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Fat for fuel

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Road Cycling
Published
8 May 2003
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19 May 2003
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Warren
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  1. In article <[email hidden]>, Andy Coggan

    Quoted message said:

    To expand on that a bit: I do think that the notion that there's some magic 2 h "window"
    post-exercise during which you *must* eat to maximize glycogen resynthesis is a
    misinterpretation/misrepresentation of the available research (primarly John Ivy's studies).

    What about the better-than-normal amount of help from insulin right after the exercise? Isn't this a
    reason to eat a decent amount in the first hour or so?

    Would you say that sooner is better than later because of insulin (aside from the time constraints
    imposed by sleeping, etc.) ?

    You mentioned "driving" insulin longer to increase absorbtion/uptake over a longer period. How do
    you do this?

    -WG

  2. "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Andy Coggan

    Quoted message said:

    To expand on that a bit: I do think that the notion that there's some


    magic

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2 h "window" post-exercise during which you *must* eat to maximize


    glycogen

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    resynthesis is a misinterpretation/misrepresentation of the available research (primarly John
    Ivy's studies).

    What about the better-than-normal amount of help from insulin right after the exercise? Isn't this
    a reason to eat a decent amount in the first hour or so?

    Sure it is. (BTW, the "better-than-normal amount of help from insulin" is the result of an increase
    in insulin action, not an increase in insulin secretion...you probably know this, but others may
    not). However, glycogen depletion itself is a potent stimulus for glycogen resynthesis (and
    accumulation of glycogen tends to inhibit further accumulation). This likely explains why studies
    have shown that by the time you get out to 24 hours, it makes little difference (in terms of
    glycogen storage - a potentially important caveat) when or what you eat, as long as you eat enough.

    Quoted message said:

    Would you say that sooner is better than later because of insulin (aside from the time constraints
    imposed by sleeping, etc.) ?

    I say sooner is better than later based mostly on knowing what it feels like to train hard and then
    not eat enough carbohydrate over the next several hours....

    Quoted message said:

    You mentioned "driving" insulin longer to increase absorbtion/uptake over a longer period. How do
    you do this?

    It's pretty easy: just eat more CHO at more frequent intervals (my favorite food for this purpose is
    Fig Newtons).

    Andy Coggan

  3. "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Wayne <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Maybe you can join he and Eric on one of their rides. You can tell him about your study
    results and he can tell you about the (legal) injection that the pros like to get right before
    starting a TT?

    This is relevant to this discussion, how?

    It's relevant to Andy. Andy is a TT'er mostly and sometimes pursuiter.

    While TTing is my strength (and sprinting my weakness), I would describe myself as all-around road
    racer - and I think other 40+ riders in the Mid-Atlantic region wouldn't dispute that claim. As for
    pursuiting, I've only ridden two 3k's in my life, and only one of those was a serious effort.

    Quoted message said:

    He might be interested in the benefits of the injection, or at least its ingredients, and they
    would have plenty of other things to talk about during the ride.

    W/o even knowing what's in the syringe, I submit that any benefit is purely
    psychological - and I'm surprised that a physician of Testa's reputation would be into playing
    such games.

    Andy Coggan

  4. warren said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Andy Coggan

    Quoted message said:

    To expand on that a bit: I do think that the notion that there's some magic 2 h "window"
    post-exercise during which you *must* eat to maximize glycogen resynthesis is a
    misinterpretation/misrepresentation of the available research (primarly John Ivy's studies).

    What about the better-than-normal amount of help from insulin right after the exercise? Isn't this
    a reason to eat a decent amount in the first hour or so?

    Keep in mind that it's not that you produce more insulin, it's that your muscles are more insulin
    sensitive post-workout.

    --

    Scott Johnson "be a man ,stop looking for handouts , eat ,lift and shut your mouth" -John Carlo

  5. Quoted message said:

    99% of coaches are not being paid to train the best riders in the world like Max was/is. Why do
    you think he is part of that 1%?

    Maybe it's what he knows about the stuff they put in their syringes that makes him so valuable 🙂

    Wayne

  6. "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Andy Coggan

    Quoted message said:

    I agree w/ your comment about ratios or percentages generally not being


    as

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    informative as expressing intakes or requirements in terms of grams per kilogram body weight (or
    better still (?), lean body mass).

