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Discovery about recovery...

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
8 May 2004
Last activity
11 May 2004
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Qtrader
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11
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  1. I realized after my run today how effective my routine has
    become and I'm noting remarkable progress in my fitness this
    year as opposed to other years. Running less, cross-training
    on the bike, and resting alot more than I ever did before
    has completely revamped my exercise program, and has
    improved my running fitness greatly compared to other years.

    Right now I'm doing a cyclical program of running, followed
    by biking the next day, followed by a day of either full
    rest or a walk of a few miles at a casual pace. I just
    repeat this cycle over and over, but if the weather is
    particularly bad or something I take another day off. I vary
    my running and cycling times between an hour and two hours,
    depending on how I feel and what I did the previous time. I
    do fartlek runs for speedwork, and I also do longer runs and
    bike rides ever 10 days to 2 weeks. Since biking and running
    don't use exactly the same muscles, it allows at least 2
    days rest between runs and bike rides, which is amazing in
    its effects.

    My heart rate and running times for training runs have
    dropped far faster and with less effort than with any other
    training program I've tried in the past. I also have alot
    more power and no feelings of overuse in my legs. The main
    difficulty is in always being disciplined in taking the 3rd
    day off. When the day is beautiful and when the day off
    lands on a weekend its hard sometimes, but I've adjusted and
    now I just walk around the lake with friends or something
    and trust that my next run will be fuller and better with
    this type of recovery.

    In our evolutionary past, humans probably VERY rarely ran
    day after day after day after day. More likely if they were
    travelling they walked day after day.... To be sure long
    running efforts must have been required at times, but this
    would have been avoided day after day. I highly recommend
    reading "Protein Power Lifeplan" by Dr.s Eades, that
    explains the Paleolithic approach to exercise as well as the
    type of diet humans ate in the past. Reading about this and
    listening to my body and realizing that RECOVERY /
    IMPROVEMENT is the only goal of exercise led me to my
    current approach - so I decided to share it. Has anyone else
    found success in a similar approach?

    - Tony

  2. << Has anyone else found success in a similar approach?>>

    what you describe makes a lot of sense. i suppose one major
    challenge -- for some of us -- is dealing with the reduced
    brain neurotransmitter stimulation (aka: addiction to
    exercise) that a less-intensive program offers.

    \\ - - // ( @ @ ) +--------oOOo-(_)--oOOo----
    + +------------------------Oooo----+ oooO
    ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_

  3. In article said:

    I realized after my run today how effective my routine has
    become and I'm noting remarkable progress in my fitness
    this year as opposed to other years. Running less, cross-
    training on the bike, and resting alot more than I ever
    did before has completely revamped my exercise program,
    and has improved my running fitness greatly compared to
    other years.

    It's possible that you were overtraining before. It's hard
    to say much about your "after" program without seeing the
    "before" program.

    Most beginners make the mistake of doing their training runs
    way too hard (but still too easy to be effective for speed
    work). This creates a high risk of both overtraining and
    injury. To run every day, you do need to run most of your
    milage at a pace that does not overly tax the muscular
    system -- aerobic running. Avoiding running is one way to
    avoid taxing the muscular system, but another way is a
    combination of adapting to training load and maintaining an
    intensity that doesn't leave you beaten down.

    Quoted message said:

    past. I also have alot more power and no feelings of
    overuse in my legs.

    I get this just from peaking. For example, doing heavy
    training for a while, then bringing milage down. I feel more
    energetic on 40 miles per week than I did before on no
    training at all, because I adapted to 60 then dropped to 40.

    This is how you get to have your cake and eat it too. Sure,
    you can consistently do light training and this will produce
    fairly good results for a while. But adapting to heavy
    training and then reducing the load is historically what has
    produced some of the greatest race performances.

    Quoted message said:

    In our evolutionary past, humans probably VERY rarely ran
    day after day after day after day. More likely if they
    were travelling they walked day after day.... To be sure
    long running efforts must have been required at times, but
    this would have been avoided day after day. I highly
    recommend reading "Protein Power Lifeplan" by Dr.s Eades,
    that explains the Paleolithic approach to exercise as well
    as the type of diet humans ate in the past.

    Sorry, you've lost me here. I'm sure there's a good reason
    that your training protocol works *for you*, but your
    ambitious attempt to come up with some deep theory about the
    success of your program ignores the fact that there's no
    evidence that this training protocol works for anyone else.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflord

  4. qTrader said:

    I realized after my run today how effective my routine has
    become and I'm noting remarkable progress in my fitness
    this year as opposed to other years. Running less, cross-
    training on the bike, and resting alot more than I ever
    did before has completely revamped my exercise program,
    and has improved my running fitness greatly compared to
    other years.

