First 'get off my road and onto your track' moment.



On 28 May, 13:14, "The other view point, there is one you know..."
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On 28 May, 16:53, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>


>
> >You cannot safely mix vehicles
> > travelling at 40Km/h with toddlers toddling at 2Km/h,

>
> So you see how it is from a car drivers point of view...



No I don't. Cyclists at 40Km/h are safer on a road with 50-60Km/h
traffic than a pavement with 5Kmh pedestrians. In a 30mph zone cars
travel roughly twice the speed of bikes. On a pavement bikes travel 5
or 10 times the speed of peds.

Iain
 
Ekul Namsob <[email protected]> wrote:

> naked_draughtsman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > from times as a long distance runner on
> > > country roads without paths, I began to remember how abruptly and late
> > > some mortorists used to manoeuver around us; it was as if they saw us
> > > only in the last ten metres.

> >
> > I've only noticed recently (although it's probably nothing new) that when
> > cars pass me, they are still moving out for 10-20 m after they have
> > completely passed me which seems to suggest they can't judge the
> > distance/speed properly. I always thought you moved out, passed parallel to
> > the obstruction (or cyclist) then moved back in.

>
> I only pull back in when I have visual confirmation that I have passed.
> That probably means that I pull out for a lot longer than necessary.
>
> Cheers,
> Luke


aol, particuly as on a bike your rear visabilty is ****, ie have to
turn. one reason i can understand headphones as i use my hearing, to
tell what is behind and what it's doing. no matter how fast you turn you
are travelling at that point blind. compared to a car which should have
a fairly good coverage with mirrors.

roger
 
On Mon, 28 May 2007 23:37:54 +0100, [email protected] (Roger
Merriman) wrote:

>aol, particuly as on a bike your rear visabilty is ****, ie have to
>turn. one reason i can understand headphones as i use my hearing, to
>tell what is behind and what it's doing. no matter how fast you turn you
>are travelling at that point blind. compared to a car which should have
>a fairly good coverage with mirrors.


The usual teaching for cars when I was learning was that you shouldn't
pull in until the object being overtaken is in your interior rear view
mirror, which is normally when you are *well* past it. Judging
distance via the side mirrors is not always as easy.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.
 
On 28 May 2007 13:14:45 -0700, The other view point, there is one you
know... wrote:

>
> What license do you have to ride on the road?


As a cyclist, none.

> What test have you undertake to demonstrate you understand the rules
> of the road?
>


As a cyclist, none.

And that's as it should be.

Cyclists pose essentially no danger to other users of the highways.

Drivers of motorcars, on the other hand, do; and the fact that they must
take tests, pay fees, and apply for permission to use the highways reflects
this - although not in proportion, as shown by the apalling number of
people maimed and killed by motorists each year.
 
In article <[email protected]>, naked_draughtsman
[email protected] says...
>
> "Rob Morley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, naked_draughtsman
> > [email protected] says...
> >
> >> I've only noticed recently (although it's probably nothing new) that when
> >> cars pass me, they are still moving out for 10-20 m after they have
> >> completely passed me which seems to suggest they can't judge the
> >> distance/speed properly.

> >
> > You seem to be complaining that motorists are giving you plenty of room.

>
> They were ultimately driving on the other side of the road which is a decent
> amount of space to give a cyclist but as they actually passed me it was only
> half that, maybe less.
>

Ah, ISWYM. Rather than moving out, passing, then moving in, they turn
slightly to miss you then carry on in a straight line. I've noticed
that some drivers don't seem to be able to steer properly, they just
veer as if making a gentle lane change on a multi-lane carriageway.
This is particularly noticeable on one road I often use that has the
sort of semi-chicanes where you have to give way to traffic coming in
the opposite direction - drivers often seem incapable of returning
quickly to their side of the road, even in the face of oncoming traffic.
 
Neil Williams <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 28 May 2007 23:37:54 +0100, [email protected] (Roger
> Merriman) wrote:
>
> >aol, particuly as on a bike your rear visabilty is ****, ie have to
> >turn. one reason i can understand headphones as i use my hearing, to
> >tell what is behind and what it's doing. no matter how fast you turn you
> >are travelling at that point blind. compared to a car which should have
> >a fairly good coverage with mirrors.

>
> The usual teaching for cars when I was learning was that you shouldn't
> pull in until the object being overtaken is in your interior rear view
> mirror, which is normally when you are *well* past it. Judging
> distance via the side mirrors is not always as easy.


Quite. The wing mirrors on my car show me anything between almost right
next to me and a hundred yards behind.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush
 
In article <[email protected]>, Rob Morley wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, naked_draughtsman
>> "Rob Morley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > In article <[email protected]>, naked_draughtsman
>> > [email protected] says...
>> >
>> >> I've only noticed recently (although it's probably nothing new) that when
>> >> cars pass me, they are still moving out for 10-20 m after they have
>> >> completely passed me which seems to suggest they can't judge the
>> >> distance/speed properly.
>> >
>> > You seem to be complaining that motorists are giving you plenty of room.

