Dumb question: why carbo load?

Quoted message said:

Hi all:

This is a probably a dumb question with no practical purpose, but here
goes...I've been reading up on running a marathon, and it seems like
"carbo loading" is a pre-race tradition. But I'm wondering why? It's
always been my understanding that, after the first 20 minutes or so of
a run, your body kicks into fat/protein burning mode.

What percentage of energy comes from carbs during this so-called "fat/protein
burning mode" ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

"carbo loading" is a pre-race tradition. But I'm wondering why?
It's always been my understanding that, after the first 20 minutes
or so of a run, your body kicks into fat/protein burning mode.

No. Roughly: your body burns some glycogen (if unfamiliar term, read
it as "stored carbs" for now) and some fat. The proportion varies
depending on your pace/effort - faster = more glycogen, slower = more
fat.

If you slowly jog 42 km you'll burn mucho fat and might finish with
some glycogen left over, at least if you're a well-trained runner
starting with a full tank. But *racing* that same 26.2 miles all out
demands a lot more glycogen, probably more than your muscles normally
store. Hence carb loading: it's an attempt to "supersaturate" yourself
with glycogen.

If you're still running a half marathon at the end of the month, you've
no need to worry about carb loading as long as you eat some normal
amount of carbs daily - you're not on Atkins are you?

Quoted message said:

Or, should runners have "prote loading" parties before races instead?

Protozoa loading: definitely not recommended, but get back to us if you
try it. Protein loading: only lanceandrew.

P.S. Please notify the group if and when you volunteer to work aid
stations at races. If someone with your name is mixing my gatorade, I
want to know about it.

There sre no stupid questions, only stupid people.

Quoted message said:

Protein loading: only lanceandrew.

_
thanks for the isolation cp.

in the interest of accuracy what i said was that on a daily basis, not
just for a singular event, i try to take in .75g of protein/.lb of body
weight.

why? in being 42 years old and running twice a day at 80%, 5 miles
each run, and 70+ miles per week and with my muscle mass &
weight...this all equates to a great way to "beat-up" my lower body,
its muscles, tendons, ligaments...in my
feet/calves/hips/knees...everywhere.

the protein is simply to combat & repair the wear-n-tear. call it an
effort to insure i have the stores in my body to be in a state of
perpetual maintainence & repair of that which gets torn down.

I would guess 60%-75% of this is whey protein from drinks like Isopure,
Myoplex, etc.

CP, you've posted way too many times, and have keyed in way too many
words....a day before a race like a 1/2. the running gods are going to
punish you...but good luck just the same.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all:

This is a probably a dumb question with no practical purpose, but here
goes...I've been reading up on running a marathon, and it seems like
"carbo loading" is a pre-race tradition. But I'm wondering why? It's
always been my understanding that, after the first 20 minutes or so of
a run, your body kicks into fat/protein burning mode.

It all depends on pace and conditioning. You have a fixed amount of
glycogen which is the flame that keeps you moving forward. Through
training, you try to teach your body to be more efficient with your
glycogen stores. The reason people carbo load is to insure their
glycogen stores are maxed. The secret is to find that fastest pace such
that you use that last ounce of glycogen as you cross the line.

You actually burn all three from the first step and if you don't go out
too hard the body warms up and you burn less glycogen or as you are
implying more fat and protein. Don't think for a second that there is
some magical switch or that it is an either/or use of fuel. Hopefully
you understand the concept of bonking. This is where your glycogen
stores closes in on zero and you are using fat as your primary fuel to
move you forward. This is not a pretty sight since you are relegated to
walking. If you want to see this in person I always suggest you find a
marathon, grab a chair and park yourself at mile 22 and watch those
people trying to burn only fat.

Quoted message said:

Now, if that's
the case, are the carbs just to get you through the first few miles?

Wrong, you need to do some reading on the physiology of running.

Quoted message said:

Or, should runners have "prote loading" parties before races instead?

Eat balanced. If this were true we would all be having egg white or
protein drink parties the night before a race.

Take a look at http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0974.htm It discusses
carbo loading but even more important glycogen.

-DF

Quoted message said:

If you want to see this in person I always suggest you find a
marathon, grab a chair and park yourself at mile 22 and watch those
people trying to burn only fat.

A couple of Boston bonkers for ya:
http://tinyurl.com/d3ayh
http://tinyurl.com/845rw

--
Phil M.

