Frankenbike gearing dilemma

dbrower said:

For my 50th birthday, I've concluded I need a lower low than I know
have. The Frankenbike is currently a Trek 5200 with a 50/34 front,
campy 10 sp brifters, and shimano derailleurs with alternate cable
attachment, and a 12-27 9 speedAll things considered, I think a 13-30
or 13-34 would meet my needs better.

I'm not a snob, and I'm a cheap [censored], so putting on MTB components
is fine with me,
and probably necessary for the alternate cluster. I don't know what
to do about the
rear derailer and the shifter combination, though.

Anybody got any ideas or suggestions?

IMO, a triple is your best option.

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure I'm keen to turn it into a triple, though I suppose that's
an option -- that will
take new BB

Probably

Quoted message said:

crank

Yes. Look at this from Sugino:

http://tinyurl.com/yngpd2

This uses the same 110mm BCD as your compact double. So, take your
existing 50T ring, and put it on the Sugino. Buy a new 110mm BCD middle
ring in the 38-42T range and use the 26T inner already on the Sugino.

Quoted message said:

and front DR.

Maybe, maybe not. Try your existing FD and see how it goes.

This conversion will give you really low gears when you need them. The
Sugino XD300 is less expensive than the XD500 and XD600 because it uses
steel outer and middle rings, but that isn't an issue in this case. The
steel 26T inner is fine, IMO.

In article <[email hidden]>,

dbrower said:

For my 50th birthday, I've concluded I need a lower low than I know
have. The Frankenbike is currently a Trek 5200 with a 50/34 front,
campy 10 sp brifters, and shimano derailleurs with alternate cable
attachment, and a 12-27 9 speedAll things considered, I think a 13-30
or 13-34 would meet my needs better.

I'm not a snob, and I'm a cheap [censored], so putting on MTB components
is fine with me, and probably necessary for the alternate cluster.
I don't know what to do about the rear derailer and the shifter
combination, though.

Anybody got any ideas or suggestions?

What hubs are you using? If Campy then your cassette choices are highly
limited. If Shimano, then you've got a few options. For examples:

http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

dbrower said:

For my 50th birthday, I've concluded I need a lower low than I know
have. The Frankenbike is currently a Trek 5200 with a 50/34 front,
campy 10 sp brifters, and shimano derailleurs with alternate cable
attachment, and a 12-27 9 speedAll things considered, I think a 13-30
or 13-34 would meet my needs better.

I'm not a snob, and I'm a cheap [censored], so putting on MTB components
is fine with me,
and probably necessary for the alternate cluster. I don't know what
to do about the
rear derailer and the shifter combination, though.

Anybody got any ideas or suggestions?

I think if you aren't happy on a [50,34]x12-27, then a triple is
probably the best long term solution, but in the short term you
can easily try a 13-30 with your current setup. All you need is
the 13t top cog and a 30t cog. About $30 tops. If you want to
experiment with gears, buy an HG-70 11-34 mtb cassette and a
13-23 HG-70 road cassette. Mix and match until you get the
gearing that you like.

_ Beyond 30t you'll want to invest in a campy Veloce triple
rear derailler. It will handle up to 34t just fine and you won't
need the funny cable routing any more.

_ Booker C. Bense

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dbrower said:

For my 50th birthday, I've concluded I need a lower low than I know
have. The Frankenbike is currently a Trek 5200 with a 50/34 front,
campy 10 sp brifters, and shimano derailleurs with alternate cable
attachment, and a 12-27 9 speedAll things considered, I think a 13-30
or 13-34 would meet my needs better.

I'm not a snob, and I'm a cheap [censored], so putting on MTB components
is fine with me,
and probably necessary for the alternate cluster. I don't know what
to do about the
rear derailer and the shifter combination, though.

Anybody got any ideas or suggestions?

I'm not sure I'm keen to turn it into a triple, though I suppose that's
an option -- that will
take new BB, crank and front DR.

thanks,
-dB

Campag long cage RD( long like shimano MTB long cage RD), then any of a
number of shimano
9s MTB cogsets, like a , 11-28, 11-32 or even a 11-34.

dbrower said:

For my 50th birthday, I've concluded I need a lower low than I know
have. The Frankenbike is currently a Trek 5200 with a 50/34 front,
campy 10 sp brifters, and shimano derailleurs with alternate cable
attachment, and a 12-27 9 speedAll things considered, I think a 13-30
or 13-34 would meet my needs better.

