Front suspension - effectiveness?

M i c C u l l e n said:

G'day all.

As per my other posts, I'm looking to get a bike to ride to work.

I've been told various stories regarding front suspension, the most
believable being that the cheap ones simply add weight, and the more
expensive ones are OK.

Having ridden an Avanti Blade Sport today and suffering this arvo
(possibly) as a result, I'm even more inclined to buy something a bit
softer.

About the most expensive I can run to is an 05 Innova ($700), unless
someone can convince me a Revive or something else is REALLY worth the
extra :-)

Anyway, the question is - for street riding, almost all on bitumen, is it
worth getting a bike with suspension of the quality level of the Innova,
which runs a "SR Suntour Magnesium 1 1/8th ahead" fork, or is that just
kidding myself?

TIA.

For street riding it aint worth having suspension at all in my opinion.

Dave

Dave said:

For street riding it aint worth having suspension at all in my opinion.

Wear bike gloves, the palm padding makes a big difference.
Padding on the bars, Fi'zi'k bar gel or similar, helps too.

Suspension just means more work, so you hurt more!

M i c C u l l e n said:

G'day all.

As per my other posts, I'm looking to get a bike to ride to work.

I've been told various stories regarding front suspension, the most
believable being that the cheap ones simply add weight, and the more
expensive ones are OK.

Having ridden an Avanti Blade Sport today and suffering this arvo
(possibly) as a result, I'm even more inclined to buy something a bit
softer.

About the most expensive I can run to is an 05 Innova ($700), unless
someone can convince me a Revive or something else is REALLY worth the
extra :-)

Anyway, the question is - for street riding, almost all on bitumen, is it
worth getting a bike with suspension of the quality level of the Innova,
which runs a "SR Suntour Magnesium 1 1/8th ahead" fork, or is that just
kidding myself?

TIA.

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

Hi,

Depends a lot on what you mean by 'suffering' as to whether suspension would help. Is it just hands or is the whole body? If it's the whole body then it's probably just a matter of getting used to the bike and the regular riding, and suspension wouldn't make much of a difference to that. If it's hands and arms, then the advice about gloves and such is relevant, but suspension could make a difference. One ride on a new bike is probably too short to work out what's causing what problem, if you know what I mean.

I've commuted with and without suspension (currently without). I'd agree that it's not necessary on bitumen, but if you're finding that the potholes and kerbs on your route do shatter you a bit (I know when I took off my suspension forks and put on a *very* rigid set of forks it took me a while to adjust) then a simple set of forks might help take the sting out, which can help you feel better/fresher and thus enhance your ride. When I commuted on a dual suspension bike (it was all I had at the time) I'll admit it was overkill, but geez, was it cushy and smooth...

Suntour forks are mid-low range forks, and I don't know that much about them. Be aware that they will add a chunk of weight and require regular maintenance to keep them performing well and not becoming a liability. I doubt you'd need a Revive... Ideally I reckon it would be great to find something with a set of air-sprung forks - Lightweight, simple, and you can tune them to your body weight and firm them up as much as you like for the bitumen ride. But that might be hard to find in your price range.

Or you could experiment with some other options. Bigger/fatter/softer front tyre. Bigger softer grips. Something with riser bars and a more relaxed posture. Or find a suspension stem somewhere (do they still sell those??).

eddiec said:

Depends a lot on what you mean by 'suffering'

Sorry, for got to add to this post that I've got a pretty stuffed neck
(C3-C4) from a motorbike accident a few years ago. Jarring it around
doesn't do it much good :-)

Quoted message said:

as to whether suspension
would help. Is it just hands or is the whole body? If it's the whole

Mostly just the neck.

Quoted message said:

body then it's probably just a matter of getting used to the bike and
the regular riding, and suspension wouldn't make much of a difference
to that. If it's hands and arms, then the advice about gloves and such
is relevant, but suspension could make a difference. One ride on a new
bike is probably too short to work out what's causing what problem, if
you know what I mean.

Yeah, exactly. As I said in another post, just getting used to being back
on a bike on the road will take some getting used to.

Quoted message said:

I've commuted with and without suspension (currently without). I'd
agree that it's not necessary on bitumen, but if you're finding that
the potholes and kerbs on your route do shatter you a bit (I know when
I took off my suspension forks and put on a *very* rigid set of forks
it took me a while to adjust) then a simple set of forks might help
take the sting out, which can help you feel better/fresher and thus
enhance your ride. When I commuted on a dual suspension bike (it was
all I had at the time) I'll admit it was overkill, but geez, was it
cushy and smooth...

