Dura Ace Triple

I would think you could get it swapped out for around a $1,000 upcharge!

Quoted message said:

I see that as of May '05, it will be possible to buy a Dura Ace Triple.
Does anyone know if it will be standard equipment on any bicycles. I
would especially like to buy a Trek Madone with the Dura Ace Triple.

As things presently stand, there's no likelihood of seeing a DuraAce triple
on a Madone until sometime in '06, if at all. The compact-crank phenomenon
is taking off so strongly that many manufacturers are willing to make the
assumption that high-end bike customers are generally going to want to go
with that rather than a slightly-heavier triple.

In the meantime... don't bother waiting for the DuraAce. If you need a
triple, the new Ultegra 10 triple levers work great, and you can match them
to an FSA carbon triple crankset if your heart desires something
cutting-edge cool. We've made this change to a couple of Madone 5.9 SSLs
with great results.

Well... now that I've said that, I should point out that the Madone is
obscenely oversold (far more demand than production), so by the time you get
one, the DuraAce triple might be an available option anyway!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

In the meantime... don't bother waiting for the DuraAce. If you need a
triple, the new Ultegra 10 triple levers work great, and you can match them
to an FSA carbon triple crankset if your heart desires something
cutting-edge cool. We've made this change to a couple of Madone 5.9 SSLs
with great results.

Must be my day to disagree with you. We saw in the setup of the first
ultegra that it exhibited much of the same finnicyness of the DA 9s
triple. Far less functional than the ultegra 9s or even the 105 9s triple.

I think the 39 vs the 42 is the culprit, and the resulting front
derailleur design, this front der which in fact won't work on a 52/42/30
triple(cage hits the 42 when in the 52/3)

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

In the meantime... don't bother waiting for the DuraAce. If you need a
triple, the new Ultegra 10 triple levers work great, and you can match them
to an FSA carbon triple crankset if your heart desires something
cutting-edge cool. We've made this change to a couple of Madone 5.9 SSLs
with great results.

Must be my day to disagree with you. We saw in the setup of the first
ultegra that it exhibited much of the same finnicyness of the DA 9s
triple. Far less functional than the ultegra 9s or even the 105 9s triple.

I think the 39 vs the 42 is the culprit, and the resulting front
derailleur design, this front der which in fact won't work on a 52/42/30
triple(cage hits the 42 when in the 52/3)

The DA 9-speed 7703 FD will shift 52-42-30, it is not designed for it,
but can be made to work.
I used the DA triple FD with a Tiagra triple crankset. The LBS
installed it and adjusted it. I think you have to set it up to clear
the 42 and then it does sit a little high for the 52. I never had a
problem with it losing the chain.

When I installed my DA triple crankset the FD was in the correct spot,
I didn't have to move it up or down.

Not optium, but it will work.

Life is Good!
Jeff

I'm interested in a Trek Pilot 5.0 or 5.2. The 5.0 has a 52, 39, 30 and a
12-27 in the back. Right now I have a 52, 39,30 in the front and a 12-34 in
the back with an XT rear derailer. I'm really bad on hills--old, fat. What
could be done on the Trek Pilot. My present arrangement is always hard to
shift because of the extreme range.

Any ideas? Suggestions--Young and skinny are good suggestions but I'm not
making much progress on either.

Alan Acock

Alan C. Acock said:

I'm interested in a Trek Pilot 5.0 or 5.2. The 5.0 has a 52, 39, 30
and a 12-27 in the back. Right now I have a 52, 39,30 in the front
and a 12-34 in the back with an XT rear derailer. I'm really bad on
hills--old, fat. What could be done on the Trek Pilot. My present
arrangement is always hard to shift because of the extreme range.

Any ideas? Suggestions--Young and skinny are good suggestions but I'm
not making much progress on either.

I'd go ahead and ride the 12-27 with the triple; bet you make it up some
hills on which you currently use the -34 pie plate! (And if it's just TOO
steep, walk the bike up -- no shame in that, and exercise is exercise.)

If I can get up Mt. Palomar with a 12-25 (yes, with a triple), then you can
do more than you think with a 12-27. (And, if worse comes to worst, throw
the mtb gear back on. My bet is you won't have to.)

