Eulogy

I think those are vibration dampeners. I would think they would make one with an open access port in the seat where by a receptacle could be placed.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB
A "scam". No. Not by any definition of the word.

Carbon fiber is easily capable of being tuned to give a lively ride, a compliant ride, an ultra-stiff ride or a good mix of all of those characteristics. It can also yield a frame that is torsionally very rigid. It can be manufactured to be more aerodynamic than steel, aluminum or titanium. It can be made lighter than steel with complete carbon fiber bikes coming in under ten pounds available at your local Trek dealer if you have the money and desire.

I do agree with you that steel (and titanium) are the most durable materials for a bicycle frame and that steel, in most cases, offers the best option as far as repairability goes. The rest of your list can easily be matched or exceeded by other materials.

Comfort: I've had steel bikes that rode like gas pipe 'thudders' (Columbus Cromor, in particular, was a very dead tube set used in two frames I owned and raced). Titanium, in my experience, is a very comfortable material to design a bike frame with. Without losing all semblance of liveliness it can be engineered to soak up tons of bumps and road imperfections and makes a great all-day bike. By the same token, designing a comfortable carbon frame that still exhibits sufficient stiffness to win World Tour events has become ridiculously commonplace.

Speed: ??? All frame materials are 'fast'. Given a good motor, reasonable aero shaping and angles for good handling any and all of the common frame materials could still be competitive at any level including the professionals.

Reliable: The word can mean something close to "durability", but if used to describe something like the day-to-day requirements of an average fit guy out ride 30-75 miles maybe 3 to 5 times a week...my low-end carbon frames have managed to do everything my steel and titanium ones did...including break. Yes, I've broken both steel and carbon frames and I can tell you story after story from back in the glory days of steel frame of friends, team mates and competitors that had steel crack, split, come un-brazed and just plain fail. It wasn't a time of all drippy Italian paint jobs and chipping decals...

Style: That's in the eye of the beholder and frankly, there's plenty of fugly steel bikes out there. Overall, I've found eye-pleasing designs in all frame materials, save for wood. I just find it (personally) unsuitable in the styling department.

Bling: Again, as much as I love chrome Nervex Professional lugs, chrome Campy bolt-on pump umbrellas, a chrome Campy double-tunnel, stainless steel spiral wound Campy rear derailleur cable housing, polished Cinelli articles, black anodized track pedals and pantographed EVERYTHING tossed on a chromed up Colnago Profile CX with indented tubing and a 12-step paint job clear-coated to an optical depth of 4"...again, however cool I believe it to be, is not everyone's idea of bling.

Today, bling is dead sexy UD carbon, flowing aero joinery, minimalism in materials usage, electronic function with internal wiring (we used to call it "sano" back in the 1960's for a sanitary build of a car or hobby project), matte mixed with gloss, high-vis paint schemes, black components or painted ones have replaced the anodized and polish aluminum ones I used to buy. Stainless polished spokes have given way to black featureless ones that do not flash in the sun like my old DT's did. Today's bling probably does include documenting every minor and major technical feature of a frame with its own decal or set of decals. Even serial numbers now have devolved into some sort of bar code decal, but this reflects the younger generation of designers' builders' and customers' definition of what is showy I guess.

One thing that is not mentioned much is the weight comparison to the average steel frame and fork and even an inexpensive carbon frame and fork. I live in some fairly steep terrain, do a bit of climbing and I really appreciate the weight drop afforded by going to carbon fiber construction. As you said, maybe it's a placebo effect, but I'll take the dragging 3 to 7 pounds less up every of the many climbs I do in a ride as the biggest sales factor in my bike buying priorities. I deem it an advantage and I'll only level the playing field in playing 'keep up with the carbon equipped Joneses', but I'll take it any way I can get it. A flatlander probably will not see the need as greatly, obviously.

I still have a couple rooms stacked full of my well used and well liked steel and titanium bicycles and only four carbon bikes. I've was on steel starting in 1972 and have only been on carbon since only 2007, but with its known characteristics and perceived faults I seriously doubt that I ever return to riding steel bikes. I'm 61 and have been training and racing for 43 years. They had better hurry up if they want to get me another frame material...I ain't got that much time left!

Just my 2 cents worth and take it for what it cost you.
Regards,
CampyBob

Hey Bob, almost everything you say makes me think you are a prime candidate for a shiny new Bottecchia or Chesini.

I don't buy the weight issue with frames. A pound or two of "dead" weight is insignificant. Carry less water, eat one less doughnut. Rolling mass is another thing. Where anything that spins, consider your weight. Shoes, rims, tyres.

Yes, I can see nude carbon being sexy for some but its not my cup of tea. Give me straight lines, slim, elegant classic style, chrome everything any day.

Life is too short to be riding boring bikes. With a classic steel, you get it all. It is a masterpiece, a thing of beauty with the ride, speed & comfort.

Have a look what this bloke is doing. Can you imagine his excitement not to mention the hole in his wallet.

[IMG]cyclingforums.com1000Open ↗[/IMG]

[IMG]cyclingforums.com1000Open ↗[/IMG]

My build would have to be an everyday rider. So I would want relatively modern componentry. It would also have to be shiny (chrome like). Basically that leaves me with only one choice, Chorus. Am I correct or are there other options?

By the way, 61 is not old. I have a cycling buddy who is turning 78. He follows the AU & europe summers just to cycle. He is planning his 20th consecutive Alpine Classic, a 200 km, 3500 metre audax event held annually from Bright Vic in AU alpine high country. He rides a custom steel Hillbrick.

61 isn't old but it is a hell of a lot harder to deal with than 41 but we take the cards we are dealt. Is your friend named Thomas because I have a friend that sounds similar. I would expand but I need a nap since it is almost 9 pm and my bed time.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by jhuskey

Is your friend named Thomas because I have a friend that sounds similar. I would expand but I need a nap since it is almost 9 pm and my bed time.

No. Eric is a great traveling companion. He is fluent in English, German, French, Italian & [censored].

Scott, I own a bunch of nice Eyetalian steel and vintage Campagnolo pieces parts. Enough to equip a well-doped squad of pros from the 1980's or 1990's! But, I'm always up for a classic Bottechia! There can never be enough miles of Columbus or Reynolds tubing in one man's garage.

While never necessarily an axiom set in stone, 61 can certainly be old. When you've met planet earth at 20 to 30 MPH as many times as I have you will remember Every. Damned. Single. One. Of. Them.

Then we can toss in the motorcycle 'events' that changed my life. The car stuff, on and off the track. Did I mention I'm on wife number 3 and always on the lookout for number 4?

And then there was the polio at age 2-1/2. And the resulting seven major surgeries.

Let's not forget that emergency bowel re-section required to save my internally bleeding out life.

Some days I fly like a scared white [censored] and climb like I was being chased by Pantani. Then I wake up.

I certainly do hope to be riding like your 78-year old friend when and if I reach his age, but the odds of me making that far are not a bet most bookmakers would cover.