    Right now I'm doing a cyclical program of running,
    followed by biking the next day, followed by a day of
    either full rest or a walk of a few miles at a casual
    pace. I just repeat this cycle over and over, but if the
    weather is particularly bad or something I take another
    day off. I vary my running and cycling times between an
    hour and two hours, depending on how I feel and what I did
    the previous time. I do fartlek runs for speedwork, and I
    also do longer runs and bike rides ever 10 days to 2
    weeks. Since biking and running don't use exactly the same
    muscles, it allows at least 2 days rest between runs and
    bike rides, which is amazing in its effects.

    <snip>

    I can identify with this. Every time I start heading into
    25+ miles/week territory, my body starts complaining. Back
    off, mix it up a little, and life is good. I won't get any
    faster or stronger this way, but maybe something's trying to
    tell me to relax and enjoy life instead of continually
    seeking this or that performance boost.

    --
    ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,-
    ,ø¤º eNo "If you can't go fast, go long." ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°-
    `°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º

  5. Donovan Rebbechi said:

    Sorry, you've lost me here.

    Come on Donovan. Is a spammer *that* hard to spot?

    Tim

    --
    Remove the obvious to reply by email.

  6. Virginiaz wrote in message <20040506235013.18279.00000745@mb-
    m23.aol.com>...

    Quoted message said:

    << Has anyone else found success in a similar approach?>>

    what you describe makes a lot of sense. i suppose one major
    challenge --


    for

    Quoted message said:

    some of us -- is dealing with the reduced brain
    neurotransmitter


    stimulation

    Quoted message said:

    (aka: addiction to exercise) that a less-intensive
    program offers.


    Yes, this is a good point. While I still feel addicted to
    exercise, it's no longer in the same slavish way of going
    out and slogging through long boring road miles day after
    day. I run trails almost exclusively these days, which is
    must more stimulating.

    Quoted message said:

    \\ - - // ( @ @ ) +--------oOOo-(_)--oOOo----
    + +------------------------Oooo----+ oooO
    ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_

  7. Tim,

    Gotta learn to tell the difference between spam and troll!

    :-)
    Larry

    Tim Downie <[email hidden]> writes:
    : Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

    :> Sorry, you've lost me here.

    : Come on Donovan. Is a spammer *that* hard to spot?

    : Tim

    : --
    : Remove the obvious to reply by email.

  8. Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    qTrader said:

    I realized after my run today how effective my routine
    has become and I'm noting remarkable progress in my
    fitness this year as opposed to other years. Running
    less, cross-training on the bike, and resting alot more


    than

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I ever did before has completely revamped my exercise
    program, and has improved my running fitness greatly
    compared to other years.

    It's possible that you were overtraining before. It's hard
    to say much


    about your

    Quoted message said:

    "after" program without seeing the "before" program.

    Most beginners make the mistake of doing their training
    runs way too hard


    (but

    Quoted message said:

    still too easy to be effective for speed work). This
    creates a high risk of both overtraining and injury. To run
    every day, you do need to run most of


    your

    Quoted message said:

    milage at a pace that does not overly tax the muscular
    system -- aerobic


    running.

    Quoted message said:

    Avoiding running is one way to avoid taxing the muscular
    system, but


    another way

    Quoted message said:

    is a combination of adapting to training load and
    maintaining an intensity


    that

    Quoted message said:

    doesn't leave you beaten down.

    I'm now 41 and 've been running since I was 14 playing
    soccer. I concur with what you say here about the mistakes
    beginners make. I learned about training in the aerobic zone
    a long time ago, and when I was doing alot of orienteering
    races I ran nearly everyday for a number of years through my
    late 20's. After that I ran recreationally for much of my
    30's and in the last 5 years I've been entering some
    orienteering races again, and I bike and run singletrack
    trails for enjoyment. I dont run much on roads and don't do
    road races anymore either because I enjoy trails. My
    training before the variation I posted here was also cross-
    training, but with only an occasional day off a week as
    opposed to two solid days off. Everyone has different goals
    and different training needs and my post was just a report
    about experimenting and about something I think is hard to
    learn - that recovery is the key to improvement. If there is
    one thing I've learned its that.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    past. I also have alot more power and no feelings of
    overuse in my legs.

