D/A over ultegra??

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Kaboom
Ok people, i've heard several people saying that the difference between ultegra and D/A is huge, and other people saying that it is impossible to notice
Will u people make up your mind??

Then why does shimano make them both? The DA shifters are probably the best part. Unfortunately, on built bikes one does not get to pick and choose.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Kaboom
Ok people, i've heard several people saying that the difference between ultegra and D/A is huge, and other people saying that it is impossible to notice
Will u people make up your mind??

This is my experience. I have full Dura Ace, my wife has Ultegra. I know the Dura Ace is lighter but in my opinion the Ultegra shifts smoother. I will let someone else debate durability.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by jhuskey
This is my experience. I have full Dura Ace, my wife has Ultegra. I know the Dura Ace is lighter but in my opinion the Ultegra shifts smoother. I will let someone else debate durability.

It looks like you and Boudreaux may have a disagreement as to which one shifts better...

I like to know for sure because I'm building a bike..and right now I'm leaning toward using the DA shifter...but all other parts are Ultegra

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Rudy
It looks like you and Boudreaux may have a disagreement as to which one shifts better...

I like to know for sure because I'm building a bike..and right now I'm leaning toward using the DA shifter...but all other parts are Ultegra

There is a difference between smooth and precise. I have smooth shifters.DA is more precise.It's also subjective, and you probably need to try them yourself.

When I read threads like this (even though I know it is probably infered) I feel that everyone is ignoring the pink elephant sitting in the corner.

DA'04 is way better than ultegra.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by yamaha_mike
When I read threads like this (even though I know it is probably infered) I feel that everyone is ignoring the pink elephant sitting in the corner.

DA'04 is way better than ultegra.

I'm color blind!! 😄

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by yamaha_mike
When I read threads like this (even though I know it is probably infered) I feel that everyone is ignoring the pink elephant sitting in the corner.

DA'04 is way better than ultegra.

I don't have a money printing machine.

yeah, 04 dura ace is much better than ultegra. works better, lighter action, and will last longer.

I prefer DA over Ultegra.

I had Ultegra on a Trek and the STI's were worn out in a couple years (~10,000 miles) where my DA that I now use have gone that far plus some and feel way better than the Ultegra did at this mileage. I felt the Ultegra had to be overshifted to get into an easier gear and wasn't as crisp as the DA is. They may have improved Ultegra since I bought my Trek 2300 in 1995 but I can tell you that I won't go back, especially for only a few hundred dollars difference.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by John Wolff
I prefer DA over Ultegra.

I had Ultegra on a Trek and the STI's were worn out in a couple years (~10,000 miles) where my DA that I now use have gone that far plus some and feel way better than the Ultegra did at this mileage. I felt the Ultegra had to be overshifted to get into an easier gear and wasn't as crisp as the DA is. They may have improved Ultegra since I bought my Trek 2300 in 1995 but I can tell you that I won't go back, especially for only a few hundred dollars difference.

95 ultegra was 8 speed ancient history. At least try comparing apples to apples.

The shifting with DA, when it is dialed-in correctly, is much more crisp, precise, and smooth than Ultegra. I have DA on my bike right now and I love it - however, if I had to, I could be perfectly happy with Ultegra.

That said, the best part about DA is, as previously mentioned, the shifters. Most specifically, the left (front) shifter. Instead of just the one trim-stop offered on an ultegra, Dura Ace has many tiny little trim settings to fine tune the position of the front derailleur so that it won't rub the chain. The reason this is so great is that if your cable stretches or is out of adjustment for some reason, the ultegra shifter may not adjust the derailleur correctly to eliminate rub.

Now to the bottom bracket... 04 DA excluded, if your frame does not have holes in it to drain water or if you are a low-maintenance type person who doesn't want to pull out your seatpost after a wet ride to drain water out or you don't feel like having your BB overhauled every few months to keep it smooth; go with Ultegra for the BB. The Dura Ace BB is not a sealed mechanism and as Shimano readilly admits, is only designed for racers who have mechanics to overhaul the gear every night if need-be. Granted, the DA is 1/2 the weight of the Ultegra - but as a durability issue, I'd rather have a few extra grams on my bike that I know I don't have to constantly maintain. Although, a well maintained, well adjusted Dura Ace BB is a thing of beauty.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by PSR
The shifting with DA, when it is dialed-in correctly, is much more crisp, precise, and smooth than Ultegra. I have DA on my bike right now and I love it - however, if I had to, I could be perfectly happy with Ultegra.

