First 'get off my road and onto your track' moment.



On Saturday I had my first experience of a motorist indicating (by
vigorous gesturing) that I should leave his road and use a nearby
cycle
track; the cycle track is not at the side of the road, but in parkland
a few metres away.

We continued the conversation at a nearby traffic lights; he
confirmed
what his gesturing had meant. I suggested that he visit the cycle
track
and see by the amount of glass why I preferred the road; I suppose
I
should have mentioned that it was also bunged with pedestrians of all
ages
and dogs and prams and that I would have to cross paths and all
sorts
of nonesense at the next junction.

He then noted that he had observed that one car had nearly collided
with another because it had had to make a abrupt manoeuvre to avoid
me.

Anyway, as the amber light came on, his parting shot was "actually,
it's against the law, you know".

Scary that, for it seemed to have come as out a well formed idea in
his
head. OTOH, he didn't look like someone who has current road traffic
legislation as his specialist subject or who spends his time reading
this newsgroup.

So where did that opinion come from? Is it something that the Sun or
the Star discuss? Or that assholes talk about in pubs?

>From a recent post by me, you will know that I had figured that cycle

tracks were a purely Northern Ireland phenomenon and that, since
starting to cycle again, I had concluded independently that they were
a
far from good idea.

All very scary for at least two reasons: (i) if assholes like that are
strongly of the opinion "actually, it's against the law, you
know",
then there will be some of them who will deliberately and recklessly
disregard cyclists; (ii) from times as a long distance runner on
country roads without paths, I began to remember how abruptly and late
some mortorists used to manoeuver around us; it was as if they saw us
only in the last ten metres. Moreover, there is the shock expressed
by
friends at the danger of it, when they hear that I cycle on the road.

Best regards,

Jon C.
 
[email protected] wrote:
>
> He then noted that he had observed that one car had nearly collided
> with another because it had had to make a abrupt manoeuvre to avoid
> me.
>


You could have pointed out that driving of that standard would not be
sufficient to pass a driving test.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday I had my first experience of a motorist indicating (by
> vigorous gesturing) that I should leave his road and use a nearby
> cycle


> He then noted that he had observed that one car had nearly collided
> with another because it had had to make a abrupt manoeuvre to avoid
> me.
>
> Anyway, as the amber light came on, his parting shot was "actually,
> it's against the law, you know".


I think some people use that war cry when they believe that they are
right to back up their arrogance. He was probably late for his
appointment, and wanted to take it out on someone.

This sort of thing will only get more frequent and worse with the new
highway code.
IMHO you should write to your MP about this incident, citing the effects
that the new rule 61 will have on ejits like him.

Martin.
 
On 28 May, 14:36, [email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday I had my first experience of a motorist indicating (by
> vigorous gesturing) that I should leave his road and use a nearby
> cycle
> track; the cycle track is not at the side of the road, but in parkland
> a few metres away.
>
> We continued the conversation at a nearby traffic lights; he
> confirmed
> what his gesturing had meant. I suggested that he visit the cycle
> track
> and see by the amount of glass why I preferred the road; I suppose
> I
> should have mentioned that it was also bunged with pedestrians of all
> ages
> and dogs and prams and that I would have to cross paths and all
> sorts
> of nonesense at the next junction.
>
> He then noted that he had observed that one car had nearly collided
> with another because it had had to make a abrupt manoeuvre to avoid
> me.
>
> Anyway, as the amber light came on, his parting shot was "actually,
> it's against the law, you know".
>
> Scary that, for it seemed to have come as out a well formed idea in
> his
> head. OTOH, he didn't look like someone who has current road traffic
> legislation as his specialist subject or who spends his time reading
> this newsgroup.
>
> So where did that opinion come from? Is it something that the Sun or
> the Star discuss? Or that assholes talk about in pubs?
>
> >From a recent post by me, you will know that I had figured that cycle

>
> tracks were a purely Northern Ireland phenomenon and that, since
> starting to cycle again, I had concluded independently that they were
> a
> far from good idea.
>
> All very scary for at least two reasons: (i) if assholes like that are
> strongly of the opinion "actually, it's against the law, you
> know",
> then there will be some of them who will deliberately and recklessly
> disregard cyclists; (ii) from times as a long distance runner on
> country roads without paths, I began to remember how abruptly and late
> some mortorists used to manoeuver around us; it was as if they saw us
> only in the last ten metres. Moreover, there is the shock expressed
> by
> friends at the danger of it, when they hear that I cycle on the road.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jon C.


