Cyclists/elitism?

Why you are only worried about those who dont wave back? Maybe because you are an "elitist" that feels you deserve recognition.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by rclouviere [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Nice post. In a race-type atmosphere, I'm totally with you. I would never expect anyone to break their concentration. This would be the same in running races. However, in riding/running "normally", it is a different atmosphere.

As I stated - I'm not connected to the running world, so I can't make any comparisons. I'll take you at your word that you believe differences do exist. That said, even by your own words it wouldn't appear the differences are significan't -

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by rclouviere
My original point was the difference between runners and cyclists. It seems many, if not most runners, are supportive of even the most "unaccomplished" runner. However, many (not most) cyclists make newbies feels like they don't belong on the same road with them.

Translation: - many (if not most) runners are supportive of newbies - i.e. the majoirty of runners are not supportive
... or maybe the majority is supportive depending on your perception of what constitites "most"

Translation: - many (not most) cyclists make newbies feels like they don't belong - i.e. the majority of cyclists are supportive
... chosen words are definitive and do not leave open a possibility that the majority is not supportive.

Assuming for this dataless exercise that we spot you "if not most" for runners, then the majority of both communities is supportive of newbies. You're essentially pointing out that both are the same. Personally I think you're splitting hairs and/or allowing a very limited number of experiences (out of all the given participants) to cloud your perception. Just sayin'....

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by rclouviere [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

My original point was the difference between runners and cyclists. It seems many, if not most runners, are supportive of even the most "unaccomplished" runner. However, many (not most) cyclists make newbies feels like they don't belong on the same road with them.

This won't stop me from cycling, because I enjoy it. I guess it would just be nice to see a newbie working hard going up a hill, and hear cyclist say, "good job,"

Forgive me for name dropping here but my old club had a TDF winner and a rider who raced the TDF. I was a water carrier for these guys back in the day.
I can confidently say that both guys treated the less accomplished rider in an exactly the same manner as they treated pretenders like me, to the top competitors at the time.

And I found this to be the case with all of the top riders I rode with/against throughout my racing career. The reason why they were generally supportive I think is because they were interested in the sport generally.

I read a great comment by the late Greta Wetz who said that she admired the marathon runner who took 5-6 hours to run 26 miles more than she admired the runners who finished it in sub-3 hours. Her point was that it took far more heart, fortitude and toughness to run for 5-6 hours. I think that statement says it all.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

... and how exactly do you know in which atmosphere someone is riding? The point is that you cannot unless you stop and interview the other cyclist. The objective point of view is that you do not know what another cyclist is thinking or doing in their ride.

I remember when I was young and riding in groups. Even when I was racing. There was a lot of talking going on. Now I tend to only have conversations while stopped at lights or when helping with mechanicals. In either case it is easy to see those who are "elitists."

Years ago. I was pulling a group at well over 350w. Had about 6 miles to go to the next store. Some "elitist" thought he had the right to sit and back and complain that I was not holding a good enough line. The ride leader explained that the "elitist" had a choice of going to the front or being less vocal.

Years ago. On training rides I would often stop and help out with mechanicals. As soon as the mechanical was resolved the non-elite riders would insist on doing a lot of the work to get back up with the group. The more "elite" riders would demand that I pull them up.

Years ago. Before or during races it was common to talk to people. Find people to work with. For the "elite" it was all about them. For the non-elite it was all about the other guys.

Even now I can distinguish some of the "elites" from the non-elites.

---

Yes. Sometimes I am elitist.

Saying one person is an elitist is in itself an elitist action. Why is it even important to think about? Limerickman states pretty clearly that at the top levels of racing, elitism isn't defacto state. A best friend in NZ trains, rides with, has trained, and has pedaled with (and when I say ride with or has pedaled with) Olympic medalists in cycling, as well as TdF veterans, and other stellar cyclists. From his descriptions, they certainly don't care elitism about them.

Given there is no absolute or objective metric for determining who or who isn't an elitist, and given that defining someone as an elitist or not defining them as such contributes absolutely nothing of value to a ride, an after ride beer, or a forum, what's the point in wasting time figuring out who or who isn't an elitist according to some non-existent status? Politicians do the exact same thing when they brand someone "unpatriotic". This entire discussion is at the level of junior high or high school students (for those outside the US, those grade would cover ages from 12-ish to about 18. It's the certainly the opposite of useful or enlightening.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Saying one person is an elitist is in itself an elitist action. Why is it even important to think about?

That is the overwhelming perception that I am getting from some of these posts.

