Disappointed with Shimano Durability

HawgNuggets said:

So far, the bottom bracket, rear cassette, and now the cranks have broken on the Dura Ace bike

- what exactly broke?

- why did they break ?

- pictures ?

- what part of cranks broke ? You said "cranks". That means both cranks broke. What occured to have both cranks break ?

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What exactly broke?
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I'm not exactly schooled on all the proper lingo, so please forgive me if my terminology isn't exactly correct.

On the rear cluster, the 1-2 paired gears were about to give out completely. There are something like five "spokes" holding the outer portion of the gear rings where the teeth are to the inner part. Four of those had completely broken, so that only one remained intact. It started making a funny noise when I was climbing, so thankfully the mechanic found it before I took a trip over the handlebars coming out of the saddle on a steep climb. He said he'd seen that happen only one other time in his many years of experience, but with only one portion broken. I did see the part, because he really wanted to show it to me. I had him replace it with Ultegra in the hopes that there is more material there and the thing would be a little beefier and stronger than the Dura Ace.

The bottom bracket started making noise. The mechanic said it was pitted and wasn't worth overhauling, so I had him replace it.

Fast forward a year or so, I started hearing a clicking noise on my last ride. I took the bike in to a different shop that could look at it sooner, and they tell me it needs a new crank. Apparently, it is only one side, and the splines are stripped/gone/whatever on the left side. So it sits in the shop while I wait for a replacement left-side crank.

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Why did they break ?
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Good question. When I called Shimano, I left the phone call feeling like a gorilla who hammers equipment, neglects the maintenance, or takes my bike to incompetent mechanics. I've taken the bike in for an annual tune-up, and it has gotten only slightly wet on a couple of rides when the fog started drizzling a little on me. Other than that, it's seen a life of entirely dry riding. I keep the chain well-lubed, and I keep the bike pretty clean. I don't race, I weigh 180 lbs, and I'm not exactly a road monster. I ride mostly solo and pretty much just for the fun of it.

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Pictures ?
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No. I guess I could ask for the left crank back when I get it from the shop, but I'm not sure what I'd do with it. I believe what they've told me.

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What part of cranks broke ? You said "cranks". That means both cranks broke. What occured to have both cranks break ?
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Left side. I guess I said "cranks" because the shop told originally "cranks", that I should replace both. But after I talked with Shimano and the shop again, they said only the left crank needed replacing. Again, everyone is insinuating that either the guy who did the bottom bracket a year back didn't tighten it up enough, or it came loose and I rode on it a bunch. Whatever, it started making a little noise on my last ride, so I took it into the shop, and now I am guilty of being a bike abuser. The guy who did the bottom bracket R&R supposedly was a mechanic on the pro circuit scene for many years, so I really don't question his competence. He seemed pretty thorough, conscientous, and knowledgable.

I would guess that I have put maybe 6k miles on the "new" bike at this point (avg. 30 miles per week). That estimate is probably on the high side. I'd guess double that mileage on my old bike (which incidentally I've ridden through much worse weather).

Shimano replaced my 3 month old Ultegra 9 right shifter when it froze. I mailed it to them and they gave me a replacement no question with quick shipping.

You should learn to do most maintenance yourself. But yeah I don't replace BBs myself either.

I dunno, I change my bottom brackets over every year at the end of the season, usually at the same time I do my chain. When I used to run Campy square tapers I'd take them out and clean the bottom bracket shell a couple of times during the season. Now with external cups, I'll break them down pretty much every time they go out in the wet. Takes 15 minutes give or take, to break down, clean the [censored] out, regrease, reapply teflon tape and put it all back together.

For sealed cartridge bottom brackets I don't ever really expect to get more than 5-6,000k out of them. Much like changing my tires well before they are bald and falling to pieces I just see it as simple preventative maintenance.

I've never seen a spider on a cassette fail, even if it broke completely it's not going to send you over the bars, the bottom 6-7 cogs are not on the spider and are all independant. Having said that the only way I could think of that this would occur is that you didn't have the cassette on tighly enough at the specified torque of about 40Nm.

