fine dining

"Dee Dee" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Due to the air systems, as you know it's pretty hard to have smoking
rooms.

I do know that.

Quoted message said:

At Costco they have designated a space (with a picnic table) at the back
end of the indoor/outdoor space for the smokers to sit. I can't recall if
it's been there in the winter yet, but so far there are plenty of takers
in this heat.

Tho, I think not being able to smoke during working hours near one's work
is a good incentive for a worker to try to quit the habit for at least 8
hours a day. Tough, tho.

Oh, they look just miserable as they stand out there on cigarette
breaks every hour. Where's my violin ...

(laugh) nancy

Thelma Roslyn Lubkin said:

: Bars and casinos; now those are places I would go to often if they just had
: more stringent smoking rules ;-))

We don't have smoke-free legislation for restaurants, but new
bars are opening as smoke-free places anyway, and they seem to
thrive. Many places that are not designated smoke free and
that were heavy with smoke five years ago are now smokeless from
people's social instincts.

A lot of bars and restaurants around here got screwed by smoking
regulations. For a while they were allowed to have a smoking section if it
was separated and ventilated. A lot of places spent a lot of money to
comply with the regulations, and then they came out with a total ban.

They way I figure it is that they should allow smoking and leave it to
customers to patronize the non smoking establishments if they don't like
smoke. My wife, who has never smoked in her life, thinks that is a great
idea.

One time on Usenet said:

Terry said:

Dee Dee, your town sounds pretty much like mine. About fifteen years
ago the referendum came up to allow alcoholic beverages in the town
(soundly defeated that time). In a letter to the editor of the local
paper, a resident opined that we didn't need alcohol to bring nice
restaurants. After all, McDonalds had come to town...

Ouch. That is sad.

Quoted message said:

We now have an Applebees and a few decent locally-owned restaurants,
plus one that probably considers itself to be 'fine dining'. I
wouldn't call it that. The acoustics are such that you almost have to
shout to make yourself heard across the table... what's the opposite
of 'tranquil, relaxed dining"?

There is a Keg restaurant near here that has a similar problem. The
building was originally a paper mill and had been vacant for years before
being converted into a restaurant. They did a nice job in the conversion,
except for the acoustics. My mother used to love that place but I always
found the noise hard to handle. The problem of the high noise level was
compounded by having rock music blaring. That, in turn, caused people to
talk louder to be heard over the music. the food was good, but I always
found it too noisy.

I have the same issue with Red Robin. The boy loves to eat there,
which is fine on occasion, but I do wish they'd turn the music down.
Not that I mind loud music (I'm still a metal-head after all), just
not when I'm trying to eat and converse with my kidling...

--
Jani in WA

One time on Usenet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Smith said:

sf said:

>I am sure that she must be a truly discriminating diner if she would

rather

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>eat at a fast food joint than catch a whiff of tobacco smoke.

That's her choice. It would be mine too. I don't want to be around
smoke and smokers.

Fair enough. You and she can have the crappy food and the screaming kids.
I'll put up with a little smoke.

Smoking is like Masturbating.
It really should be done in private.

I hope that's the only correlation you see between the two. ;-)

Personally, I limit smoking to our back deck. There and only there.
My mother, OTOH, used to light up at the table while we tried to
finish our dinner...

--
Jani in WA

Peter A said:

Exactly. Well, perhaps not exactly - peoples' perceptions are important
to them, but that does not make them right. There are millions of people
who think that Rush speaks the truth, that OJ is innocent, that Jesus
saves, that the world was created 6000 years ago, that astrology
predicts the future, that Bush is a great president, that women are
inferior to men, that Velveeta tastes good, and that Appleby's is fine
dining.

And then there are people who think that having TV's or a "Big Screen"
for watching sports/whatever while eating, are also great in a restaurant...
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Garlic: the element without which life as we know it would be impossible

"Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

They way I figure it is that they should allow smoking and leave it to
customers to patronize the non smoking establishments if they don't like
smoke. My wife, who has never smoked in her life, thinks that is a great
idea.

But, of course that is the most reasonable way to do it.
And that goes for a lot of other things in life, too IMHO.
Dee Dee

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dee Dee said:

Quoted message said:

I do have some sympathy for smokers, but still don't want to have to
breathe it. Smoking rooms or areas should be allowed... somehow. ;-)
--
Peace, Om

Due to the air systems, as you know it's pretty hard to have smoking rooms.
At Costco they have designated a space (with a picnic table) at the back end
of the indoor/outdoor space for the smokers to sit. I can't recall if it's
been there in the winter yet, but so far there are plenty of takers in this
heat.

Tho, I think not being able to smoke during working hours near one's work is
a good incentive for a worker to try to quit the habit for at least 8 hours
a day. Tough, tho.

Dee Dee

Yeah.

Smoking is as hard to quit as any other vice.

I think Mark Twain said it best:

"Quitting smoking is easy. I've done it 1,000 times.".

;-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nancy Young said:

"Dee Dee" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Due to the air systems, as you know it's pretty hard to have smoking
rooms.