Any point in writing to the paper, MP council, about the state of the
cycle path?

One of those nice little motorised sweepers could whizz along on a
regular bases.
 
The other view point, there is one you know... wrote on 28/05/2007 15:02
+0100:
>
> Any point in writing to the paper, MP council, about the state of the
> cycle path?
>
> One of those nice little motorised sweepers could whizz along on a
> regular bases.
>


No point, almost all of us here don't want to use them anyway. They
were only installed so some non-cyclist could tick a box on his key
performance indicators - another 100m of useless cycle farcility; tick.
--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
 
On Mon, 28 May 2007 13:58:40 GMT someone who may be Martin Dann
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>IMHO you should write to your MP about this incident, citing the effects
>that the new rule 61 will have on ejits like him.


AOL.

The OP should ask their MP how they think the proposed new rule will
encourage cycling, something officials and just about every
political party claims to want.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> from times as a long distance runner on
> country roads without paths, I began to remember how abruptly and late
> some mortorists used to manoeuver around us; it was as if they saw us
> only in the last ten metres.


I've only noticed recently (although it's probably nothing new) that when
cars pass me, they are still moving out for 10-20 m after they have
completely passed me which seems to suggest they can't judge the
distance/speed properly. I always thought you moved out, passed parallel to
the obstruction (or cyclist) then moved back in.

It was happening a lot this afternoon, especially on the narrow bits of road
with double white lines down the middle...
--
peter

Cheap train tickets database
http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
Visit website if you want to contact me
 
in message <[email protected]>, The
other view point, there is one you know...
('[email protected]') wrote:
>> All very scary for at least two reasons: (i) if assholes like that are
>> strongly of the opinion "actually, it's against the law, you
>> know",
>> then there will be some of them who will deliberately and recklessly
>> disregard cyclists; (ii) from times as a long distance runner on
>> country roads without paths, I began to remember how abruptly and late
>> some mortorists used to manoeuver around us; it was as if they saw us
>> only in the last ten metres. Moreover, there is the shock expressed
>> by
>> friends at the danger of it, when they hear that I cycle on the road.
>>
>> Best regards,

>
> Any point in writing to the paper, MP council, about the state of the
> cycle path?
>
> One of those nice little motorised sweepers could whizz along on a
> regular bases.


I think that is very much the wrong answer. If the cycle paths were
regularly swept (at the council-tax payer's expense), the drivers would
say 'get off my road and onto that path I'm paying to have swept for you'.
Sweeping the path doesn't solve the problems of or for pedestrians, cross
paths, unsighted junctions and so on. You cannot safely mix vehicles
travelling at 40Km/h with toddlers toddling at 2Km/h, and dog walkers who
have not the least clue how to control their dogs.

What we need to do is educate drivers to be aware of the law - it's our
road, which they use only be licence, and only for as long as they
continue to behave themselves.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; This email may contain confidential or otherwise privileged
;; information, though, quite frankly, if you're not the intended
;; recipient and you've got nothing better to do than read other
;; folks' emails then I'm glad to have brightened up your sad little
;; life a tiny bit.
 
In article <[email protected]>, naked_draughtsman
[email protected] says...

> I've only noticed recently (although it's probably nothing new) that when
> cars pass me, they are still moving out for 10-20 m after they have
> completely passed me which seems to suggest they can't judge the
> distance/speed properly.


You seem to be complaining that motorists are giving you plenty of room.
 
Rob Morley wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, naked_draughtsman
> [email protected] says...
>
>> I've only noticed recently (although it's probably nothing new) that when
>> cars pass me, they are still moving out for 10-20 m after they have
>> completely passed me which seems to suggest they can't judge the
>> distance/speed properly.

>
> You seem to be complaining that motorists are giving you plenty of room.


I know that I drive like that - especially if the road is a bit bendy
and there is further traffic behind me. By staying out (assuming that I
have a good sight line ahead) I am not only giving the obstacle I've
gone around plenty of room (using obstacle in a non-derogatory way - it
could be a cyclist, or a parked car, or a skip, or anything else), but
also showing cars behind that an overtake is still possible and safe.