Dr. Bill

Alan C. Acock said:

I'm interested in a Trek Pilot 5.0 or 5.2. The 5.0 has a 52, 39, 30 and a
12-27 in the back. Right now I have a 52, 39,30 in the front and a 12-34 in
the back with an XT rear derailer. I'm really bad on hills--old, fat. What
could be done on the Trek Pilot. My present arrangement is always hard to
shift because of the extreme range.

Any ideas? Suggestions--Young and skinny are good suggestions but I'm not
making much progress on either.

Do you actually use the 30x34 combination? If not then you probably aren't
losing anything. Maybe I'm looking at this wrong but I don't see the need in
having gear combinations I don't use on the bike.

I'd try it anyway - If you need more gear it won't be hard to get a cassette
change.

Ron

Alan C. Acock said:

I'm interested in a Trek Pilot 5.0 or 5.2. The 5.0 has a 52, 39, 30
and a 12-27 in the back. Right now I have a 52, 39,30 in the front
and a 12-34 in the back with an XT rear derailer. I'm really bad on
hills--old, fat. What could be done on the Trek Pilot. My present
arrangement is always hard to shift because of the extreme range.

Change the inner chainring for a 26. If that causes any problems then
also swap the 52 for a 50 (and take a link out of the chain if possible).

~PB

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1111856327.933874605fb6cd229543d1049ebf69ec@teranews...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

In the meantime... don't bother waiting for the DuraAce. If you need a
triple, the new Ultegra 10 triple levers work great, and you can match

them

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to an FSA carbon triple crankset if your heart desires something
cutting-edge cool. We've made this change to a couple of Madone 5.9 SSLs
with great results.

Must be my day to disagree with you. We saw in the setup of the first
ultegra that it exhibited much of the same finnicyness of the DA 9s
triple. Far less functional than the ultegra 9s or even the 105 9s triple.

I think the 39 vs the 42 is the culprit, and the resulting front
derailleur design, this front der which in fact won't work on a 52/42/30
triple(cage hits the 42 when in the 52/3)

Could you use the Ultegra 9 triple FD with the Ultegra 10 triple levers if
you wanted 52/42/30 chainrings?

"Alan C. Acock" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I'm interested in a Trek Pilot 5.0 or 5.2. The 5.0 has a 52, 39, 30 and a
12-27 in the back. Right now I have a 52, 39,30 in the front and a 12-34
in the back with an XT rear derailer. I'm really bad on hills--old, fat.
What could be done on the Trek Pilot.

You can put a 34 cassette and XT rear derailleur on the Trek.

Alan C. Acock said:

I'm interested in a Trek Pilot 5.0 or 5.2. The 5.0 has a 52, 39, 30

and a

Quoted message said:

12-27 in the back. Right now I have a 52, 39,30 in the front and a

12-34 in

Quoted message said:

the back with an XT rear derailer. I'm really bad on hills--old, fat.

What

Quoted message said:

could be done on the Trek Pilot. My present arrangement is always

hard to

Quoted message said:

shift because of the extreme range.

Any ideas? Suggestions--Young and skinny are good suggestions but I'm

not

Quoted message said:

making much progress on either.

The Trek Pilot 5.0 is 9 speed Shimano. The Trek Pilot 5.2 is 10 speed
Shimano. With the 9 speed setup you can do about anything to get
whatever gears you want. Just take the rear derailleur and cogs off
your current bike and put them on the new bike. And put a 24 or 26 or
28 inner chainring on the triple crankset. Anything you want. Throw
the 52 outer ring in the junk pile and put on a 46 outer ring. Change
the 39 to a 38. You sure don't need a 52 outer ring if you need really
low gears. Best to make the Trek factory store change the rear
cassette and rear derailleur as a condition of the sale.

As for getting lower gears on the 10 speed Shimano setup, you have one
option. Well I guess 2 since idiot Trek ships the bike with the
foolish 12-25 cassette. You can waste lots of money and change the
12-25 factory cassette for a 12-27. Or best to just make the bike shop
change it as a condition of the sale. Then your only option is to
change the inner chainring to a 24 or 26 or 28 to get lower gears. The
largest rear cog is a 27 in Shimano 10 speed.