Anyway I suppose I have learned in review of this thread that I am evidently an elitist because:

• I chose to have a cassette with a 11 cog
  
• I do not always wave at people
  
• I do not always say hello
  
• I am not in the running community and they are all very nice and courteous people
  
• I do not always go out of the way to give the cycling newbie that warm cozy feeling
  
• I have an expensive tricked out bike or does it have to be priced right at $8000 to be an elitist? Mine is not quite that expensive so maybe that will lower my elitist credit score.
  

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

That is the overwhelming perception that I am getting from some of these posts.

Anyway I suppose I have learned in review of this thread that I am evidently an elitist because:

• I chose to have a cassette with a 11 cog
  
• I do not always wave at people
  
• I do not always say hello
  
• I am not in the running community and they are all very nice and courteous people
  
• I do not always go out of the way to give the cycling newbie that warm cozy feeling
  
• I have an expensive tricked out bike or does it have to be priced right at $8000 to be an elitist? Mine is not quite that expensive so maybe that will lower my elitist credit score.
  

Shame on you, Felt!

Say a dozen "Hail Armstrongs" and send me your fancy elitist bike......all will be forgiven.

[IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/ROTF.gif[/IMG]

Felt_Rider's elitist attitude is just one of many reasons that I never ride with him.

I struggled last night with my post to this fine community. Yesterday I reviewed the list of criteria stated by the guru's of personal behavior and proclaimed myself as an elitist. Sure, it is true that I do own a 11-28 cassette, I have a nice bike and I do wear brand name lycra at some point each day, but I must admit that I am poser.

I am ashamed and apologize to each of you for using the attributes of an elitist at noted on this thread. A real elitist probably would brag about pulling a group at "well over 350 watts." I am nothing more than a poser. A wannabe elitist.

No need to come clean... we pegged you for an interloper as soon as you mentioned 28. But better a granny than an elitist [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

A real elitist probably would brag about pulling a group at "well over 350 watts." I am nothing more than a poser. A wannabe elitist.

A few days ago I had just finished a hard effort through a complex traffic situation when a young woman pulled up next to me. Apparently she had drafted off of me through that section. She commented that she always worked hard there because it was a dangerous place to spend much time.

Then yesterday I watched 5 guys in matching Lycra do the same passage. Easy effort. Lots of talking. Hands on the tops. Sometimes only one hand. Double line of cars backed up behind them. Like they owned the road.

---

We are all elitists.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by An old Guy [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
Like they owned the road

Here in Boston we all own the road regardless of mode of transportation.
Driving with high beams? Making a U-turn across 4 lanes? Check
Walking across a street on 'Do not walk' blocking the traffic turning left (which is stuck in the middle of the intersection and blocks everyone else)? Check

Once I stopped at a red light and a cycling team came up from behind. They surrounded my car so when the light turned green I couldn't move off until they all did! I actually had my bike on a rear rack and was running late for a club ride. However I was obviously asking for it with my Apex 32t cog -- clearly visible.

I don't want to offend anyone and this is only my own opinion, I admit to be very new to this wonderful world of cycling and so far haven't had any run ins with a so call elitist, I ride alone most of the time and most of the people or groups I see riding by me they all say hi or simply nod their heads in a positive way, now what do I really think of the few or many elitist people out there, to be honest I wouldn't hesitate in telling them to their face listen here you knob I don't care how expensive your bike is or how experience you are you were not born on a bike and at some point in your life you were a newbee as well so take your [censored] elsewhere cause I don't want to hear you ranting about how great you are or think you are, to me you nothing but a muppet and a knob now [censored]... Sorry but that's how I feel, I rather be honest than a fake.😄

Iv'e been cycling for over 25 years now. I just love getting on the bike and riding. It could be a training, touring, commuting. I wish more people would get out of their stupid cars.

The arrogance I see today on bike paths, hills is just pathetic. Can I judge? I know it's wrong but for the majority we don't have cyclists anymore....just a bunch of egotistical humans on bikes. The ones that think every bike ride is a race. The one that won't even stop their pathetic meaningless rides to help a strandid cyclist or hiker. But humanity is changing and so is the "poser" cyclist.

As far as elitism...I was invited for some try outs on a semi pro, pro team in my 20's can't even remeber which one. I turned it down cause I knew I would just lose the love of cycling. I really feel sorry of the ones "trying" to be elite, they can't even see past their own work out and rides. No matter how much you try you'll never be a "cyclist".

It is humanity now. With all the communication devices out there to help us communicate, humans have lost the ability to communicate on a personal level.

I would love for people to get on bikes for all the right reasons but that's just not happening anymore so I would say just give up on the idea. I have.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by hogger453 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Iv'e been cycling for over 25 years now. I just love getting on the bike and riding. It could be a training, touring, commuting. I wish more people would get out of their stupid cars.