>>
>> They were ultimately driving on the other side of the road which is a decent
>> amount of space to give a cyclist but as they actually passed me it was only
>> half that, maybe less.
>>

>Ah, ISWYM. Rather than moving out, passing, then moving in, they turn
>slightly to miss you then carry on in a straight line.


That happens quite often to me too. Sometimes the line of the road and
visibility makes it a reasonable thing to do, but mostly it just looks
like incompetence. Or an attempt to show "see, I'm leaving you _lots_
of room, I don't know why cyclists complain"....
 
in message <[email protected]>, The
other view point, there is one you know...
('[email protected]') wrote:

> On 28 May, 16:53, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>> in message <[email protected]>, The
>> other view point, there is one you know...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ('[email protected]') wrote:
>> >> All very scary for at least two reasons: (i) if assholes like that
>> >> are strongly of the opinion "actually, it's against the law, you
>> >> know",
>> >> then there will be some of them who will deliberately and recklessly
>> >> disregard cyclists; (ii) from times as a long distance runner on
>> >> country roads without paths, I began to remember how abruptly and
>> >> late some mortorists used to manoeuver around us; it was as if they
>> >> saw us only in the last ten metres. Moreover, there is the shock
>> >> expressed by
>> >> friends at the danger of it, when they hear that I cycle on the road.

>>
>> >> Best regards,

>>
>> > Any point in writing to the paper, MP council, about the state of the
>> > cycle path?

>>
>> > One of those nice little motorised sweepers could whizz along on a
>> > regular bases.

>>
>> I think that is very much the wrong answer. If the cycle paths were
>> regularly swept (at the council-tax payer's expense), the drivers would
>> say 'get off my road and onto that path I'm paying to have swept for
>> you'. Sweeping the path doesn't solve the problems of or for
>> pedestrians, cross paths, unsighted junctions and so on. You cannot
>> safely mix vehicles travelling at 40Km/h with toddlers toddling at
>> 2Km/h, and dog walkers who have not the least clue how to control their
>> dogs.
>>
>> What we need to do is educate drivers to be aware of the law - it's our
>> road, which they use only be licence, and only for as long as they
>> continue to behave themselves.
>>
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

>
>
> And thats the rub, you don't think it safe to use the cyle paths
>>You cannot safely mix vehicles
>> travelling at 40Km/h with toddlers toddling at 2Km/h,

>
> So you see how it is from a car drivers point of view...


Of course I do. I /am/ a car driver. As a car driver I know I share the
road with horses, agricultural vehicles, construction plant, and bicycles.
Of these, bicycles take up the least room, are fastest, and move in the
most predictable way. Furthermore, when I'm cycling on the road, the
fastest legal vehicles are doing four times my speed. If I were on a
footpath, I would be doing twenty times the speed of legitimate users of
that path. Surely even you can see there's a bit of a difference between
four times and twenty times.

> What license do you have to ride on the road?


You don't need a licence to ride a bicycle on the road, you have a legal
right to ride a bicycle on the road. You don't have a legal right to use a
motor vehicle on the road, which is why you have to apply for a licence.

> What test have you undertake to demonstrate you understand the rules
> of the road?


You don't have to take a test to ride a bicycle on the road, because you
have a legal right to do it. You don't have a legal right to use a motor
vehicle on the road, which is why you have to take a test.

> exactly...see who many motorists are a bit peeved with cyclists...


In that case they ought to go and sit their driving test again, or better
still turn in their driving licence and admit they aren't competent to
hold one.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
,/| _.--''^``-...___.._.,;
/, \'. _-' ,--,,,--'''
{ \ `_-'' ' /
`;;' ; ; ;
._..--'' ._,,, _..' .;.'
(,_....----''' (,..--''
 
In article <[email protected]>, Alan Braggins
[email protected] says...

> That happens quite often to me too. Sometimes the line of the road and
> visibility makes it a reasonable thing to do, but mostly it just looks
> like incompetence. Or an attempt to show "see, I'm leaving you _lots_
> of room, I don't know why cyclists complain"....
>

I suppose that if they clip you and you fall off then at least you have
a bit more space to fall into :-\
 

>
> So you see how it is from a car drivers point of view...
>
> What license do you have to ride on the road?
> What test have you undertake to demonstrate you understand the rules
> of the road?
>
> exactly...see who many motorists are a bit peeved with cyclists...
>


I am a motorist. I do not get peeved with cyclists for being on the road. I
get peeved at inconsiderate road users and I see far, far more motorists
being idiots on the road than I do cyclists being idiots. As an example,
where I live I see far, far more motorists jumping red lights than cyclists
jumping red lights in local towns and the nearest city.
 
On 28 May 2007 06:36:47 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>On Saturday I had my first experience of a motorist indicating (by
>vigorous gesturing) that I should leave his road and use a nearby
>cycle track
>Jon C.


Jon, the CTC is asking for people with just that sort of experience to
report it to them, see:

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5861

for the email address to use.

- Mike
 
wafflycat said the following on 29/05/2007 11:15:

> an example, where I live I see far, far more motorists jumping red
> lights than cyclists jumping red lights in local towns and the nearest
> city.