I'm not sure what you mean by "My present arrangement is always hard to
shift because of the extreme range." Do you mean you want really close
gears like 13-23 (Campagnolo cassette) and want super low gearing too?
If so then your only options are something like a 12-23 or 13-23
cassette with a 42-32-20 triple crankset. TA offers such a crankset
from Peter White Cycles where you tell him what you want for
chainrings. This is not the cheapest option. But where there is
money, there is a way.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

Alan C. Acock said:

I'm interested in a Trek Pilot 5.0 or 5.2. The 5.0 has a 52, 39, 30 and a
12-27 in the back. Right now I have a 52, 39,30 in the front and a 12-34 in
the back with an XT rear derailer. I'm really bad on hills--old, fat. What
could be done on the Trek Pilot. My present arrangement is always hard to
shift because of the extreme range.

Any ideas? Suggestions--Young and skinny are good suggestions but I'm not
making much progress on either.

_ Ask the shop about switching the crankset to a 110/74 triple.
Sugino makes a very nice that's pretty cheap as well. You
can then easily run something like 26/36/48 which works very
well with a 12-25 or 12-27 cassette. You'll need to be able to
lower the front derailler a bit.

_ Booker C. Bense

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Russell Seaton said:

The Trek Pilot 5.0 is 9 speed Shimano. The Trek Pilot 5.2 is 10 speed
Shimano. With the 9 speed setup you can do about anything to get
whatever gears you want. Just take the rear derailleur and cogs off
your current bike and put them on the new bike. And put a 24 or 26 or
28 inner chainring on the triple crankset. Anything you want. Throw
the 52 outer ring in the junk pile and put on a 46 outer ring. Change
the 39 to a 38. You sure don't need a 52 outer ring if you need really
low gears. Best to make the Trek factory store change the rear
cassette and rear derailleur as a condition of the sale....

When are the Campy fanatics going to admit that 10-speed cassettes were
really a marketing ploy, since 9-speed clusters were perfectly adequate
for even the racers? Of course Shimano had to respond for marketing
reasons, making their new road components incompatible with both MTB and
older road components.

Shimano often gets flamed for introducing new, incompatible components
for marketing reasons. It is time the same standard was applied to
Campagnolo.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Downstate Illinois, North of Forgottonia)

Tom Sherman said:

When are the Campy fanatics going to admit that 10-speed cassettes were
really a marketing ploy, since 9-speed clusters were perfectly adequate
for even the racers? Of course Shimano had to respond for marketing
reasons, making their new road components incompatible with both MTB and
older road components.

That's not really correct. Shimano stuff is generally intercompatible
among different numbers of speeds.

Obviously you need to match the shifter to the number of sprockets, and
you can't use a wide chain with narrow-spaced sprockets, but that's
mainly it for the general run of parts.

You may be confused by the Dura-Ace issue. The 2005 Dura-Ace hubs are
less compatible, but it isn't really because of the move to 10 speed,
it's because they went to an aluminum Freehub body for the weight
weenies, and the standard spline grooves aren't really tall enough for
non-steel Freehub bodies.

This situation applies ONLY to the 2005 Dura-Ace hubs. All other
Shimano hubs that will take an 8-speed cassette can also be used with a
7-, 9- or 10-speed cassette. There's also no important
interchangeability issue with derailers or chainrings, despite what the
marketeers say.

Quoted message said:

Shimano often gets flamed for introducing new, incompatible components
for marketing reasons. It is time the same standard was applied to
Campagnolo.

If you do that, it looks bad for Campagnolo. Shimano has been a model
company in this regard for quite a while now.

Sheldon "Interchangeabilitude" Brown
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Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
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Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Tom Sherman said:

Russell Seaton said:

The Trek Pilot 5.0 is 9 speed Shimano. The Trek Pilot 5.2 is 10

speed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shimano. With the 9 speed setup you can do about anything to get
whatever gears you want. Just take the rear derailleur and cogs

off

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

your current bike and put them on the new bike. And put a 24 or 26

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

28 inner chainring on the triple crankset. Anything you want.

Throw

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the 52 outer ring in the junk pile and put on a 46 outer ring.

Change

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the 39 to a 38. You sure don't need a 52 outer ring if you need

really

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

low gears. Best to make the Trek factory store change the rear
cassette and rear derailleur as a condition of the sale....

When are the Campy fanatics going to admit that 10-speed cassettes

were

Quoted message said:

really a marketing ploy, since 9-speed clusters were perfectly

adequate

Quoted message said:

for even the racers?