I'm not a snob, and I'm a cheap [censored], so putting on MTB components
is fine with me,
and probably necessary for the alternate cluster. I don't know what
to do about the
rear derailer and the shifter combination, though.

Anybody got any ideas or suggestions?

Changing the cassette is a good place to start. One thing to consider
is that your derailleur has a maximum size cog that it can accommodate.
(I believe that's why the "Campagnolo speaker" suggested a long-cage
design.) Derailleurs intended for road use don't usually accommodate 34
teeth. You don't mention the model, but your bike probably has an
Ultegra rear derailleur of some type (the 2004 model came with one).
That part is rated for 27T max. I use an Ultegra of similar vintage
with 28T, but I doubt it would go much beyond that. You can try your
existing derailleur, and if it doesn't work, get one designed for that
size cog.

Thanks everybody, good suggestions.

To clarify, I have a shimano hub (gives some cassette freedom), and
it's a vintage '99 ultegra RD. It's probably pushing it's capacity,
though The Book of Sheldon suggests it might work with larger cogs than
the rated 27. I'll guess a 30 is probably the limit.

Should I want larger cogs, I'd need a longer cage RD.

* One poster suggested using a Veloce, but I don't know if the spacing
for the cassette will work right for that.

* I'm guessing that the alternate cable trick to use my chorus shifter
would work with a shimano mountain RD, but am not sure.

* Others have suggested just going triple, but (a) I'm happy with the
front shifting now; (b) I'm pretty sure I'll pick the wrong axle
length, whichever (113 or 118) I suspect is right. (c) it seems more
fiddly than changing cassettte and RD.

It appears the first thing to try is a 30 tooth cog on the cassette, to
see if that is enough, and if it works with the existing RD. (May also
require a new chain, depending on how short the current one is.)

Second step is possibly 34T cog and and a new RD.

Independant of either, changing the 12 to a 13 may be worthwhile to
narrow the spread, and when I go look to be sure, definately if it's an
11. My feeling is that anytime I could push a 50x11, I'm going
downhill and recovering, so I'm only pedaling to keep the legs moving,
not for propulsion.

thanks,
-dB

dbrower said:

* One poster suggested using a Veloce, but I don't know if the spacing
for the cassette will work right for that.

* I'm guessing that the alternate cable trick to use my chorus shifter
would work with a shimano mountain RD, but am not sure.

* Others have suggested just going triple, but (a) I'm happy with the
front shifting now; (b) I'm pretty sure I'll pick the wrong axle
length, whichever (113 or 118) I suspect is right. (c) it seems more
fiddly than changing cassettte and RD.

It appears the first thing to try is a 30 tooth cog on the cassette, to
see if that is enough, and if it works with the existing RD. (May also
require a new chain, depending on how short the current one is.)

Second step is possibly 34T cog and and a new RD.

Independant of either, changing the 12 to a 13 may be worthwhile to
narrow the spread, and when I go look to be sure, definately if it's an
11. My feeling is that anytime I could push a 50x11, I'm going
downhill and recovering, so I'm only pedaling to keep the legs moving,
not for propulsion.

Your plan sounds good to me. A few points:
- You can get the Shiftmate product to shift your Shimano ATB rear
derailleur with your Campy shifter, if for some reason the alternative
cable mount trick doesn't work.
- Besides your stated reasons for not using a triple, it's also a more
expensive change
- I have a cassette on one of my road bikes that has a
13-14-15-17-20-23-26-30-34, tightly spaced cogs on one end and a wide
range on the other. I took an 11-34 and 13-23 and combined them. (Two
cassettes plus an XT rder is still cheaper than going to a triple).

Good luck,
Tom

dbrower said:

Thanks everybody, good suggestions.

To clarify, I have a shimano hub (gives some cassette freedom), and
it's a vintage '99 ultegra RD. It's probably pushing it's capacity,
though The Book of Sheldon suggests it might work with larger cogs than
the rated 27. I'll guess a 30 is probably the limit.

Your RD will work with a 30T cog. Just use the B-tension screw to clear
the cog.

Quoted message said:

Should I want larger cogs, I'd need a longer cage RD.

* One poster suggested using a Veloce, but I don't know if the spacing
for the cassette will work right for that.