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:23:43 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all:

This is a probably a dumb question with no practical purpose, but here
goes...I've been reading up on running a marathon, and it seems like
"carbo loading" is a pre-race tradition. But I'm wondering why? It's
always been my understanding that, after the first 20 minutes or so of
a run, your body kicks into fat/protein burning mode.

It all depends on pace and conditioning. You have a fixed amount of
glycogen which is the flame that keeps you moving forward. Through
training, you try to teach your body to be more efficient with your
glycogen stores. The reason people carbo load is to insure their
glycogen stores are maxed. The secret is to find that fastest pace such
that you use that last ounce of glycogen as you cross the line.

Don't you mean "ensure", not "insure"? I don't ever recall taking out
a policy on my glycogen stores.

Quoted message said:

You actually burn all three from the first step and if you don't go out
too hard the body warms up and you burn less glycogen or as you are
implying more fat and protein. Don't think for a second that there is
some magical switch or that it is an either/or use of fuel. Hopefully
you understand the concept of bonking. This is where your glycogen
stores closes in on zero and you are using fat as your primary fuel to
move you forward. This is not a pretty sight since you are relegated to
walking. If you want to see this in person I always suggest you find a
marathon, grab a chair and park yourself at mile 22 and watch those
people trying to burn only fat.

I did that once. The 'bonking', I mean, not the watching.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now, if that's
the case, are the carbs just to get you through the first few miles?

Wrong, you need to do some reading on the physiology of running.

Quoted message said:

Or, should runners have "prote loading" parties before races instead?

Eat balanced. If this were true we would all be having egg white or
protein drink parties the night before a race.

Take a look at http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0974.htm It discusses
carbo loading but even more important glycogen.

-DF

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"carbo loading" is a pre-race tradition. But I'm wondering why?
It's always been my understanding that, after the first 20 minutes
or so of a run, your body kicks into fat/protein burning mode.

I have heard that numerous times over the years--in fact, I read
it in a Jeff Galloway "advice piece" from about 14 years ago, only his
time was more like the first 30 minutes. I assume that is why
all the machines I tried after my ankle surgery all flashed
"fat burning zone". I think you will find a lot of conflicting
information on this as I did when I started looking into it.

A few months ago, I saw a nutritionist because I wanted to
increase my miles, lower my triglycerides, lose 7lbs,
and increase my protein and iron intake in order to stop taking
iron supplements. She suggested that I increase my carbs
and calorie intake and referred me to two books by Nancy Clark.
In Clark's Food Guide for Marathoners, Clark writes that carbo loading
shouldn't just be a pasta dinner before the big race but should
be a daily thing for the reasons that other posters have mentioned.
She suggests that you continue doing it even during the tapering
period before the Marathon and warns that you may gain a few pounds
of water weight during this period but not to worry...

As for protein, she suggests .5-.75g per
pound of body weight. I stuck with those suggestions, lost 2lbs
and then stopped losing (wasn't gaining either). I was eating more
though but my runs were working well and my recovery from longer runs
was no problem-- until I stopped her suggestions.
(see below)

Charles said:

you're not on Atkins are you?

Small anecdote:
My doctor suggested the South Beach Diet when I saw him
last about my trigycerides and desire to lose around 7lbs...
(BMI is around 22).

Then a group of friends all wanted to go on it and one has a husband
who said he lost 20lbs on it and it didn't affect his running at all..
So, I got it in my head to try it.. It works.. I have lost
close to four pounds in less than five days because the Phase I
part is very Atkins like with highly restrictive carbs. I am
all egged, cheesed, and meated out (I used to eat meat rarely
if ever).

However, I am not well. I did fine on day 2 with a 6 mile run but
I was a little slower than my running partner who tends to be
the slower one.. Day 3, I bombed on my run. I thought that maybe
it was just a bad day... Day five is worse.. Sundays are my favourite
running days and the last two Sundays, I run around 16K (I could go
longer but I am trying to avoid injury to my ankle and build much
slower).
I didn't make it to 7K today. I was 3 minutes off my 5K time. Again,
I thought
it was just a "psychological blah" but when everything
went black and I hit the ground... :-) One phone call to my friend's
husband and I discovered something I probably should have inquired
more about... He runs every day.. and his weekly mileage is
10-12 miles. Oops!

Tonight I am making friends with that extra
pound (and probably 2 or 3 in water weight that I must have lost)
and eating a nice bowl of black sticky rice...

I guess that 60 dollars I paid my nutritionist wasn't
as foolishly spent as I thought.

Erika

Quoted message said:

As for protein, she suggests .5-.75g per
pound of body weight. I stuck with those suggestions, lost 2lbs
and then stopped losing (wasn't gaining either). I was eating more
though but my runs were working well and my recovery from longer runs
was no problem-- until I stopped her suggestions.

