned.

I've had drop bar bikes. Good, but they became very uncomfortable for me
over more than about 20km. With the crook neck and wrists the range of
alternative hand positions wasn't much use - I could only ride comfortably
on the hoods anyway. I prefer the fit and feel of my mountain bikes.

The bike I took with me to Europe is a crom-moly GT frame with a suspension
post, a fairly high adjustable stem (weighs a bit, but who cares?!) with 1
1/2" riser bars and Judy forks adjusted to minimum travel (63mm). It worked
well for me, especially when I installed a pair of Ergon grips. No real pain
even when doing 80 or 100km in a day.

I also have rigid forks for the bike. They work OK but I do find the shock
transferrs to my hands and neck when I hit bumps. Normal riding is OK - I
keep an eye out and avoid potholes and so-on when I can. It's the unexpected
hits that get me occasionally, and they can hurt! Neck and wrists jarred
good and proper! I find the suspension forks are more of an insurance
against the unexpected or the unavoidable. They're not worth the weight as
far as usual riding n the road is concerned.

I'm in Roleystone - Perth hills. You're welcome to borrow the GT and ride
with and without the rigid forks. I don't use it much right now - I've just
bought a Giant CRX3. Email me off list on pangloss@(take this bit
out).iinet.net.au Once you've tried with and without you might be in a
better position to make up your mind.

After a couple of weeks on the Giant I've found that the 700c wheels help
with bump absorbtion (a bit!) and the suspension seatpost helps too. It's
really no quicker than my GT for commuting, but I'm a sucker for a new bike!

Cheers,

Frank

M i c C u l l e n wrote:

At 42, I care FAR more about how my body is coping than I do about how I
look.

I would be too. But trust me, your body is hardly going to take a battering from riding a bike with no suspension.

But the Innova is a hybrid with suspension for $700... (OK, it was nearly
$1K until they marked it down.)

Then sure... whatever. Do it.... In case you don't remember, I specifically stated that it was my personal opinion. People can ride whatever they want, I just think it's important to buy a bike which is suitable for what you want to do with it.

Yes, but I'm past such superficial things, I'm far more interested in my
health. I just want something that will work - it can be pink with fluffy
bunnies for all I care if it will do the job. (Well, I'd prefer it wasn't
pink.)

I reiterate my above comment - riding a bike with no suspension won't kill you. Getting run over might... and that's far more likely.

Lotte

Tony F wrote:

Bollocks. A $700 mtb will do way more than most people need in the bush.
<snip>

Yeah value for money is pretty good now, but I still reckon $700 bikes are flimsy and [censored]. Sure if you want a bike that'll go off once a week for a year, then a $700 bike might cut it, but I personally don't think it'd be worth it. And why wouldn't you want to get better at it anyway? The better you get at riding off road, the more fun it is.

To say this $700 bike "will never cut it" in the bush is bollocks. Maybe it
wouldn't cut it with you or I riding, but that's not the point. ;^)

That's right. I'm hard core.

Many people only ride recreationally, and fairly gently. These bikes will cope.

Ah what's the point in riding gently off road? You have to go fast otherwise it's just no fun! Also, if you were to ride regularly, you'd get better... and soon enough you'd also think the $700 piece of sh!t you bought is well... a piece of shi!t!

You should have seen what the others in last week's newbie ride were riding.
<snip>

I'm sure they'll all 'cope', but it's about durability, hoping that your frame won't snap when you jump over something or even lift your front wheel over a log.

It looks like we disagree, Tony. My mountainbike is about $1700 worth and it's 3 years old with no rebound dampening in the forks (obviously I don't have dual suspension because this, IN MY OPINION, also makes you a poonce. Har har).

Ready, set, FIRE!

LotteBum

P.S. Mountain biking sucks. Har har.

"LotteBum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony F wrote:

Bollocks. A $700 mtb will do way more than most people need in the
bush.
<snip>

Yeah value for money is pretty good now, but I still reckon $700 bikes
are flimsy and [censored]. Sure if you want a bike that'll go off once a
week for a year, then a $700 bike might cut it, but I personally don't
think it'd be worth it. And why wouldn't you want to get better at it
anyway? The better you get at riding off road, the more fun it is.

But that $700 bike will often have exactly the same frame as one costing
several hundred (or more) more. They cut costs with components - cheaper
gears, BB, drivetrain, wheels, forks, etc. My new bike (duallie) has the
same frame as the next model up - but is $1000s less to buy as the
components aren't as good. I'm going to break components anyway, so as I
upgrade them, my bike will get better.

Quoted message said:

To say this $700 bike "will never cut it" in the bush is bollocks.
Maybe it
wouldn't cut it with you or I riding, but that's not the point. ;^)

That's right. I'm hard core.

d00d!

Quoted message said:

Many people only ride recreationally, and fairly gently. These bikes
will cope.

Ah what's the point in riding gently off road? You have to go fast
otherwise it's just no fun! Also, if you were to ride regularly, you'd
get better... and soon enough you'd also think the $700 piece of sh!t
you bought is well... a piece of shi!t!

Sniff the flowers sometimes, not always, but sometimes. You'd be mad to
spend, oh, say $1700, and then discover mountain biking sucks!! ;^P

Quoted message said:

You should have seen what the others in last week's newbie ride were
riding.
<snip>

I'm sure they'll all 'cope', but it's about durability, hoping that
your frame won't snap when you jump over something or even lift your
front wheel over a log.