I do know that.

Quoted message said:

At Costco they have designated a space (with a picnic table) at the back
end of the indoor/outdoor space for the smokers to sit. I can't recall if
it's been there in the winter yet, but so far there are plenty of takers
in this heat.

Tho, I think not being able to smoke during working hours near one's work
is a good incentive for a worker to try to quit the habit for at least 8
hours a day. Tough, tho.

Oh, they look just miserable as they stand out there on cigarette
breaks every hour. Where's my violin ...

(laugh) nancy

<lol> There is that.
My smoking co-workers always took 3 times as many breaks as the rest of
us, and we took up the slack.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

"ChattyCathy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter A wrote:
And then there are people who think that having TV's or a "Big Screen" for
watching sports/whatever while eating, are also great in a restaurant...
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Yes, I always imagine that they think they are really somewhere. Some women
can really get gussied-up, too.

One little 'joint' (very local) that we ate in when we were out of water in
our kitchen had the ESPN on in several locations in the restaurant/bar.

I ordered a beer with my meal, the waitress plonked it on the table, and
asked me if I wanted a glass -- I said 'yes,' She never came back with a
glass; I went to the bar to pick one up.

I suppose she thought I looked the type that sucked on the bottle ;-))
Dee Dee

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Little Malice) said:

One time on Usenet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Smith said:

sf wrote:

>
> >I am sure that she must be a truly discriminating diner if she would

rather

Quoted message said:

> >eat at a fast food joint than catch a whiff of tobacco smoke.
>
> That's her choice. It would be mine too. I don't want to be around
> smoke and smokers.

Fair enough. You and she can have the crappy food and the screaming kids.
I'll put up with a little smoke.

Smoking is like Masturbating.
It really should be done in private.

I hope that's the only correlation you see between the two. ;-)

It was meant as humor. <g>

Quoted message said:

Personally, I limit smoking to our back deck. There and only there.
My mother, OTOH, used to light up at the table while we tried to
finish our dinner...

Parents should at least smoke outside, out of consideration for their
children.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dee Dee said:

"Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

They way I figure it is that they should allow smoking and leave it to
customers to patronize the non smoking establishments if they don't like
smoke. My wife, who has never smoked in her life, thinks that is a great
idea.

But, of course that is the most reasonable way to do it.
And that goes for a lot of other things in life, too IMHO.
Dee Dee

Gotta love "Nanny Laws".

We the people are not capable of making up our own minds are we?

<sigh>

While I may prefer to not patronize an establishment that allows smoking
indoors, I don't believe that the govt. has the right to make that
choice for the property owners.

I don't support the seatbelt laws either, even tho' I've always worn
mine...

Laws passed for "our own good" tend to violate way too many civil rights.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

Dee Dee said:

One little 'joint' (very local) that we ate in when we were out of water in
our kitchen had the ESPN on in several locations in the restaurant/bar.

I ordered a beer with my meal, the waitress plonked it on the table, and
asked me if I wanted a glass -- I said 'yes,' She never came back with a
glass; I went to the bar to pick one up.

I suppose she thought I looked the type that sucked on the bottle ;-))

Heh. When I "suss-out" a new local restaurant (or one in a strange town)
first thing I check for is if it has TV's or a Big Screen... If it does,
I'll "give it a miss". When dining out I like to be able to concentrate
on the reason I went there in the first place - which is for the food...
Having a crowd of people "yelling and screaming" their support for their
respective "teams" does not bring the term "fine dining" to my mind...
JMHO, of course 😉
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Garlic: the element without which life as we know it would be impossible

Peter A said:

Quoted message said:

Fair enough. You and she can have the crappy food and the screaming kids.
I'll put up with a little smoke.

The way I understood it was that she would go to a fast food joint so
she would be able to smoke.

What the OP said was that the woman said was "that because of the smoking
laws in her town being
too lax (I think), she could not go to "fine dining" restaurants like
Chilis or Applebees, and
was forced to go to fast food joints.

I took that to mean that they allowed smoking in the "fine dining" at
Chilis and Applebees.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

A lot of bars and restaurants around here got screwed by smoking
regulations. For a while they were allowed to have a smoking section if it
was separated and ventilated. A lot of places spent a lot of money to
comply with the regulations, and then they came out with a total ban.

They way I figure it is that they should allow smoking and leave it to
customers to patronize the non smoking establishments if they don't like
smoke. My wife, who has never smoked in her life, thinks that is a great
idea.

The experience in many cities has shown that bars and restaurants do not
lose business if total smoking bans are enacted.

Smoking is not just a "preference" thing - it is well established that
2nd hand smoke causes health problems. Customers may have a choice, but
what about employees? In any case, by your logic we should allow
restaurants to handle food in an unsafe manner and then let "the
customer choose." Or perhaps they can ignore fire safety regulations
because "the customer can choose."

I have sympathy for smokers, it is miserably tough to quit (I know from
experience, 30 years ago). Still, that is no excuse to expose anyone to
poisonous fumes just so you can get your drug fix.