Eating more what? Were you exercising more. Somehow your calories burned
must have been greater than your calories eaten.

--
Phil M.

[email hidden] wrote:
cp>>Protein loading: only lanceandrew.

la> thanks for the isolation cp.

Aw, don't go pout. C'mon, who's your biggest fan on wreck.jogging?
Who else has promised you a bottle of vino if you whup Donovan? Who
else has declared you his manager?

Quoted message said:

in the interest of accuracy what i said was that on a daily basis
[...] i try to take in .75g of protein/.lb of body weight

Fair enough. And in the interest of clarity, I don't pull out the
calculator to figure this stuff out, but am virtually certain I take in
at least that much every day (easier for an animal-eater like moi) -
you get called out by name because you're the only one here who terms
it "protein _loading_" not "sensible eating".

Quoted message said:

running twice a day at 80%, 5 miles each run

First, my hat's off to you Lance for this effort day in day out.

Second, questions. Are your runs really all so similar? Is this
according to plan? Is your philosophy that the ideal is a couple 80%
runs a day; like maybe you get partial "tempo run" credit each time
because intensity is within shouting distance of LT pace yet just slow
enough that you can maintain it twice daily w/o totally breaking down?
Or is this just for a current base phase and you'll throw in more
variety to sharpen in the fall? You don't give a lot of weight to
"training monotony = injury and staleness factors" I take it?

Quoted message said:

CP, you've posted way too many times, and have keyed in way too
many words....a day before a race like a 1/2. the running gods
are going to punish you...but good luck just the same.

Thanks. They didn't get me too bad, race rpt coming up. And typing,
for me, is a pretty low-fatigue way to vent a little
no-running-for-60-hours nervous energy.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Charles said:

you're not on Atkins are you?

Small anecdote:
My doctor suggested the South Beach Diet when I saw him
last about my trigycerides and desire to lose around 7lbs...
(BMI is around 22).

Then a group of friends all wanted to go on it and one has a husband
who said he lost 20lbs on it and it didn't affect his running at all..
So, I got it in my head to try it.. It works.. I have lost
close to four pounds in less than five days because the Phase I
part is very Atkins like with highly restrictive carbs. I am
all egged, cheesed, and meated out (I used to eat meat rarely
if ever).

Not to start a diet war but all those diets to include Atkins, South
beach, even cabbage soup if followed will let you to lose weight.
Whether the diet is healthy and will provide you with the proper
calories to exercise is a different issue.

Nancy Clark is a solid nutritionist.

-DF

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all:

This is a probably a dumb question with no practical purpose, but here
goes...I've been reading up on running a marathon, and it seems like
"carbo loading" is a pre-race tradition. But I'm wondering why? It's
always been my understanding that, after the first 20 minutes or so of
a run, your body kicks into fat/protein burning mode. Now, if that's
the case, are the carbs just to get you through the first few miles?
Or, should runners have "prote loading" parties before races instead?

Jim

First I would say the need for a true carb loading would begin if one is
running a half marathon or longer.

I just wish everyone could get 1 hour of ex phys in science classes...your
body does not "switch" to burning fat (and uses very little protein under
most circumstances you will encounter). Glycogen is a fuel that is "burned"
more economically but is in short supply in the body. If you want to run
well, you need to use glycogen (stored carbs). Fat just cannot provide
energy fast enough on a short race although it will contribute even in a
race as short as a 5K or a 3K.

Protein loading would be a silly idea. Fat loading however for ultra
endurance might have some merit!

Quoted message said:

But *racing* that same 26.2 miles all out
demands a lot more glycogen, probably more than your muscles normally
store. Hence carb loading: it's an attempt to "supersaturate" yourself
with glycogen.

Makes sense--thanks for the explanation!

Quoted message said:

If you're still running a half marathon at the end of the month, you've
no need to worry about carb loading as long as you eat some normal
amount of carbs daily - you're not on Atkins are you?

I'm skipping the San Fran half marathon at the end of the month, and am
gearing up for one in Chicago in September. But no, no Atkins--I love
pasta too much. (C;

Quoted message said:

P.S. Please notify the group if and when you volunteer to work aid
stations at races. If someone with your name is mixing my gatorade, I
want to know about it.

As long as it's not purple gatorade, you're OK. :-D

I used to tell jokes, but my "punch lines" are too long.
HAHAHAHAHA...I kill myself.

Jim