* I'm guessing that the alternate cable trick to use my chorus shifter
would work with a shimano mountain RD, but am not sure.

All Shimano indexed RDs (except the old D-A RD-7400/01/02) use the same
cable pull.

Quoted message said:

* Others have suggested just going triple, but (a) I'm happy with the
front shifting now;

With Ergo, the front shifting on a triple is just fine.

Quoted message said:

(b) I'm pretty sure I'll pick the wrong axle
length, whichever (113 or 118) I suspect is right.

2.5 mm (on one side) either way is not a big deal. Is your current BB
square taper or Octalink? If square taper, use it as a starting point
and check the chainline.

Quoted message said:

(c) it seems more
fiddly than changing cassettte and RD.

If this is a DIY project, and you lack the crank puller and BB tools,
that's true.

OTOH, going to a triple will give you really low gears, the ability to
use a cassette with nice, small steps and a nice shifting pattern;
you'll be in the middle ring most of the time, with 2-4 low gears on
the inner ring and 2-3 higher gears on the outer.

Quoted message said:

It appears the first thing to try is a 30 tooth cog on the cassette, to
see if that is enough, and if it works with the existing RD. (May also
require a new chain, depending on how short the current one is.)

Second step is possibly 34T cog and and a new RD.

Independant of either, changing the 12 to a 13 may be worthwhile to
narrow the spread, and when I go look to be sure, definately if it's an
11. My feeling is that anytime I could push a 50x11, I'm going
downhill and recovering, so I'm only pedaling to keep the legs moving,
not for propulsion.

thanks,
-dB

In article
<[email hidden]>
,

dbrower said:

For my 50th birthday, I've concluded I need a lower low than I know
have. The Frankenbike is currently a Trek 5200 with a 50/34 front,
campy 10 sp brifters, and shimano derailleurs with alternate cable
attachment, and a 12-27 9 speedAll things considered, I think a 13-30
or 13-34 would meet my needs better.

I'm not a snob, and I'm a cheap [censored], so putting on MTB components
is fine with me,
and probably necessary for the alternate cluster. I don't know what
to do about the
rear derailer and the shifter combination, though.

Anybody got any ideas or suggestions?

I'm not sure I'm keen to turn it into a triple, though I suppose that's
an option -- that will
take new BB, crank and front DR.

Since you want to make the gearing easier on you,
consider the triple and a straight block cassette.
26-38-50 and 13-23. Closer gears really do make things
easier. You can even put on a 24 tooth chain wheel.

--
Michael Press

dbrower said:

Thanks everybody, good suggestions.

To clarify, I have a shimano hub (gives some cassette freedom), and
it's a vintage '99 ultegra RD. It's probably pushing it's capacity,
though The Book of Sheldon suggests it might work with larger cogs than
the rated 27. I'll guess a 30 is probably the limit.

Should I want larger cogs, I'd need a longer cage RD.

* One poster suggested using a Veloce, but I don't know if the spacing
for the cassette will work right for that.

It will, long cage, works with any ERGO and shimano 9s cogsets.

Quoted message said:

* I'm guessing that the alternate cable trick to use my chorus shifter
would work with a shimano mountain RD, but am not sure.

* Others have suggested just going triple, but (a) I'm happy with the
front shifting now; (b) I'm pretty sure I'll pick the wrong axle
length, whichever (113 or 118) I suspect is right. (c) it seems more
fiddly than changing cassettte and RD.

It appears the first thing to try is a 30 tooth cog on the cassette, to
see if that is enough, and if it works with the existing RD. (May also
require a new chain, depending on how short the current one is.)

Second step is possibly 34T cog and and a new RD.

Independant of either, changing the 12 to a 13 may be worthwhile to
narrow the spread, and when I go look to be sure, definately if it's an
11. My feeling is that anytime I could push a 50x11, I'm going
downhill and recovering, so I'm only pedaling to keep the legs moving,
not for propulsion.

thanks,
-dB

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>
,

dbrower said:

For my 50th birthday, I've concluded I need a lower low than I know
have. The Frankenbike is currently a Trek 5200 with a 50/34 front,
campy 10 sp brifters, and shimano derailleurs with alternate cable
attachment, and a 12-27 9 speedAll things considered, I think a 13-30
or 13-34 would meet my needs better.

I'm not a snob, and I'm a cheap [censored], so putting on MTB components
is fine with me,
and probably necessary for the alternate cluster. I don't know what
to do about the
rear derailer and the shifter combination, though.