    I get this just from peaking. For example, doing heavy
    training for a


    while,

    Quoted message said:

    then bringing milage down. I feel more energetic on 40
    miles per week than


    I

    Quoted message said:

    did before on no training at all, because I adapted to 60
    then dropped to


    40.

    Quoted message said:


    This is how you get to have your cake and eat it too.
    Sure, you can


    consistently

    Quoted message said:

    do light training and this will produce fairly good results
    for a while.


    But

    Quoted message said:

    adapting to heavy training and then reducing the load is
    historically what


    has

    Quoted message said:

    produced some of the greatest race performances.

    What you describe above is tapering, and yes, I've
    experienced the same thing with that. My training is now
    done at a slightly higher intensity than in the past, but
    with more rest in between efforts. Actually my total
    exercise time is up 20% over last year too, so what I'm
    doing is not "consistently light" training. I'm not
    suggesting that what I do will work for everyone, but I'm
    only suggesting that one can experiment and learn from
    listening to their body's ability to recover and adjust
    their program accordingly.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    In our evolutionary past, humans probably VERY rarely ran
    day after day after day after day. More likely if they
    were travelling they walked day after day.... To be sure
    long running efforts must have been required at times,
    but this would have been avoided day after day. I highly


    recommend

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    reading "Protein Power Lifeplan" by Dr.s Eades, that
    explains the Paleolithic approach to exercise as well as
    the type of diet humans ate


    in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the past.

    Sorry, you've lost me here. I'm sure there's a good reason
    that your


    training

    Quoted message said:

    protocol works *for you*, but your ambitious attempt to
    come up with some


    deep

    Quoted message said:

    theory about the success of your program ignores the fact
    that there's no evidence that this training protocol works
    for anyone else.

    Hey its just food for thought, or have you learned all you
    wish to learn already? I saw this post called spam I suppose
    because of my reference to a book here. Well I don't
    subscribe to everything in that or any other book, but I
    found that section on exercise intriguing. As a natural born
    sprinter who enjoys longer distance events I have my work
    cut out for me, so I'm always learning and experimenting.
    I'm not trying to propose a deep theory; just sharing a
    program that works for me, and suggesting that it might be
    worth experimenting with for others. In all the books I've
    read about exercise, recovery seems to be the thing that is
    key to improvement, but is the hardest thing to optimize.

    To show im not spamming the other book i'll mention a few
    other ones I consider great reads here:

    "Precision Heart Rate Training", Edmund R. Burke ed.
    "Training Lactate Pulse-Rate" Peter G.J.M. Janssen "Slow
    Burn" Stu Mittleman

    Quoted message said:


    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflord

  9. "qTrader" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    I realized after my run today how effective my routine has
    become and I'm noting remarkable progress in my fitness
    this year as opposed to other years. Running less, cross-
    training on the bike, and resting alot more


    than

    Quoted message said:

    I ever did before has completely revamped my exercise
    program, and has improved my running fitness greatly
    compared to other years.

    <snip training info>

    Quoted message said:

    Has anyone else found success in a similar approach?

    I have always found that my best race results came when my
    training included cross-training, but not really in a
    'recovery' sense - I was going to the pool with a friend who
    understand proper swim training and doing sets much like
    running's interval training. I also was cycling quite a bit.

    I think this simply has a lot to do with getting the heart
    rate up there more often.

    cheers,
    --
    David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
    insecure people are the ones you see putting other people
    down constantly."

  10. qTrader said:

    I'm only suggesting that one can experiment and learn from
    listening to their body's ability to recover and adjust
    their program accordingly.

    Yes. This is a common mantra of some of the more experienced
    runners here. Know thy recovery.

    Dot just a beginner trail runner

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
    Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

  11. "Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    qTrader said:

    I'm only suggesting that one can experiment and
    learn from
    listening to their body's ability to recover and
    adjust their


    program

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    accordingly.

    Yes. This is a common mantra of some of the more
    experienced


    runners

    Quoted message said:

    here. Know thy recovery.

    A-bleepin-men!!!! When in doubt ask the injured, overtrained
    and burned out. All this type A base, power, speed to run
    further and faster is just fine but the first ingredient to
    master should be REST. Yup, a carefully placed day off to
    bake cookies or watch movies or a short walk. Elites and
    elite wanna-be's need not respond.

    Just finished about 2 1/2 weeks of wonderful slow easy junk
    averaging about 25 miles. Rest is my drug of choice.

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]
    (remove the NOBS)

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