    Aha! -Based on LBM, of course! Much more relevant, but that book won't sell because few people
    want to admit what their LBM is.

    -WG 185

    It is far easier for people to figure their weight than determining LBM.

  7. In article <[email hidden]>, Andy Coggan

    Quoted message said:

    "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You mentioned "driving" insulin longer to increase absorbtion/uptake over a longer period. How
    do you do this?

    It's pretty easy: just eat more CHO at more frequent intervals (my favorite food for this purpose
    is Fig Newtons).

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this. Raspberry Newtons, heated in the microwave are my choice.
    Cytomax says they contain more polylactate which allows me to train harder.

    -WG

  8. In article <[email hidden]>, Andy Coggan

    Quoted message said:

    "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    He might be interested in the benefits of the injection, or at least its ingredients, and they
    would have plenty of other things to talk about during the ride.

    W/o even knowing what's in the syringe, I submit that any benefit is purely
    psychological - and I'm surprised that a physician of Testa's reputation would be into playing
    such games.

    He says he's not sure if, or why it works as well as the riders say it does, but even the Tour
    winner wants it.

    -WG

  9. Thanks. It occurred to me three postings later what it meant.

    "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article


    <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:
    Tom Kunich said:

    For us chemistry handicaped people - what do you mean by CHO?

    Carbohydrate.

  10. warren said:
    In article said:

    Again, why do think someone couldn't be capable of training bike racers without a 100% accurate
    grasp of exercise physiology? If this were the case 90% of coaches would be out of business!

    99% of coaches are not being paid to train the best riders in the world like Max was/is. Why do
    you think he is part of that 1%?

    Quoted message said:


    Like everything else, it's not what you know but who you know.

  11. In article said:
    warren said:
    In article said:

    Again, why do think someone couldn't be capable of training bike racers without a 100% accurate
    grasp of exercise physiology? If this were the case 90% of coaches would be out of business!

    99% of coaches are not being paid to train the best riders in the world like Max was/is. Why do
    you think he is part of that 1%?

    Quoted message said:


    Like everything else, it's not what you know but who you know.

    Typical response from a person who doesn't know enough to get the job.
    Mr. Squinczi pays him because he can help Mapei reach their goals. The proof is in the results.

    -WG

  12. Andy Coggan <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : I do recall endorsing Dannon (or other similar brands) yogurt as a "recovery food".

    Which level of ability do you need before you can sign contracts for endorsing a particular brand of
    yoghurt on rec.bicycles.racing?

    --
    Risto "definitely needs new shoes" Varanka helsinki.fihpv.html varis at no
    spam please iki fi

  13. Wayne <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : My understanding of this area is that "training the body to rely on fats" is a temporary
    : consequence of the low-carb/high-fat meal (i.e. a greater reliance on fats will only occur during
    : that ride). That is, you can't "teach" your body to use fats vs. carbs for energy by manipulating
    : the diet, riding without carbs, etc. Any effect you see is the result of the diet at that moment
    : (or the preceding meal), not a change in the person's physiology. Of course, just getting fitter
    : (increasing aerobic capacity) will allow you to rely more on fats for energy, but that's
    : different than saying you can "teach" the body to rely more on fats by simply avoiding carbs
    : during training, etc.

    So is there no sense in riding over 1.5 hours, because that depletes glycogen stores so primarily
    fat is available? Any other way to train for burning fats - training in the lower HR zones or
    something?

    --
    Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

  14. warren <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : Isn't there some evidence that turkey contains a substance (tryptophan?) that not only helps you
    : sleep but also aids in the absorption of protein?

    If I recall over a decade back, that amino acid is also present in milk, and there are tables where
    you can look things like these up.

    In these days one might use Google ;p

    --
    Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

  15. Andy Coggan <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : W/o even knowing what's in the syringe, I submit that any benefit is purely
    : psychological - and I'm surprised that a physician of Testa's reputation would be into playing
    : such games.

    Psychological benefits don't help performance? Cf. placebo being rather efficient medicine 😉

    --
    Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

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