Even if you did one decently long ride on a loose crank you'd stand a good chance of chewing out the crank arm, doesn't matter what you are running, campag, isis, octalink the result will be the same. I'd suspect it was loose enough to be doing dame well before you heard a noise and took it to the shop.

Essentially I'd say you haven't looked after your gear, haven't serviced it regularly enough and are suprised at the result.

--brett

JTE83 said:

You should learn to do most maintenance yourself. But yeah I don't replace BBs myself either.

I'd probably tackle all the maintenance on my own if I had more time. Family, commute, career, workouts... there's not a lot of time left over once I factor in workout time. For now, it's just easier to drop a bike off somewhere and pay the tab.

sideshow_bob said:

I dunno, I change my bottom brackets over every year at the end of the season, usually at the same time I do my chain. When I used to run Campy square tapers I'd take them out and clean the bottom bracket shell a couple of times during the season. Now with external cups, I'll break them down pretty much every time they go out in the wet. Takes 15 minutes give or take, to break down, clean the [censored] out, regrease, reapply teflon tape and put it all back together.

For sealed cartridge bottom brackets I don't ever really expect to get more than 5-6,000k out of them. Much like changing my tires well before they are bald and falling to pieces I just see it as simple preventative maintenance.

I've never seen a spider on a cassette fail, even if it broke completely it's not going to send you over the bars, the bottom 6-7 cogs are not on the spider and are all independant. Having said that the only way I could think of that this would occur is that you didn't have the cassette on tighly enough at the specified torque of about 40Nm.

Even if you did one decently long ride on a loose crank you'd stand a good chance of chewing out the crank arm, doesn't matter what you are running, campag, isis, octalink the result will be the same. I'd suspect it was loose enough to be doing dame well before you heard a noise and took it to the shop.

Essentially I'd say you haven't looked after your gear, haven't serviced it regularly enough and are suprised at the result.

--brett

Well then, I guess I got about half the life out of my BB that you'd expect, I really don't know what torque my cluster was at since I didn't take out a torque wrench and go over every single component when I had the bike delivered to me. Yeah, sounds like the crank arm must not have been rock solid for that to happen. I'll make a mental note to check that every few months from now on. And yes, I'm surprised that the BB and cluster went like that. I don't think there's a darned thing I could have done about those two other than rebuilding my bike every few rides. And maybe not even then. The BB wasn't horribly expensive, just surprised me that it had such a short life.

At least the components are nice to ride.

HawgNuggets said:

Well then, I guess I got about half the life out of my BB that you'd expect, I really don't know what torque my cluster was at since I didn't take out a torque wrench and go over every single component when I had the bike delivered to me. Yeah, sounds like the crank arm must not have been rock solid for that to happen. I'll make a mental note to check that every few months from now on. And yes, I'm surprised that the BB and cluster went like that. I don't think there's a darned thing I could have done about those two other than rebuilding my bike every few rides. And maybe not even then. The BB wasn't horribly expensive, just surprised me that it had such a short life.

The life span of a BB depends on a number of things including how it's serviced during it's life and the conditions that it's ridden in. As an example ride in the wet a lot and don't service it at all and you'd expect the functional life to be much shorter. I've had MTB BB's fail after 2-3000 kilometers when they been ridden in pretty muddy conditions and I've been slack in servicing them.

Having said that I don't think 'rebuilding' your bike every few rides is necessary. I do think servicing it regularly as in basic servicing every month and a more detailed one every other month is a requirement if you are riding regularly and you have nice components like DA on your bike. That would include items like the cassette. You don't need to be at exactly 40Nm but if your are riding with a lose cassette you're going to kill both the cassette and the freehub. What you are saying is that you've had the bike for 4 years and haven't checked the cassette once and somehow the burden of responsibility in the failure of the part falls to Shimano?

Seriously, we have had a lot of rain in Sydney in the last month. Friday I rode to work in the rain and then back home in worse conditions. Saturday I did about 3 hours out in the rain in the morning and Sunday while it wasn't raining it was wet when I raced. Sunday afternoon I decided to clean both my MTB which I commute on and my 'wet weather' road bike. The total time to clean both bikes with detergent, break down the cranks/bottom brackets and clean and reassemble, clean the chain, remove the cassette and clean, remove the freehub body clean and grease was about 1h15m .. for 2 bikes.