I use 9 speed on my two Campagnolo bikes. Do you own any Campagnolo
bikes? I have 7 speed Shimano on my loaded touring bike. Never bought
into the Shimano BS of going to 8 speed and then 9 speed and then 10
speed. How many gears do you have on your Shimano bikes?

Quoted message said:

Of course Shimano had to respond for marketing
reasons, making their new road components incompatible with both MTB

and

Quoted message said:

older road components.

Shimano often gets flamed for introducing new, incompatible

components

Quoted message said:

for marketing reasons. It is time the same standard was applied to
Campagnolo.

For many years Shimano had Dura Ace operating on a completely different
platform than its other groups. I have several friends using 8 speed
Dura Ace from the mid-early 1990s. Because of Shimano, they cannot
simply upgrade when one of the key parts breaks. Shimano planning for
you. As for incompatibility, how about Shimano bottom brackets?
Square taper to Octalink for road cranks, and different Octalink for
mountain cranks, to the latest method using a pinch bolt. And will a
Shimano 9 speed pinch bolt crank work on 10 speed Shimano pinch bolt
road bottom bracket bearings? Or is this incompatibility designed in.
And how about Shimano STI shifters that require a different left lever
to shift a double or a triple? Shimano really has something going
there, making people buy whole new sets of STI levers if they want to
have a triple instead of a double. And Shimano designing road triple
rear derailleurs that cannot clear the large mountain bike cogs so you
have to get a mountain bike rear derailleur to clear the large 32-34
cogs.

Campagnolo Ergo [censored] don't care if its triple or double, they work
perfectly on either. If you switch from 9 to 10 speed, the Ergo levers
take a cheap disc to convert. STI cannot do this of course.
Campagnolo bottom bracket square tapers fit all of their cranks. They
do have the symmetric and asymmetric designs though. Want to go from 8
speed Record to 9 or 10 speed Record? No need to change the rear
derailleur. Not so with Dura Ace. Want to put 9 or 10 speed cheap
Veloce cassette on a 9 or 10 speed Record hub? No problem with
Campagnolo. Cannot put a 9 or 10 speed Ultegra cassette on a new 10
speed Dura Ace hub. Not compatible. Campagnolo long cage rear
derailleurs, medium and long, both clear the same number of teeth on
the cog. Just different wrap.

I think these facts mentioned above prove Shimano has purposefully or
maybe incompetently built incompatibility into their bike parts. While
Campagnolo understands bicycles and puts in the extra effort to make
sure parts work together.

Quoted message said:

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Downstate Illinois, North of Forgottonia)

Tom Sherman said:

Russell Seaton said:

The Trek Pilot 5.0 is 9 speed Shimano. The Trek Pilot 5.2 is 10

speed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shimano. With the 9 speed setup you can do about anything to get
whatever gears you want. Just take the rear derailleur and cogs

off

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

your current bike and put them on the new bike. And put a 24 or 26

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

28 inner chainring on the triple crankset. Anything you want.

Throw

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the 52 outer ring in the junk pile and put on a 46 outer ring.

Change

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the 39 to a 38. You sure don't need a 52 outer ring if you need

really

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

low gears. Best to make the Trek factory store change the rear
cassette and rear derailleur as a condition of the sale....

When are the Campy fanatics going to admit that 10-speed cassettes

were

Quoted message said:

really a marketing ploy, since 9-speed clusters were perfectly

adequate

Quoted message said:

for even the racers?

I use 9 speed on my two Campagnolo bikes. Do you own any Campagnolo
bikes? I have 7 speed Shimano on my loaded touring bike. Never bought
into the Shimano BS of going to 8 speed and then 9 speed and then 10
speed. How many gears do you have on your Shimano bikes?

Quoted message said:

Of course Shimano had to respond for marketing
reasons, making their new road components incompatible with both MTB

and

Quoted message said:

older road components.

Shimano often gets flamed for introducing new, incompatible

components

Quoted message said:

for marketing reasons. It is time the same standard was applied to
Campagnolo.