And hard work :-)

Quoted message said:

Suntour forks are mid-low range forks, and I don't know that much about
them. Be aware that they will add a chunk of weight and require regular
maintenance to keep them performing well and not becoming a liability.
I doubt you'd need a Revive... Ideally I reckon it would be great to
find something with a set of air-sprung forks - Lightweight, simple,
and you can tune them to your body weight and firm them up as much as
you like for the bitumen ride. But that might be hard to find in your
price range.

Yeah :-(

Quoted message said:

Or you could experiment with some other options. Bigger/fatter/softer
front tyre. Bigger softer grips. Something with riser bars and a more
relaxed posture. Or find a suspension stem somewhere (do they still
sell those??).

Would putting a taller stem and different bars on the Avanti Sport be a
viable idea (I liked the bike) or would it screw up the geometry?

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

Quoted message said:

Would putting a taller stem and different bars on the Avanti Sport be a
viable idea (I liked the bike) or would it screw up the geometry?

Sure you should try putting a taller stem. And then widest tires Avanti
can take. Suspension is for cross-country.

I had a Trek MTB with suspension, and it always hurt after 3-4 hours
riding. Now I have an older than me drop bars roady with a tall(ish)
stem and it doesn't hurt after 5-6 hours.

M i c C u l l e n said:

Quoted message said:

I've commuted with and without suspension (currently without). I'd
agree that it's not necessary on bitumen, but if you're finding that
the potholes and kerbs on your route do shatter you a bit (I know when
I took off my suspension forks and put on a *very* rigid set of forks
it took me a while to adjust) then a simple set of forks might help
take the sting out, which can help you feel better/fresher and thus
enhance your ride. When I commuted on a dual suspension bike (it was
all I had at the time) I'll admit it was overkill, but geez, was it
cushy and smooth...

And hard work :-)

Funnily enough, it wasn't really all that much harder! It was a fairly lightweight (no heavier than my old commuter i now use), firmly sprung slick-shod duallie which served me well for a couple of years of bitumen-commuting. Some wasted effort no doubt, but not as much as it could have been.

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

Or you could experiment with some other options. Bigger/fatter/softer
front tyre. Bigger softer grips. Something with riser bars and a more
relaxed posture. Or find a suspension stem somewhere (do they still
sell those??).

Would putting a taller stem and different bars on the Avanti Sport be a
viable idea (I liked the bike) or would it screw up the geometry?

My gut reaction says that should be ok... If it makes you more comfortable, then by all means do so. You could even get one of those adjustable stems if you want to experiment a bit with your position, at the expense of a bit more weight. Then once you've worked out what's right you can replace it with a fixed stem...

Since it's your neck that's the problem, I'd probably say that position and fit are more important than suspension, given that your arms and legs give your far more potential shock-absorption than even the longest travel forks and shocks, and would probably be easier to find a solution in your price range. You can always retrofit a good suspension fork onto it later if you find you still want some more comfort.

M i c C u l l e n said:

G'day all.

As per my other posts, I'm looking to get a bike to ride to work.

I've been told various stories regarding front suspension, the most
believable being that the cheap ones simply add weight, and the more
expensive ones are OK.

Having ridden an Avanti Blade Sport today and suffering this arvo
(possibly) as a result, I'm even more inclined to buy something a bit
softer.

Out of curiosity (now I've read the rest of your followups, and
the neck injury), what does your physio say? Most bike riding
positions will load your neck up, unless you're pretty-much
bolt upright. A light weight helmet may make things easier
for you, and obviously as upright a position as possible. You may
also benefit from a suspension seatpost - as you become more upright,
you can't flex your back as much to absorb bumps, so a suspension
seatpost may make a measurable difference - maybe more than suspension
forks, depending on the ratio of your weight that's being carried
from arms to [censored].

Quoted message said:

About the most expensive I can run to is an 05 Innova ($700), unless
someone can convince me a Revive or something else is REALLY worth the
extra :-)

A $700 hybrid will be one very flash bit of kit.

My personal opinion is that if you ride a mountain bike with suspension on the road and it looks like you never ride it off road, then you're a poonce.

If you're worried about bumps, then get a hybrid or something like that. If you want to ride in the bush, then a $700 bike will never cut it anyway, regardless of how much movement the fork is capable of. Oh... and a $700 bike with suspension is a piece of sh!t. You'd get an alright hybrid for that sort of money.

Did I mention that you'd look like a poonce?