The arrogance I see today on bike paths, hills is just pathetic. Can I judge? I know it's wrong but for the majority we don't have cyclists anymore....just a bunch of egotistical humans on bikes. The ones that think every bike ride is a race. The one that won't even stop their pathetic meaningless rides to help a strandid cyclist or hiker. But humanity is changing and so is the "poser" cyclist.

As far as elitism...I was invited for some try outs on a semi pro, pro team in my 20's can't even remeber which one. I turned it down cause I knew I would just lose the love of cycling. I really feel sorry of the ones "trying" to be elite, they can't even see past their own work out and rides. No matter how much you try you'll never be a "cyclist".

It is humanity now. With all the communication devices out there to help us communicate, humans have lost the ability to communicate on a personal level.

I would love for people to get on bikes for all the right reasons but that's just not happening anymore so I would say just give up on the idea. I have.

By right reasons, you must mean the reasons that are ok with you.

When did you become able to read the minds of cyclists, and why are so concerned about why they ride? The fact is, you don't know why they ride or what they're thinking. You just have your very limited vision of what cyclists are like.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

By right reasons, you must mean the reasons that are ok with you.

When did you become able to read the minds of cyclists, and why are so concerned about why they ride? The fact is, you don't know why they ride or what they're thinking. You just have your very limited vision of what cyclists are like.

Definitly not think the ones OK with you. I vision the whole world cycling. 25 years of riding and I can see right through your post.

When's the last time you actually got on a bike and enjoyed a ride? Or stopped you precious training ride to help another in distress. Every ride has to be a team jearsey ride?

You rodies are so [censored] up in the head.

Definitly not think the ones OK with you. I vision the whole world cycling. 25 years of riding and I can see right through your post.

When's the last time you actually got on a bike and enjoyed a ride? Or stopped you precious training ride to help another in distress. Every ride has to be a team jearsey ride?

You rodies are so f***** in the head.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by hogger453 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Definitly not think the ones OK with you. I vision the whole world cycling. 25 years of riding and I can see right through your post.

When's the last time you actually got on a bike and enjoyed a ride? Or stopped you precious training ride to help another in distress. Every ride has to be a team jearsey ride?

You rodies are so f***** in the head.

Well, since you've brought it up, I make it a point to ask every cyclist I see stopped with a potential problem if they need help. It's one reason why I carry the number of CO2 cartridges I do. I've given away plenty of tubes, CO2, and cell phone use. I've done that whether I've been on a training ride, riding to work or to school, riding to the grocery store, or anywhere in general. Alas, I enjoy every ride on a bike, no matter whether that ride is training ride, a commute, an errand, a ride with my daughter, with a friend, or whatever. As it happens, I enjoy those rides 6-7 days a week. Thanks a lot for caring enough to ask.

How often do you actually engage in critical thought? It's apparent that you used absolutely none in your last post. As a matter fact, the acme of your intellectual power seems to of occurred when you typed "f*****". What an accomplishment. There's no doubt that your skills of wit and your wealth of intellect is the envy of many.

Why is it so important to you what people wear on ride? Why is it so important to you why people are on a given ride? You play the part of an elitist well. Does it come naturally? You state in another post, "The arrogance I see today on bike..." In that statement, are you referring to your own arrogance? You certainly seem to have that, what with how you assume you now why people are riding, what they're thinking, and so on.

Many of us on this forum have been riding at least as long as you. I'd wager there are more than a handful that have pedaled much more than you and don't see the evil that you see in "rodies".

You can say what you want my man. Forget about the psyc lesson please.

I get stranded every now and then and yet to even be offered a helping hand by a roadie.

Again, say what you want. Cycling is a way of life for me. I honostly don't give a hoot about who pedeled more. I'm on my bike of various types road, vintage, hybrid, etc, seven days a week.

Again, there is nothing you're gonna school me on this, not a hobby, not a sport but a way of life for me.

As soon as I see another cyclist I check his or her bike. If it ain't full carbon I just don't waste my time even talking to them. I mean...seriously? Steel? Aluminum? Sometimes I screw up and start chatting up somebody until I realize they have an aluminum fork and them I'm like, "yeah...well...see ya!" and blow past them like they are standing still. It's much easier to outrace them. Often they are too dumb to even know they are in a race! And don't get me started on road bikes equipped with spd pedals! LOOSER! I have to admit I have a hard time figuring out if they are using some silly saddle with steel rails. It happens and sometimes I'll let it pass. I like to stop and see if people need help regardless of the kind of bike they have because I just laugh and ride away after telling them they should take care of themselves. I think that shows I'm no bike snob! My favorite move is to holler "passing on your left" and then blast by on the right. Dang that's a hoot in heavy traffic if you time it right. I do loves me my cycling! 🙂 (tongue firmly embedded in cheek)