Matt
 
In article <[email protected]>, Matthew Haigh
?@?.? says...
> Rob Morley wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, naked_draughtsman
> > [email protected] says...
> >
> >> I've only noticed recently (although it's probably nothing new) that when
> >> cars pass me, they are still moving out for 10-20 m after they have
> >> completely passed me which seems to suggest they can't judge the
> >> distance/speed properly.

> >
> > You seem to be complaining that motorists are giving you plenty of room.

>
> I know that I drive like that


Me too.

> - especially if the road is a bit bendy
> and there is further traffic behind me. By staying out (assuming that I
> have a good sight line ahead) I am not only giving the obstacle I've
> gone around plenty of room (using obstacle in a non-derogatory way - it
> could be a cyclist, or a parked car, or a skip, or anything else), but
> also showing cars behind that an overtake is still possible and safe.
>

I just stay out until I'm sure I've left enough room, before checking
behind and moving over - otherwise I'd be making more rear observations
than necessary, and I'd rather be looking where I'm going.
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> On Saturday I had my first experience of a motorist indicating (by
> vigorous gesturing) that I should leave his road and use a nearby
> cycle....


Best thing is to pretend you have not noticed at all. He was almost
certainly a Sun/Mail reader with a pea brain from the sound of it!

Cheers adrian www.boliston.co.uk
 
"Matthew Haigh" <?@?.?> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Rob Morley wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, naked_draughtsman
>> [email protected] says...
>>
>>> I've only noticed recently (although it's probably nothing new) that
>>> when
>>> cars pass me, they are still moving out for 10-20 m after they have
>>> completely passed me which seems to suggest they can't judge the
>>> distance/speed properly.

>>
>> You seem to be complaining that motorists are giving you plenty of room.

>
> I know that I drive like that - especially if the road is a bit bendy
> and there is further traffic behind me. By staying out (assuming that I
> have a good sight line ahead) I am not only giving the obstacle I've
> gone around plenty of room (using obstacle in a non-derogatory way - it
> could be a cyclist, or a parked car, or a skip, or anything else), but
> also showing cars behind that an overtake is still possible and safe.


Staying out is arguably blocking thier view of the road so they can't see
that it is clear and still safe to overtake thus if they overtake they are
overtaking blind (depends how much you stay out)

Drivers continuing to drift out after passing the obstace could mean
1) They have started drifting out far too late and only jsut missed your
rear wheel
2) They have failed to compensate for the camber on the other side of the
road
3) Their tyre pressures are all to pot and the car is undriveable
4) They haven't bothered tocheck if they have passed you yet
5) They have temporarily forgotten what country they are driving in
6) They can't judge distances
7) They is a ****
8) There is a left hand corner ahead with good vision, they can see the road
is clear and are taking the path of least resistance
Any others?

> Matt
 
naked_draughtsman <[email protected]> wrote:

> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > from times as a long distance runner on
> > country roads without paths, I began to remember how abruptly and late
> > some mortorists used to manoeuver around us; it was as if they saw us
> > only in the last ten metres.

>
> I've only noticed recently (although it's probably nothing new) that when
> cars pass me, they are still moving out for 10-20 m after they have
> completely passed me which seems to suggest they can't judge the
> distance/speed properly. I always thought you moved out, passed parallel to
> the obstruction (or cyclist) then moved back in.


I only pull back in when I have visual confirmation that I have passed.
That probably means that I pull out for a lot longer than necessary.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush
 
Niall Wallace wrote:
> "Matthew Haigh" <?@?.?> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> Rob Morley wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>, naked_draughtsman
>>> [email protected] says...
>>>
>>>> I've only noticed recently (although it's probably nothing new) that
>>>> when
>>>> cars pass me, they are still moving out for 10-20 m after they have
>>>> completely passed me which seems to suggest they can't judge the
>>>> distance/speed properly.
>>> You seem to be complaining that motorists are giving you plenty of room.

>> I know that I drive like that - especially if the road is a bit bendy
>> and there is further traffic behind me. By staying out (assuming that I
>> have a good sight line ahead) I am not only giving the obstacle I've
>> gone around plenty of room (using obstacle in a non-derogatory way - it
>> could be a cyclist, or a parked car, or a skip, or anything else), but
>> also showing cars behind that an overtake is still possible and safe.