LotteBum

P.S. I hate Griffith University at the moment.

Bleve said:

Quoted message said:

Having ridden an Avanti Blade Sport today and suffering this arvo
(possibly) as a result, I'm even more inclined to buy something a bit
softer.

Out of curiosity (now I've read the rest of your followups, and
the neck injury), what does your physio say? Most bike riding

It depends on which one I talk to :-) Honestly, I haven't been to the
physio too much lately - I bought a SpineMelter 2000 chair from HN, and sit
in it every day, and it achieves about the same, and costs a LOT less. (As
well as being on call 24/7.)

Quoted message said:

positions will load your neck up, unless you're pretty-much
bolt upright. A light weight helmet may make things easier
for you, and obviously as upright a position as possible. You may
also benefit from a suspension seatpost - as you become more upright,
you can't flex your back as much to absorb bumps, so a suspension
seatpost may make a measurable difference - maybe more than suspension
forks, depending on the ratio of your weight that's being carried
from arms to [censored].

All good points.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

About the most expensive I can run to is an 05 Innova ($700), unless
someone can convince me a Revive or something else is REALLY worth the
extra :-)

A $700 hybrid will be one very flash bit of kit.

You'd hope so, eh?

the Blade is about $400, but I don't want to buy it and then spend the rest
of the difference optioning it up, trying to get it to the same as the
Innova.

Ah well, I'll head out this morning and look at/try a few more.

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

eddiec said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When I commuted on a dual suspension bike (it was
all I had at the time) I'll admit it was overkill, but geez, was it
cushy and smooth...

And hard work :-)

Funnily enough, it wasn't really all that much harder! It was a fairly
lightweight (no heavier than my old commuter i now use), firmly sprung
slick-shod duallie which served me well for a couple of years of
bitumen-commuting. Some wasted effort no doubt, but not as much as it
could have been.

Actually, "wasted effort" doesn't mean too much to me - all of my current
'riding' is done on an exercise bike, so there's not much more wasted than
that :-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or you could experiment with some other options.

Bigger/fatter/softer

Quoted message said:

front tyre. Bigger softer grips. Something with riser bars and a

more

Quoted message said:

relaxed posture. Or find a suspension stem somewhere (do they still
sell those??).

Would putting a taller stem and different bars on the Avanti Sport be
a
viable idea (I liked the bike) or would it screw up the geometry?

My gut reaction says that should be ok... If it makes you more
comfortable, then by all means do so. You could even get one of those
adjustable stems if you want to experiment a bit with your position, at
the expense of a bit more weight. Then once you've worked out what's
right you can replace it with a fixed stem...

Good point.

Quoted message said:

Since it's your neck that's the problem, I'd probably say that position
and fit are more important than suspension, given that your arms and
legs give your far more potential shock-absorption than even the
longest travel forks and shocks, and would probably be easier to find a
solution in your price range. You can always retrofit a good suspension
fork onto it later if you find you still want some more comfort.

Yeah. Thanks for that.

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

LotteBum said:

My personal opinion is that if you ride a mountain bike with suspension
on the road and it looks like you never ride it off road, then you're a
poonce.

At 42, I care FAR more about how my body is coping than I do about how I
look.

Quoted message said:

If you're worried about bumps, then get a hybrid or something like
that.

Yes, that one of the options.

Quoted message said:

If you want to ride in the bush, then a $700 bike will never cut
it anyway, regardless of how much movement the fork is capable of.

I don't.

Quoted message said:

Oh... and a $700 bike with suspension is a piece of sh!t. You'd get an
alright hybrid for that sort of money.

But the Innova is a hybrid with suspension for $700... (OK, it was nearly
$1K until they marked it down.)

Quoted message said:

Did I mention that you'd look like a poonce?

Yes, but I'm past such superficial things, I'm far more interested in my
health. I just want something that will work - it can be pink with fluffy
bunnies for all I care if it will do the job. (Well, I'd prefer it wasn't
pink.)

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

M i c C u l l e n said:

Bleve said:

Quoted message said:

Having ridden an Avanti Blade Sport today and suffering this arvo
(possibly) as a result, I'm even more inclined to buy something a bit
softer.

Out of curiosity (now I've read the rest of your followups, and
the neck injury), what does your physio say? Most bike riding

It depends on which one I talk to :-) Honestly, I haven't been to the
physio too much lately - I bought a SpineMelter 2000 chair from HN, and sit
in it every day, and it achieves about the same, and costs a LOT less. (As
well as being on call 24/7.)