The same happens where I live, in Weston-super-Mare. However, we're not
allowed to say this because it is an inconvenient truth that the media
would prefer to ignore!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/
 
Paul Boyd wrote on 29/05/2007 12:38 +0100:
> wafflycat said the following on 29/05/2007 11:15:
>
>> an example, where I live I see far, far more motorists jumping red
>> lights than cyclists jumping red lights in local towns and the nearest
>> city.

>
> The same happens where I live, in Weston-super-Mare. However, we're not
> allowed to say this because it is an inconvenient truth that the media
> would prefer to ignore!
>


That's because most of the medya drive round in cars and can't stand
those pesky cyclists impeding their progress towards filling another
column inch in tomorrow's fish and chip wrapper. Cynical, moi?

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
 
The other view point, there is one you know... twisted the electrons to say:
> What license do you have to ride on the road?
> What test have you undertake to demonstrate you understand the rules
> of the road?


Doesn't the above just read a lot like TrollB? Presumably registration
plates, MOTs and compulsory insruance will be brought up soon?
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
Alistair Gunn wrote:
> The other view point, there is one you know... twisted the electrons to say:
>> What license do you have to ride on the road?
>> What test have you undertake to demonstrate you understand the rules
>> of the road?

>
> Doesn't the above just read a lot like [Matt B]? Presumably registration
> plates, MOTs and compulsory insruance will be brought up soon?


You know me so well, remind us all just what my views are on driving
tests, insurance, number plates, MOTs, VED, and the associated special
laws created for motorised road users.

--
Matt B
 
<Mike Murphy> wrote in message > Jon, the CTC is asking for people with just
that sort of experience to
> report it to them, see:
>
> http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5861
>
> for the email address to use.
>
> - Mike



Mike,

I've tried to personally report just one such event to
[email protected]

However they have some sort of spamtrap. This refuses my mail despite me
having plenty of (ooh er) protection.

To be removed from this blacklist I need to go through a lengthy process.
Why should I?

Better things to do.

John
www.calder-clarion.co.uk
 
Neil Williams <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 28 May 2007 23:37:54 +0100, [email protected] (Roger
> Merriman) wrote:
>
> >aol, particuly as on a bike your rear visabilty is ****, ie have to
> >turn. one reason i can understand headphones as i use my hearing, to
> >tell what is behind and what it's doing. no matter how fast you turn you
> >are travelling at that point blind. compared to a car which should have
> >a fairly good coverage with mirrors.

>
> The usual teaching for cars when I was learning was that you shouldn't
> pull in until the object being overtaken is in your interior rear view
> mirror, which is normally when you are *well* past it. Judging
> distance via the side mirrors is not always as easy.
>
> Neil


yes, that is the way i've done it.

roger
 
Paul Boyd <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote:

> wafflycat said the following on 29/05/2007 11:15:
>
> > an example, where I live I see far, far more motorists jumping red
> > lights than cyclists jumping red lights in local towns and the nearest
> > city.

>
> The same happens where I live, in Weston-super-Mare. However, we're not
> allowed to say this because it is an inconvenient truth that the media
> would prefer to ignore!


jumpers or chancers? i see people who don't stop as it turns red, mostly
cars. what the bike jumpers tend to do is roll though well after it's
turned red, i suspect it's the willfull nature of it, rather than
"sneaking" though.

roger
 
In article <1hyvlvj.y4w8w81guy1feN%[email protected]>, Roger
Merriman <[email protected]> writes
>jumpers or chancers? i see people who don't stop as it turns red, mostly
>cars. what the bike jumpers tend to do is roll though well after it's
>turned red, i suspect it's the willfull nature of it, rather than
>"sneaking" though.


Many years ago in Liverpool, I found that if you didn't go through a
light that had just turned red, you'd be rear-ended by the guy behind.

The worst offenders appear to be drivers who are not confident,
trundling along a 20mph (5 mph within 100 yards of a turn), who get to a
light several seconds after it has changed to red but continue to
trundle across the junction with no sign of attempting to brake or any
change of speed (maybe it's down to very slow reactions?).

--
John
 
Roger Merriman said the following on 30/05/2007 10:02:

> jumpers or chancers? i see people who don't stop as it turns red, mostly
> cars. what the bike jumpers tend to do is roll though well after it's
> turned red, i suspect it's the willfull nature of it, rather than
> "sneaking" though.


No, there are certain lights here where it is quite common for cars to
continue through on red even after the lights for traffic flow in the
other direction are green (i.e, they've been amber then red for quite
some time), or for cars and buses to just totally ignore red pedestrian
crossing lights. One ped crossing by me is so bad that I reckon 8 or 9
times out of 10 that I use it the red light will be jumped. The
council's response to my compliant was that they have to wait for
several people to be killed before they will think about looking at the
problem. I suppose at least they have now installed barriers to prevent
cars leaving a forecourt by using the ped crossing (Hayers on Locking
Rd, for the locals) - I really have seen someone lean out of a car
window to press the button, and it was that that got me wound up enough
to contact the council.

Anyway, it's not as if there is no warning that the lights are about to
go red because there's a bloody great amber light first, so *anyone* who
goes through a light on red is a jumper. A chancer is someone who goes
through when the amber has been on for a while.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/