Anybody got any ideas or suggestions?

I'm not sure I'm keen to turn it into a triple, though I suppose that's
an option -- that will
take new BB, crank and front DR.

Since you want to make the gearing easier on you,
consider the triple and a straight block cassette.
26-38-50 and 13-23. Closer gears really do make things
easier. You can even put on a 24 tooth chain wheel.

Agree that closer gearing in back is more pleasant, but a 26 x 23 is
the same low gear as a 34 x 30. So the OP could get that just by
swapping his existing 27T cog for a 30T.

OTOH, if he kept his existing 12-27 (or something like a 13-26), he'll
have pretty close gearing and really low gears.

dbrower said:

For my 50th birthday, I've concluded I need a lower low than I know
have. The Frankenbike is currently a Trek 5200 with a 50/34 front,
campy 10 sp brifters, and shimano derailleurs with alternate cable
attachment, and a 12-27 9 speedAll things considered, I think a 13-30
or 13-34 would meet my needs better.

I'm not a snob, and I'm a cheap [censored], so putting on MTB components
is fine with me,
and probably necessary for the alternate cluster. I don't know what
to do about the
rear derailer and the shifter combination, though.

Anybody got any ideas or suggestions?

I'm not sure I'm keen to turn it into a triple, though I suppose that's
an option -- that will
take new BB, crank and front DR.

Triple cranks are available pretty cheap on ebay. I bought a nice
Veloce recently, at a mid-scrounger price. Seems to sit OK on a Record
111 BB I had around, in an old Tommasini road frame. Other Campy BB's
111, 115, are available cheap. Front der? You might be able to get by
with what you have for a front shifter, according to some testimony;
for my ongoing Thriple project, I found a Racing T (ebay) front and a
Veloce medium cage rear, all at least reasonable. I went for
"triple-compatible" derailleurs in the interest of safety because this
bike is to replace the Turkey Bike (Specialized Expo "comfort"😉 as the
front end of the trailer bike my 1rst-grader and I use to get home from
school. Possible overkill on the derailleurs in the interest of not
dropping the chain while the Cell Phone Express whizzes by inches from
our ears.

I've used and enjoyed a triple with close-ratio cogset, FWIW. It's a
way to have the road gears you're used to (or very close), plus adding
a twiddler uphill ratio or two. Mine was old Nuovo Record stuff; I'm
really looking forward to doing this with Ergo and esp. that modern
triple front der. --D-y

I've decided to try a deore long cage rear with a 13-34 that I'll build
up from a new 11-34 and parts I have lying in the bin. I can do this
for $50, meeting my cheap-[censored] criteria. It'll give me a 34x34
ratio, which isn't bad. Having grown up on 5 and 6 speed freewheels,
the jumps won't seem so bad to me.

If that isn't enough, then I'll think about the triple, which will
probably cost another $75 or $100.

I'm going this route because (a) I really like the shifting of the
current front; (b) I already invested in the compact front, and
changing it out would be admitting a mistake, which won't do unless
absolutely necessary; (c) I've never been all that happy with the
shifting of the 5 other bikes with triples that are in the garage.

thanks all!

-dB

In article <[email hidden]>,

dbrower said:

I've decided to try a deore long cage rear with a 13-34 that I'll
build up from a new 11-34 and parts I have lying in the bin. I can
do this for $50, meeting my cheap-[censored] criteria. It'll give me a
34x34 ratio, which isn't bad. Having grown up on 5 and 6 speed
freewheels, the jumps won't seem so bad to me.

If that isn't enough, then I'll think about the triple, which will
probably cost another $75 or $100.

I'm going this route because (a) I really like the shifting of the
current front; (b) I already invested in the compact front, and
changing it out would be admitting a mistake, which won't do unless
absolutely necessary; (c) I've never been all that happy with the
shifting of the 5 other bikes with triples that are in the garage.

Well, that's the same route that I would take to achieve the same goal.
Good luck with it!

One option is to convert your present double crankset to a triple with
one of these: http://store.interlocracing.com/cotrch.html

Jacques said:

One option is to convert your present double crankset to a triple with
one of these: http://store.interlocracing.com/cotrch.html

Marketing BS run amok. Sixty bucks for a middle ring that lets you make
amends for a bad idea! Just buy a Sugino XD [censored] in the first place.