That said, the best part about DA is, as previously mentioned, the shifters. Most specifically, the left (front) shifter. Instead of just the one trim-stop offered on an ultegra, Dura Ace has many tiny little trim settings to fine tune the position of the front derailleur so that it won't rub the chain. The reason this is so great is that if your cable stretches or is out of adjustment for some reason, the ultegra shifter may not adjust the derailleur correctly to eliminate rub.

Now to the bottom bracket... 04 DA excluded, if your frame does not have holes in it to drain water or if you are a low-maintenance type person who doesn't want to pull out your seatpost after a wet ride to drain water out or you don't feel like having your BB overhauled every few months to keep it smooth; go with Ultegra for the BB. The Dura Ace BB is not a sealed mechanism and as Shimano readilly admits, is only designed for racers who have mechanics to overhaul the gear every night if need-be. Granted, the DA is 1/2 the weight of the Ultegra - but as a durability issue, I'd rather have a few extra grams on my bike that I know I don't have to constantly maintain. Although, a well maintained, well adjusted Dura Ace BB is a thing of beauty.

You adjust for cable stretch with the inline adjuster, not the trim function in the shifter. If the derailer is out of adjustment,readjust it. That is not what trim in the shifter is about...Check your facts on BB weight.The DA weighs 173g and the ultegra is 222. Hardly a 50% difference. The DA BB also has perfectly adequate seals.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
You adjust for cable stretch with the inline adjuster, not the trim function in the shifter. If the derailer is out of adjustment,readjust it. That is not what trim in the shifter is about...Check your facts on BB weight.The DA weighs 173g and the ultegra is 222. Hardly a 50% difference. The DA BB also has perfectly adequate seals.

How about the 04 DA BB? I think he meant 04 DA BB

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Rudy
How about the 04 DA BB? I think he meant 04 DA BB

Read it again.... '04 DA BB excluded'

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
You adjust for cable stretch with the inline adjuster, not the trim function in the shifter. If the derailer is out of adjustment,readjust it. That is not what trim in the shifter is about...

I was just referring to mid-ride adjustments. I've been wrenching for 10 years and I won't stop in the middle of a ride to adjust that if the inline adjuster won't do the trick. Plus, as someone who has worked as a professional mechanic, I know there are people out there who just shouldn't be messing with their inline adjusters. Besides, this is just an online forum, not the gospel.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
Check your facts on BB weight.The DA weighs 173g and the ultegra is 222. Hardly a 50% difference. The DA BB also has perfectly adequate seals.

A little overstated on weight difference. Sorry. As for the seals, I've seen a DA BB come out of a Ti frame after being a couple inches in water for a while and after an overhaul it ran fine. I've also seen DA BB's come out of steel frames with adequate drainage and meticulous owners that are just shot. Because of that, my new Dura Ace Waterford R-33 got an Ultegra BB. personal preference based on what I've seen and what Shimano says about their product.

I'm not trying to turn this into a standoff - just defending my comments.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by PSR
I was just referring to mid-ride adjustments. I've been wrenching for 10 years and I won't stop in the middle of a ride to adjust that if the inline adjuster won't do the trick. Plus, as someone who has worked as a professional mechanic, I know there are people out there who just shouldn't be messing with their inline adjusters. Besides, this is just an online forum, not the gospel.

A little overstated on weight difference. Sorry. As for the seals, I've seen a DA BB come out of a Ti frame after being a couple inches in water for a while and after an overhaul it ran fine. I've also seen DA BB's come out of steel frames with adequate drainage and meticulous owners that are just shot. Because of that, my new Dura Ace Waterford R-33 got an Ultegra BB. personal preference based on what I've seen and what Shimano says about their product.

I'm not trying to turn this into a standoff - just defending my comments.

If you have cable stretch it won't shift right. Alot of DA BB issues are the result of poor installation. Maybe you don't worry about what you say being incorrect or misleading,but I do. So whaterver.

My experience with Dura Ace is limited, but I've always thought the difference between it and Ultegra was a little tough to discern. There's definitely value to getting first-hand experience with both, but unless you're really scientific about the setup, even hands-on testing can be misleading (shifting and braking action can feel so different according to maintinence and setup, after all).

I think we all end up augmenting our personal experience with word of mouth, and a little trust in the manufacturers. I'm willing to believe that DA is probably at least a little more precise and perhaps more durable than Ultegra. Given that, it's about money -- how much I'm willing to spend for how much potential gain. Right now, I'm taking the plunge.

So, is there a big improvement on the '04 DA BB over the '03? Would you still recommend using the Ultegra in this case?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by khari
So, is there a big improvement on the '04 DA BB over the '03? Would you still recommend using the Ultegra in this case?

In the case of the 04,the carank and BB are a unit. No picking and choosing.