I'm not so much refering to massage, as strengthening work. Without
knowing the nature of your injury, most of the time I've been to
see a physio (and there are good physios and hacks ...) they've put me
on an exercise progam. As riding a bike will almost always involve
canting your head forward and loading your neck muscles, if they
haven't been used much (due to injury etc) then they may benefit
from some exercise?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

About the most expensive I can run to is an 05 Innova ($700), unless
someone can convince me a Revive or something else is REALLY worth the
extra :-)

A $700 hybrid will be one very flash bit of kit.

You'd hope so, eh?

the Blade is about $400, but I don't want to buy it and then spend the rest
of the difference optioning it up, trying to get it to the same as the
Innova.

You'll spend that anyway, on helmet, seatbag, tubes, patches,
a pump, knicks etc ... but it's way cheaper than petrol and a
lot more fun!

Bleve said:

Quoted message said:

It depends on which one I talk to :-) Honestly, I haven't been to the
physio too much lately - I bought a SpineMelter 2000 chair from HN, and sit
in it every day, and it achieves about the same, and costs a LOT less. (As
well as being on call 24/7.)

I'm not so much refering to massage, as strengthening work. Without
knowing the nature of your injury, most of the time I've been to
see a physio (and there are good physios and hacks ...) they've put me
on an exercise progam. As riding a bike will almost always involve
canting your head forward and loading your neck muscles, if they
haven't been used much (due to injury etc) then they may benefit
from some exercise?

That approach has pretty much been given up on, although I'm about to get
back into my weights program. (Just moved house a month ago, still getting
everything setup...)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the Blade is about $400, but I don't want to buy it and then spend the rest
of the difference optioning it up, trying to get it to the same as the
Innova.

You'll spend that anyway, on helmet, seatbag, tubes, patches,
a pump, knicks etc ... but it's way cheaper than petrol and a
lot more fun!

Ah, that's OK - that's just ancillary stuff and thus not part of the
"purchase cost" I've got to explain to my wife! :-)

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

eddiec said:

When I commuted on a dual suspension bike (it was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all I had at the time) I'll admit it was overkill, but geez, was it
cushy and smooth...

And hard work :-)

Funnily enough, it wasn't really all that much harder! It was a fairly
lightweight (no heavier than my old commuter i now use), firmly sprung
slick-shod duallie which served me well for a couple of years of
bitumen-commuting. Some wasted effort no doubt, but not as much as it
could have been.

Something like this, you reckon? :-)

http://www.giant-bicycle.com/au/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2005&model=9866

(There's one for sale used here in Perth :-)

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

"LotteBum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My personal opinion is that if you ride a mountain bike with suspension
on the road and it looks like you never ride it off road, then you're a
poonce.

If you're worried about bumps, then get a hybrid or something like
that. If you want to ride in the bush, then a $700 bike will never cut
it anyway, regardless of how much movement the fork is capable of.
Oh... and a $700 bike with suspension is a piece of sh!t. You'd get an
alright hybrid for that sort of money.

Bollocks. A $700 mtb will do way more than most people need in the bush. My
first suspended mtb cost $1100 way back in mumblety four. 1" of low quality
travel forks, skinny tyres, canti brakes. That bike did many, many hours off
road, and I loved it. My wife's new mtb retails around $700, and is a far
better bike than my old one ever was. Her bike has more suspension (3"😉, and
while it's not great, it's better quality (not just an cylindrical block of
elastomer ), a light alloy frame, fatter tyres and Shimano disc brakes. I
was amazed at what you can get for the money now.

I'd agreee that this bike (Giant Rincon) isn't a top level mtb, and if she
really gets into off roading, she'll grow out of it, as I grew out of mine.
But she's never going to race, do jumps, hammer singletrack, or get d00dish.
To say this $700 bike "will never cut it" in the bush is bollocks. Maybe it
wouldn't cut it with you or I riding, but that's not the point. ;^) Many
people only ride recreationally, and fairly gently. These bikes will cope.

You should have seen what the others in last week's newbie ride were riding.
Even a $100 Woolies bike coped (flattish firetrail), and even I wouldn't say
they'd cut it in the bush. IMNSHO, you start getting reasonable mtbs around
$500 (after negotiation with your LBS).

Tony F
http://members.iinet.net.au/~fathers/faulc_pt.htm

quote='M i c C u l l e n'On Tue said:

When I commuted on a dual suspension bike (it was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all I had at the time) I'll admit it was overkill, but geez, was it
cushy and smooth...