For many years Shimano had Dura Ace operating on a completely different
platform than its other groups. I have several friends using 8 speed
Dura Ace from the mid-early 1990s. Because of Shimano, they cannot
simply upgrade when one of the key parts breaks. Shimano planning for
you. As for incompatibility, how about Shimano bottom brackets?
Square taper to Octalink for road cranks, and different Octalink for
mountain cranks, to the latest method using a pinch bolt. And will a
Shimano 9 speed pinch bolt crank work on 10 speed Shimano pinch bolt
road bottom bracket bearings? Or is this incompatibility designed in.
And how about Shimano STI shifters that require a different left lever
to shift a double or a triple? Shimano really has something going
there, making people buy whole new sets of STI levers if they want to
have a triple instead of a double. And Shimano designing road triple
rear derailleurs that cannot clear the large mountain bike cogs so you
have to get a mountain bike rear derailleur to clear the large 32-34
cogs.

Campagnolo Ergo [censored] don't care if its triple or double, they work
perfectly on either. If you switch from 9 to 10 speed, the Ergo levers
take a cheap disc to convert. STI cannot do this of course.
Campagnolo bottom bracket square tapers fit all of their cranks. They
do have the symmetric and asymmetric designs though. Want to go from 8
speed Record to 9 or 10 speed Record? No need to change the rear
derailleur. Not so with Dura Ace. Want to put 9 or 10 speed cheap
Veloce cassette on a 9 or 10 speed Record hub? No problem with
Campagnolo. Cannot put a 9 or 10 speed Ultegra cassette on a new 10
speed Dura Ace hub. Not compatible. Campagnolo long cage rear
derailleurs, medium and long, both clear the same number of teeth on
the cog. Just different wrap.

I think these facts mentioned above prove Shimano has purposefully or
maybe incompetently built incompatibility into their bike parts. While
Campagnolo understands bicycles and puts in the extra effort to make
sure parts work together.

Quoted message said:

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Downstate Illinois, North of Forgottonia)

Sheldon Brown said:

Tom Sherman said:

When are the Campy fanatics going to admit that 10-speed cassettes
were really a marketing ploy, since 9-speed clusters were perfectly
adequate for even the racers? Of course Shimano had to respond for
marketing reasons, making their new road components incompatible with
both MTB and older road components.

That's not really correct. Shimano stuff is generally intercompatible
among different numbers of speeds....

What I was thinking of was the ability to mix and match "road" and
"ATB/hybrid" parts. For example, a flatland rider taking a trip in the
mountains can trade a 9-speed Shimano road derailleur and cassette for
the wider range ATB parts while still using the same wheel and shifter.

This is not possible with 9-speed ATB systems and 10-speed road systems.
It is unlikely for ATB systems to go to 10-speed, since they would be
even more problematic when dirty [1].

[1] A common occurrence on ATB bicycles used off-road, even when clean
at the start of a ride.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Downstate Illinois, North of Forgottonia)

Sheldon Brown said:

Tom Sherman said:

When are the Campy fanatics going to admit that 10-speed cassettes
were really a marketing ploy, since 9-speed clusters were perfectly
adequate for even the racers? Of course Shimano had to respond for
marketing reasons, making their new road components incompatible with
both MTB and older road components.

That's not really correct. Shimano stuff is generally intercompatible
among different numbers of speeds....

What I was thinking of was the ability to mix and match "road" and
"ATB/hybrid" parts. For example, a flatland rider taking a trip in the
mountains can trade a 9-speed Shimano road derailleur and cassette for
the wider range ATB parts while still using the same wheel and shifter.

This is not possible with 9-speed ATB systems and 10-speed road systems.
It is unlikely for ATB systems to go to 10-speed, since they would be
even more problematic when dirty [1].

[1] A common occurrence on ATB bicycles used off-road, even when clean
at the start of a ride.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Downstate Illinois, North of Forgottonia)

Russell Seaton said:

...
I use 9 speed on my two Campagnolo bikes. Do you own any Campagnolo
bikes? I have 7 speed Shimano on my loaded touring bike. Never bought
into the Shimano BS of going to 8 speed and then 9 speed and then 10
speed. How many gears do you have on your Shimano bikes?...

My ATB has 8-speed Shimano (typical for an ATB that retailed for ~$500
in 1999). My lowracer and trike have primarily Shimano drivetrains, and
both use ATB rear derailleurs and wide range cassettes (not available
from Campagnolo).

Since I do not have an upright road bike, Campagnolo does not really
make many components addressed to my needs (all my recumbent bikes have
flat bars and wide tires).

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Downstate Illinois, North of Forgottonia)