The bottom line is if you want your gear to last, take care of it. If you don't want to take care of it, then you can't really complain when you kill it.

--brett

HawgNuggets said:

I have two bikes. One is celebrating it's 25th birthday and is equipped with Campagnolo record components. The other is not quite 4-years-old, and has Dura Ace. So far, the bottom bracket, rear cassette, and now the cranks have broken on the Dura Ace bike.

My Campagnolo-equipped bike is still going strong with not a single component problem in over two decades of riding. What gives? Is the new Campagnolo as good as the old, or do all the modern components fall apart regardless of manufacturer?

I'm going to be in the market for a new bike soon, and I am pretty disgusted with the lousy durability I've experienced Shimano gear. When I've called Shimano, they tell me "too bad". Apparently, two of the components were within warranty at the time they broke, but the guy I reached at Shimano back then discouraged me from sending them in, so I didn't bother to get the broken parts back from the shop.

What's people's experience with the newer Campagnolo components? Good or bad, I'd like to hear. Thanks.

I have BOTH Shimano & Campagnolo components ...

I'm sorry to say, but you were negligent (would you drive your car if lug nuts were loose?) ... AND WORSE, your bike shop's mechanic is responsible for the failure to get an in-warranty replacements.

To suggest that two-minute (EVEN half-hour ... or, hour-long) maintenance requires less time than going-to, waiting around, and subsequently picking-up your bike from a local shop is ludicrous.

I've said this before, presuming you (generic) don't have a physical handicap, only people who are surgeons OR hand models should avoid working on their bikes ... of course, people who have spouses who will do the work for them don't have to. AND, in that vein, while Donald Trump, if he rode, might not do his own bike maintenance, but I'm sure he would know how to do it.

WHAT? You don't have any "quiet time" away from the OTHER obligations of the week when you can work on your bike? Do yourself (and, your wallet) a favor & find another bike shop to do your maintenance IF you choose not to do the work.

BTW. There is nothing wrong with Shimano's components. AND, in North America, their customer service is as good as anyone elses -- they have ALWAYS responded quickly to the minor problems I've encountered & replaced components without hesitiation.

As far as the spider on your cassette failing, I would guess (without knowing the mileage) that if it was clearly a flaw in the spider/rivets, that if the teeth on the cogs indicated under 3000 miles of use (an arbitrary number that I have chosen), that Shimano would probably have replaced the cassette. On the other hand, if the cassette showed a lot of use-and-abuse (do you ever wipe your bike off after riding in wet conditions?), then they probably wouldn't.

Regardless, I think you should opt for the Campagnolo components on your next bike because I know you & your bike mechanic(s) will probably be able to exploit the minor design flaw in the Ultra Torque crank, and I want to be able to know that I was "right" about it!

http://www.bamacyclist.com/articles/maintenanceschedule.htm

Is this a reasonable maintenance schedule based on, say, 1500-2000 miles per year? Is there anything missing? I can at least run the checks and have someone look at it if I find issues early.

Based on the feedback, I'd say that modern components need closer monitoring than I've given to my bike. I do keep it clean, and it is a rarity for it to get wet other than some of my sweat. But I generally haven't done much with the bike between annual tune-ups at a shop except for tires, chain lube, minor tweeks, and keeping it clean.

That's all I've ever done with my old bike, and I rode it through a lot worse conditions for years, and I've never had a problem. More durable stuff, the tradeoff being weight and lesser performance. Maybe it was assembled better to begin with.

I can appreciate that you all are passionate about bicycle maintenance. Right now, it's a check box item for me. Maybe when the kids are grown, I'll sit down and take the time to do it on my own. But what is easy to someone who has done something a dozen times will not be easy to someone who has never done it. I'd rather spend my time on the bike than adjusting it. Going through this particular learning curve isn't something that I'm interested in doing right now. I could mow my own lawn, but I pay someone else to do it. I could probably do a better job, break fewer sprinklers, but I'd give up four hours out of every weekend. I feel the same way about maintaining my bike, my car, the paint on my house... you get the idea.