--
Peter Aitken

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

While I may prefer to not patronize an establishment that allows smoking
indoors, I don't believe that the govt. has the right to make that
choice for the property owners.

I don't support the seatbelt laws either, even tho' I've always worn
mine...

Laws passed for "our own good" tend to violate way too many civil rights.

Unless you are a hypocrite, you must also oppose laws requiring
restaurants to handle food safely or to follow fire codes.

--
Peter Aitken

Peter A said:

The experience in many cities has shown that bars and restaurants do not
lose business if total smoking bans are enacted.

That seems to vary from one area to another. According to one site I
checked, 60 of Ottawa's 210 bars closed after the smoking ban was imposed,
and bars in New York reported that business fell by as much as 40% after
the ban. A lot of drinkers also smoke. As the article suggests, if bars
believed that banning smoking in their business would increase revenues
they would be doing it on their own.

http://www.faac.ca/thefacts.htm

ChattyCathy wrote on Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:11:11 +0200:

??>> One little 'joint' (very local) that we ate in when we
??>> were out of water in our kitchen had the ESPN on in
??>> several locations in the restaurant/bar.
??>>
??>> I ordered a beer with my meal, the waitress plonked it on
??>> the table, and asked me if I wanted a glass -- I said
??>> 'yes,' She never came back with a glass; I went to the bar
??>> to pick one up.
??>>
??>> I suppose she thought I looked the type that sucked on the
??>> bottle ;-))

C> Heh. When I "suss-out" a new local restaurant (or one in a
C> strange town) first thing I check for is if it has TV's or a
C> Big Screen... If it does, I'll "give it a miss". When dining
C> out I like to be able to concentrate on the reason I went
C> there in the first place - which is for the food... Having a
C> crowd of people "yelling and screaming" their support for
C> their respective "teams" does not bring the term "fine
C> dining" to my mind... JMHO, of course 😉

It's not an invariable rule. There is a rather good Indian
restaurant called Memsahib in Rockville, MD (off Boiling Brook
if anyone local is interested, next to Katz delicatessen). It
has very low tables, a very large fraction of Indian customers
and a monstrous screen showing Indian movies. They are sometimes
a bit noisy, since like most Indian movies the best description
is "musical", but fun to watch :-)

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

That seems to vary from one area to another. According to one site I
checked, 60 of Ottawa's 210 bars closed after the smoking ban was imposed,
and bars in New York reported that business fell by as much as 40% after
the ban. A lot of drinkers also smoke. As the article suggests, if bars
believed that banning smoking in their business would increase revenues
they would be doing it on their own.

My guess is that your source is wrong. It's telling that it does not
cite a single reliable source, and not even an unreliable source, to
support the so-called "facts" it lists. A few moment's of reading
convinced me that the site is a front for the ventilation industry.

I have read numerous news stories reporting that business was not
harmed, and may have been improved, by smoking bans. Yes, many bar and
restaurant owners were fearful of such bans, and I can understand why.
But, in my extensive reading on this subject I have not seen a shred of
evidence (note that I say evidence, which is different from
unsubstantiated claims) that this actually happens.

--
Peter Aitken

Peter wrote on Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:06:21 -0400:

PA> In article <[email hidden]>,
PA> [email hidden] says...
??>> That seems to vary from one area to another. According to
??>> one site I checked, 60 of Ottawa's 210 bars closed after
??>> the smoking ban was imposed, and bars in New York reported
??>> that business fell by as much as 40% after the ban. A lot
??>> of drinkers also smoke. As the article suggests, if
??>> bars believed that banning smoking in their business would
??>> increase revenues they would be doing it on their own.
??>>
PA> My guess is that your source is wrong. It's telling that it
PA> does not cite a single reliable source, and not even an
PA> unreliable source, to support the so-called "facts" it
PA> lists. A few moment's of reading convinced me that the site
PA> is a front for the ventilation industry.

PA> I have read numerous news stories reporting that business
PA> was not harmed, and may have been improved, by smoking
PA> bans. Yes, many bar and restaurant owners were fearful of
PA> such bans, and I can understand why. But, in my extensive
PA> reading on this subject I have not seen a shred of evidence
PA> (note that I say evidence, which is different from
PA> unsubstantiated claims) that this actually happens.

It is customary for bar and restaurant owners to maintain
vehemently that they will be ruined! It happened in Scotland,
Ireland and Montgomery County, USA where I live. They weren't
ruined but there have been few apologies for the scare stories!

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dee Dee said:

Our town is growing a lot, but there are no bistro-type restaurants;
just chains.
Dee Dee

Franchise and chain places have a business model to follow. Without the
consistent support of the local populace plus folks from outside the
immediate market area, I think it's really hard for an independent place
to survive and thrive. And I think it's hard for them to find some sort
of balance in menu to please the adventuresome diners and to appease the
folks who just want something on their plates that they didn't have to
prepare themselves. JMO.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
For your listening pleasure: http://www.am1500.com/pcast/80509.mp3 --
from the MN State Fair, 8-29-07