And hard work :-)

Funnily enough, it wasn't really all that much harder! It was a fairly
lightweight (no heavier than my old commuter i now use), firmly sprung
slick-shod duallie which served me well for a couple of years of
bitumen-commuting. Some wasted effort no doubt, but not as much as it
could have been.

Something like this, you reckon? :-)

http://www.giant-bicycle.com/au/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2005&model=9866

(There's one for sale used here in Perth :-)

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)[/QUOTE]

he he he... that's a bit more extreme than what i was thinking and what i rode! way more suspension and weight/beefiness than you need there, unless your commute includes stretches of technical downhill!

Although if you stumble across something second hand XC-ish with about 3 inches or so of travel then by all means give it a test-ride... you may love the ride it gives you, and with some slicks, lighter wheels, and tuned suspension it could be just the beez-kneez... May be a bit slower for sure, but life's not *always* a race is it? 🙂

Eddie(poonce)c

tony f said:

"LotteBum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My personal opinion is that if you ride a mountain bike with suspension
on the road and it looks like you never ride it off road, then you're a
poonce.

If you're worried about bumps, then get a hybrid or something like
that. If you want to ride in the bush, then a $700 bike will never cut
it anyway, regardless of how much movement the fork is capable of.
Oh... and a $700 bike with suspension is a piece of sh!t. You'd get an
alright hybrid for that sort of money.

Bollocks. A $700 mtb will do way more than most people need in the bush. My
first suspended mtb cost $1100 way back in mumblety four. 1" of low quality
travel forks, skinny tyres, canti brakes. That bike did many, many hours off
road, and I loved it. My wife's new mtb retails around $700, and is a far
better bike than my old one ever was. Her bike has more suspension (3"😉, and
while it's not great, it's better quality (not just an cylindrical block of
elastomer ), a light alloy frame, fatter tyres and Shimano disc brakes. I
was amazed at what you can get for the money now.

I'd agreee that this bike (Giant Rincon) isn't a top level mtb, and if she
really gets into off roading, she'll grow out of it, as I grew out of mine.
But she's never going to race, do jumps, hammer singletrack, or get d00dish.
To say this $700 bike "will never cut it" in the bush is bollocks. Maybe it
wouldn't cut it with you or I riding, but that's not the point. ;^) Many
people only ride recreationally, and fairly gently. These bikes will cope.

You should have seen what the others in last week's newbie ride were riding.
Even a $100 Woolies bike coped (flattish firetrail), and even I wouldn't say
they'd cut it in the bush. IMNSHO, you start getting reasonable mtbs around
$500 (after negotiation with your LBS).

Tony F
http://members.iinet.net.au/~fathers/faulc_pt.htm

Or what he meant to say. A < $700 Duel suspension Mtb will be a waste
of money.

eddiec said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When I commuted on a dual suspension bike (it was
>> all I had at the time) I'll admit it was overkill, but geez, was

it

Quoted message said:

>> cushy and smooth...
>
> And hard work :-)

Funnily enough, it wasn't really all that much harder! It was a

fairly

Quoted message said:

lightweight (no heavier than my old commuter i now use), firmly

sprung

Quoted message said:

slick-shod duallie which served me well for a couple of years of
bitumen-commuting. Some wasted effort no doubt, but not as much as

it

Quoted message said:

could have been.

Something like this, you reckon? :-)

http://tinyurl.com/a4ull

(There's one for sale used here in Perth :-)

Quoted message said:

he he he... that's a bit more extreme than what i was thinking and what
i rode! way more suspension and weight/beefiness than you need there,
unless your commute includes stretches of technical downhill!

Flinders St is a TOUGH ride, man :-)

OK, I admit I was kidding a bit :-)

Quoted message said:

Although if you stumble across something second hand XC-ish with about
3 inches or so of travel then by all means give it a test-ride... you
may love the ride it gives you, and with some slicks, lighter wheels,
and tuned suspension it could be just the beez-kneez... May be a bit
slower for sure, but life's not *always* a race is it? 🙂

I'm doing it for the exercise, not the speed.

Quoted message said:

Eddie(poonce)c

Welcome to the club :-)

--

cheers, mic (yes, the email address works)

LotteBum said:

My personal opinion is that if you ride a mountain bike with suspension
on the road and it looks like you never ride it off road, then you're a
poonce.

There're cheap.

And every now and then the suspension comes in handy when you come
round the corner and find the Water Board has dug up a main and
forgotten to put the road back. I need to have another go at truing
the back wheel though.

dewatf.