lisandom said:
The whole of last year.
Although, having said that: riding the bike is nearly always fun (whether it's structured training or JRA).
ric
Cyclo-Core...any users out there?
- Thread starter lisandom
- Start date
The whole of last year.
Although, having said that: riding the bike is nearly always fun (whether it's structured training or JRA).
ric
I can't comment on the Cyclo-core program, but I can say that cycling did absolutely zero to help my core stability. When I first went to the pt regarding my back pain, I couldn't even turn on most of my core muscles no matter how hard I tried. I was stabilising myself using the outer muscles which meant I was stable in one position, but to move from that position I would have to release those muscles, move and then retighten them. This made my movements very jerkys and my hips were far from being stable even when walking. I fail to see how riding with such an unstable core can not be wasting power. If you push your leg down against the pedal and the hip on that side moves up, power must be wasted.
In regards to the Cyclo-core program, unless you have your basic core stability in order, the program will provide no benefit. Getting your basic core stabilty in order can be a difficult task, especially if you have suffered from some trauma such as a back injury or abdominal surgery as these traumas essentially switch off the core muscles, which will then need to be retrained to work. I found the process of getting my core back into a reasonable condition a very difficult, long and frustrating process. At this stage it has take me about two years.
In regards to the Cyclo-core program, unless you have your basic core stability in order, the program will provide no benefit. Getting your basic core stabilty in order can be a difficult task, especially if you have suffered from some trauma such as a back injury or abdominal surgery as these traumas essentially switch off the core muscles, which will then need to be retrained to work. I found the process of getting my core back into a reasonable condition a very difficult, long and frustrating process. At this stage it has take me about two years.
xbgs351 said:
You are correct, the explanation for these problems is that natural pedalling uses the lower back and bodyweight for resistance purposes, so the hip will have some upward movement. This is also the root cause of cycling's back pain. The solution lies in using the hip itself to supply the resistance while using as much arm resistance as is necessary to retain the hip in a fixed stable position. But this requires a very different pedalling technique (Anquetil's linear style) and it's too difficult to get the correct explanation of this completely different yet simple technique across to people on a forum. A demonstration will soon be available if any researchers are interested.
ric_stern/RST said:
Ric/Andy/someone else with actual data - what %age of riders would have a functional problem that necessitates some form of strengthening/stabilising at a given point in time? What %age would need it over the course of their careers?
It seems obvious that in the absence of a functional issue, you won't benefit from non-specific strengthening exercises, but I also see a lot of riders who do longer races - and therefore high volume training - suffering from minor knee/back/hip issues that improve with specific, professionally prescribed exercises (myself included). From a coaching/training perspective it would make a fair difference to know if these issues occur in 0.1% of the population or 10%, or if beyond a certain volume they become increasingly prevalent? Also what is the breakup between issues attributable to incorrect positioning versus issues attributable to lack of functional strength/flexibility/stability?
Cheers,
RS
I doubt anyone has any real figures here. My guess is that the vast majority of cyclists have substantial core weaknesses. My reason for feeling this is this is core weaknesses is the case with most athletes in other sports whenever anyone looks for this and the fact the the core is pretty much ignored by most cyclists and, as evident from this thread, most cycling coaches.Roadie_scum said:
The fact it is ignored by everyone now may be "evidence" to some "the core" is not important but it certainly is not very good evidence nor any where close to proof of same.
Frank
The core are those muscles that stabilize the spine and trunk or are connected to the spine. If the spine/trunk is not strong and stable then those muscles that are connect to this part of the body that work the extremities will be less effective than they otherwise would be.n crowley said:
Hardly anyone pays any attention to these muscles so, when tested, they tend to be substantially weaker than those in the extremities in almost everyone. It is this relative weakness I am referring to.
Good core strength and endurance should be the base upon which all other training is built, not an after thought, IMHO. In addition, an athlete with poor core strength is not only not performing up to his/her potential but is an injury waiting to happen.
Fday said:
Ok but it's the bracing of these muscles that gives them their strength and it is only when they are braced that they can give protection but you have to be in the correct position and using the correct technique for this to happen. All of which means if pedalling or weight lifting is done correctly you are also strengthening your core muscles and do not need additional exercises.
You can look like you have good technique with a weak core using compensatory (girdle) muscles. Serious weight lifters spend a lot of time working the core separately from lifting. There is a serious power lifting place that uses the PowerCranks bike primarily to strengthen the core and hamstrings. (There is a video of the owner talking about this on the web site if you are interested.) Some of these people have squatted over 900 lbs so I suspect their technique is pretty good yet they work on these muscles separately from just lifting.n crowley said:
If you are bracing the abdominal muscles to stabilize everything then you are increasing intra abdominal pressure when doing so and this would interfere with diaphragmatic motion, which hurts your ability to breath. Doesn't seem like a particularly efficient technique to me.n crowley said:
When you peddle your core aims to keep your hips still. People should use the proper method which is utilising the Transverse Abdominus (spelling??)n crowley said:
However, most people (Yeh, i know a generalisation but it's what I've seen from my experience and others) Use their Aductors to stabilise, which causes instability, lost power, sore back, knees bending in when squating and over-developed aductors.
You can't just say- You brace the correct muscles when you pedal, the only way to know if you are in fact bracing the correct muscle is by an Ultrasound.
Jono L said:
When I pedal, my arms and bracing action keep my hips still and in a fixed position. Using your core to keep your hips in position results in some power loss and a gradual sliding forward on saddle which for some riders needs frequent adjustment. I know by the strengthening effect it has on my back and the power it can produce that I am bracing the correct muscles. Using the core to stabilize also puts the lower back under continuous strain, increasing the risk of injury and pain. It all depends on the style of cleat you use and how you use it.
Ugh, if you are going to use your arms to stabilize your hips you somehow have to stabilize the parts between the hips and the arms. That can only be done using the core or the trunk/abdomen girdle muscles. I would love to know where you get the information that leads you to the conclusion that using the core will put "the lower back under continuous strain, increasing the risk of injury and pain" and why the type of cleat you use would have anything to do with this.n crowley said:
Fday said:
Yes are correct, you brace that whole area from hips to arms in the same way as a weight lifter does, but that is only to let resistance forces flow between arms and hips and not to supply vertical resistance to your type of vertical force pedalling or to support upper body weight. Research on back pain done in Israel in 1999 confirmed that pedalling puts the back under continuous strain but sadly for victims of this pain, the only solution they arrive at was the tilting downward of the saddle, which can lead to further problems. Other research has proved that the lower back is put under most stress if it is put under strain when in a seated leaning forward position. As you already know, when as young children riders are developing their natural pedalling styles, it has to be done without the use or advantages of cleats and that is the root of the problem. When eventually they get to use cleats, because of their already established pedalling style, they don't know how to use them for best advantage, if they did, clipless pedals would never have been invented.
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