OK, I admit it, I did snap my hardtail, but it was 11 years old, and has
been well and truly used. Jumped, stacked, and generally thrashed around the
Blue Mountains tracks. Going back to my point, newbies don't jump, they
don't pop wheels over logs, but even if they did, that $700 bike will cope -
at their level. My ($700 equivalent) hardtail coped for many years, and I
reckon I was well past the newbie stage. Wheels didn't last, but the bike
did.

Quoted message said:

It looks like we disagree, Tony. My mountainbike is about $1700 worth
and it's 3 years old with no rebound dampening in the forks (obviously
I don't have dual suspension because this, IN MY OPINION, also makes
you a poonce. Har har).

$1700 and no rebound? Sheesh! For that money on a hardtail, I'd want
rebound. I have a duallie, and I'm proud to be a poonce... ;^P Or am I just
soft? Probably both, but at least I'm a comfortable poonce.

Yep, we disagree. I'll still say that a $700 bike is strong enough for most
people to start with. If they get hardcore, then they should spend more. If
they come from BMX and know they'll be jumping lots, spend more, but for Joe
and Jo Average, don't bother.

Quoted message said:

Ready, set, FIRE!

Oh no, she's loaded the shottie!

Quoted message said:

LotteBum

P.S. Mountain biking sucks. Har har.

Lotte Lotte Lotte, looks like your time on mtb-oz has permanently scarred
you! ;^)

Tony F

But that $700 bike will often have exactly the same frame as one costing
several hundred (or more) more. They cut costs with components - cheaper
gears, BB, drivetrain, wheels, forks, etc.

Yeah good point... I buckled a wheel on my mtb. Actually, I didn't do it. Seriously, I was 'just riding along' and it literally went "Poing!" and then it was seriously buckled. Getting a new wheel to match the front one was a bit of a sh!tfight.

My new bike (duallie) has the same frame as the next model up - but is $1000s less to buy as the components aren't as good. I'm going to break components anyway, so as I upgrade them, my bike will get better.

That's one way to do it I suppose. I was originally thinking I'd upgrade my bike as I went along, but the only upgrades it has had in the three years I've had it have been the back wheel (which was upgraded with a stronger - but matching - rim) and the casette and that wasn't my fault (Paul is a weight weenie when it comes to bits. In my opinion, I'd rather shave 5kg off my big fat @rse than shave it off my bike - makes more sense). He wants me to get new cranks, but I'm quite content with mine. Also, my forks aren't sh!t hot, but I still think they're da bomb. I sometimes get a little bounced, but that doesn't matter - it makes me better at it!

d00d!

Yo. Word.

Sniff the flowers sometimes, not always, but sometimes.

Ugh, no way! Flowers are for wishing I had when I'm sitting around at home looking at my sad, pathetic back yard which has been destroyed by my (very hungry) dog.

You'd be mad to spend, oh, say $1700, and then discover mountain biking sucks!! ;^P

Yeah you would be. But we all know that mountain biking sucks, so why would you even do it?

OK, I admit it, I did snap my hardtail, but it was 11 years old, and has
been well and truly used.

HA!!! I GOTCHA!

$1700 and no rebound? Sheesh! For that money on a hardtail, I'd want
rebound.

I got it for about $1,400 but this was also 3 years ago and the bike is still in really good condition considering just how hard caw I am. Consider also that my 'shelf market' is a lot smaller than your average bloke's because of my build. Trust me, buying bikes is harder than bras for me. It's awful! So anyway, I was quite limited in my choice of bikes because most of them are long (don't even get me started on those pathetic 'womens specific frames'😉.

I have a duallie, and I'm proud to be a poonce... ;^P Or am I just soft? Probably both, but at least I'm a comfortable poonce.

You are a big, soft poonce.

Lotte Lotte Lotte, looks like your time on mtb-oz has permanently scarred
you! ;^)

Ha, those were the days. The end of my mtb-oz days came when I spent a few months living with one particular person who.... completely freaked me out with his appalling lack of hygiene. Try cleaning dried ice cream mixed with nail clippings out of a bowl from which you frequently eat. Alright, I'm dry retching now. I still speak to JohnJohn and had breakfast with Gumby earlier this year. Haven't spoken to Chuan in ages though, but I hear he's married now. Easily one of the nicest people I've met in my life.

And of course I love mountain biking. I just don't always think it's wise to encourage too many people to do it because it puts a lot of wear and tear on tracks and... well they're just plain [censored] annoying. Same goes for road... although I think more people should ride for the sake of the environment, those people also annoy quite the living sh!t out of me with their red-light-running antics and general hopelessness when it comes to general cycling etiquette. JUST GET BACK IN THAT PRADO! OK?

LotteBum

M i c C u l l e n said:

Bleve said:

Quoted message said:

First point - the flat bar bikes beat me up, the hybrids don't. So I'm
getting a hybrid, irrespective of how bad I look. (And frankly, it's not
going to make a lot of difference, no matter how bad it is...)

Good. Flat bar roadies are an abomination. Suggestion, if you'll
be riding anything with any sort of flat bar (hybrid, MTB etc)
then get bar ends, and put them *inside* not on the end of the bars.
Makes for a more comfortable alternative for your hands.

Got a link with a pic for that?

I'll see if I can get one ... will get back to you.