>
> Staying out is arguably blocking thier view of the road so they can't see
> that it is clear and still safe to overtake thus if they overtake they are
> overtaking blind (depends how much you stay out)


Yes, it depends upon me having sight and knowing they won't. If the road
is straight there is no point staying out once the obstacle is visible
in the rear view mirror, I'll tuck in to give the person behind
visibility (and the chance to go around me if he wants). Like everything
driving, there is no hard and fast (whatever I say I usually do somebody
could come up with a circumstance where it would be wrong) - everything
depends upon conditions and awareness.

Matt
 
"Rob Morley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, naked_draughtsman
> [email protected] says...
>
>> I've only noticed recently (although it's probably nothing new) that when
>> cars pass me, they are still moving out for 10-20 m after they have
>> completely passed me which seems to suggest they can't judge the
>> distance/speed properly.

>
> You seem to be complaining that motorists are giving you plenty of room.


They were ultimately driving on the other side of the road which is a decent
amount of space to give a cyclist but as they actually passed me it was only
half that, maybe less.
--
peter

Cheap train tickets database
http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
Visit website if you want to contact me
 
On 28 May, 16:53, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
> in message <[email protected]>, The
> other view point, there is one you know...
>
>
>
>
>
> ('[email protected]') wrote:
> >> All very scary for at least two reasons: (i) if assholes like that are
> >> strongly of the opinion "actually, it's against the law, you
> >> know",
> >> then there will be some of them who will deliberately and recklessly
> >> disregard cyclists; (ii) from times as a long distance runner on
> >> country roads without paths, I began to remember how abruptly and late
> >> some mortorists used to manoeuver around us; it was as if they saw us
> >> only in the last ten metres. Moreover, there is the shock expressed
> >> by
> >> friends at the danger of it, when they hear that I cycle on the road.

>
> >> Best regards,

>
> > Any point in writing to the paper, MP council, about the state of the
> > cycle path?

>
> > One of those nice little motorised sweepers could whizz along on a
> > regular bases.

>
> I think that is very much the wrong answer. If the cycle paths were
> regularly swept (at the council-tax payer's expense), the drivers would
> say 'get off my road and onto that path I'm paying to have swept for you'.
> Sweeping the path doesn't solve the problems of or for pedestrians, cross
> paths, unsighted junctions and so on. You cannot safely mix vehicles
> travelling at 40Km/h with toddlers toddling at 2Km/h, and dog walkers who
> have not the least clue how to control their dogs.
>
> What we need to do is educate drivers to be aware of the law - it's our
> road, which they use only be licence, and only for as long as they
> continue to behave themselves.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -



And thats the rub, you don't think it safe to use the cyle paths
>You cannot safely mix vehicles
> travelling at 40Km/h with toddlers toddling at 2Km/h,


So you see how it is from a car drivers point of view...

What license do you have to ride on the road?
What test have you undertake to demonstrate you understand the rules
of the road?

exactly...see who many motorists are a bit peeved with cyclists...
 
The other view point, there is one you know...
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On 28 May, 16:53, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:


> >You cannot safely mix vehicles
> > travelling at 40Km/h with toddlers toddling at 2Km/h,

>
> So you see how it is from a car drivers point of view...


Non sequitur.

> What license do you have to ride on the road?
> What test have you undertake to demonstrate you understand the rules
> of the road?


Cycling Proficiency.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush
 
The other view point, there is one you know... wrote:
> On 28 May, 16:53, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:


> What license do you have to ride on the road?


What license does a pedestrian need?

> What test have you undertake to demonstrate you understand the rules
> of the road?


But I am not in charge of two tons of steel moving at 70mph.
The test I have to undertake is trying not to get hit by someone who is
in charge of a car. I take that test every time I ride on the road, and
when I have failed, it has been the other persons fault. (Once a car
drove head on into me when I was stationary).

> exactly...see who many motorists are a bit peeved with cyclists...


I think most motorists are happy to share the road, as usual it is a
minority that spoil things.

Martin.
 
The other view point, there is one you know... wrote:
>
> What license do you have to ride on the road?


Nobody needs a license to use public roads.

> What test have you undertake to demonstrate you understand the rules
> of the road?


Nobody needs to undertake a test to use public roads.

>
> exactly...see who many motorists are a bit peeved with cyclists...
>


Yes - their peevishness stems from the fact that they don't understand
the rights of other road users.