Cyclist rant

psycholist said:

They knew I was there. They just apparently didn't care.

That's possible.

OTOH, they may have figured there was no reason for you not
to pass. You say there was an intersection up ahead, and you
feared they'd turn in front of you. They (or actually, the
guy on the left) may have thought "Obviously I'm not going
to turn, since I'm not signaling." And they may have
wondered why you weren't passing.

Unless the cyclists were looking back at you and giving you
the finger, I'd say this is more likely a very minor
miscommunication, rather than an outright act of rudeness.
Admittedly, I wasn't there - but I've seen similar events
from various perspectives.

Hell, two days ago I had a motorist who backed up traffic by
refusing to pass me, despite having _plenty_ of room. They
passed only when I made insistent motions directing them to
do so. What were they thinking? I don't know. Perhaps they
were thinking something like what you were.

Look, to put this in context: Have you never walked through
a mall and had people obstruct you for a few seconds? Was
this really that much worse?

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

psycholist said:

You sound all high and mighty in the posts you've made on
this thread. Had you been there, you'd have clearly seen
that there was no excuse for this riders behavior.

From my perspective, most people are being quite calm. You
actually seem offended because we don't share your outrage.

But we don't share your outrage partly because we've seen
motorists unjustifiably outraged by our perfectly legal,
responsible riding. We're really not sure that this isn't
just another example. Sorry, but we weren't there.

Quoted message said:

He wasn't riding as far to the right as pracitcable by
ANY stretch of anyone's imagination.

You should understand that the law in almost all states is
not quite clear. Traffic laws generally state 1) bicyclists
are to ride as near to the right as practicable, and 2) they
shall ride no more than two abreast.

Obviously, those two statements are in conflict. It's
almost as if the legislators expected us to be reasonable
about this!

Quoted message said:

And don't try to tell me what I assume. I assume that
sharing the road is supposed to be just that ...
sharing. I'm a cyclist and I try to ride with
consideration for the cars that also are entitled to the
road. This particular cyclist that I encountered acted
like the road was all his and screw everybody else. I'm
learning from some of the unbelieveable posts on this
thread that there are a whole lot of you out there who
apparently feel all people in cars are evil and that
people on bicycles can do no wrong.

<sigh>

Think: If this 15 second incident is enough to really stress
you, then your life is very good indeed.

So relax.

Alternately, take a week and write down every time a
motorist drives less-than-perfectly. Meditate on the
relative number of incidents, and their potential
importance.

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

In article <[email hidden]>,

maxo said:

Apropo the "friendly" horn--I have one of those mini bike
bells mounted stealth-style on my quill stem (as to not
interfere with the oh-so-elegant looks of my road bike 😉)
and I find it to be indispensable when riding paths or
even passing riders on the street. A happy ping-piiiiiing
is much more jolly than a breathless "passing on the
left!". Highly recommended.

Maybe cars should be equipped with bells instead of horns
:-)

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Thu, 03 Jun 2004 00:44:27 -0400, <[email hidden]>,

Frank Krygowski said:

Alternately, take a week and write down every time a
motorist drives less-than-perfectly. Meditate on the
relative number of incidents, and their potential
importance.

Or count the seconds lost driving behind someone hunting for
a parking space. They're not signalling, keeping pace or
paying attention to traffic building behind them. They're
unpredictable and you generally can't pass them until
everybody else has passed you. Then you have to wait while
they figure out how to berth the damn scud.

Knowing now about all those homicidal drivers bent on
revenge it makes me worry for my life every time I think to
dare parallel parking.
--
zk

Rick Onanian said:

I'm often startled by even a minor blip from a horn, and
often offended, even if I think it wasn't supposed to be
offensive.

Anyone else notice that toward the end of a ride --
especially a long and/or hard ride -- the "startle response"
is greatly suppressed? More than a few times I've had yahoos
yell, honk, pass too close or whatever and I just sort of
look at them as they pull away without even a hint of a
flinch or emotion. Guess it's survival mode time...

Bill "wish I were always that calm and imperturbable" S.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Psycholist
I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as if they were reasonably experienced riders.
Bob C.

Have you ever heard the extression "All the gear and no idea".

Sounds like it suits you mobile obsticles.

"R15757" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<< ...Why don't you just move entirely into the opposing
lane as if you

were

Quoted message said:

passing a slow moving 8 ft wide tractor?

Wayne >>

Why doesn't the jackass just move over a few feet? What is
so f***ing precious about being on a bike that you can't
move over a few feet?

We move over because we can. If there is enough space in
the lane for the passing car and a skinny-ass bike, make
it work. It's righteous to act as if there were other
people on the planet besides yourself. Cooperate and make
room, if possible, and if not, take your lane and most
drivers will understand.

Robert

Thank God there's at least one reasonable person here who
understands!

Bob C.

"Patrick Lamb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

psycholist said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage
roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane
highways that

cuts

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

through our little area. There weren't any other cars on
the stretch of road I was traveling.

I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as
if they were reasonably experienced riders. They were
riding 2-abreast. They were

just

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dawdling along. The rider on the left was weaving all
over. We were approaching a crossroad, so I was afraid to
pass because, the way they

were

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

riding, I couldn't be sure they wouldn't make a turn
right in front of

me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Neither rider seemed interested in showing me any
consideration

whatsoever.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Despite the very open road, I had to just sit in behind
them and wait.

It's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not that it was any big deal to wait 15 seconds until we
got past that intersection, but I couldn't imagine being
THAT rude and inconsiderate of traffic.

I'd submit that it took you far longer to compose your
original post than it did to wait for those two rude,
inconsiderate riders to clear the intersection. And I'd
hate to guess what multiple of that 15 second delay you've
spent, let alone the rest of us, on follow-ups.

Based on the terrible, terrible anguish you've suffered by
being delayed for an entire 15 seconds on an otherwise
empty road, when you've chosen to live 20 miles away from
your job and regularly cycle to and from work... you're
being unreasonable. Maybe you need a nap. You'll feel
better when you're rested.

Pat

Email address works as is.

Believe me ... the incident itself caused me very little
anxiety. I merely felt it would be constructive to share the
experience and perhaps enlighten some folks that the need to
share the road is a 2-way street. But I've been amazed at
the responses I've received from people who a) weren't
there, but know better than I do what happened and/or b)
feel the cyclist couldn't possibly have done anything wrong.

In my view, the reasonable response to my post by a
reasonable person would be something like, "yes, we all have
a responsibility to share the road and, if it's no skin off
our backs to move over and make room, we should do so." But
I've continued to read and respond on this thread because
I've been so amazed at the people who feel that there
absolutely MUST be a rational reason for the cyclist to have
behaved the way he did. A cyclist simply COULDN'T be rude
and inconsiderate ... especially not where a driver in a
motor vehicle is involved ... even if the driver in the
motor vehicle is a VERY experienced cyclist, himself.

At least now I understand why I see so many people on club
rides and at centuries and stuff acting like complete asses
by riding as if they own the road.

Thanks to so many of you for confirming my opening premise
... that we are our own worst enemies.

I'm done.

Bob C.

No. I wrote that 'the book' (you might cure your parochial
point of view) demonstrates in math/engineering language
that a cyclist cannot generally delay a motorist. I wrote
that the mad motorist cures his 'delay' with a momentary
and vigorous application of the exhaust overpressure
control pedal
(a.k.a. accelerator).

I would like the law enforced even handedly. There are many
times the number of cyclists of motorists.

It is not illegal to be rude and your idea of a 'cure'
for rudeness may become inculcated in the law and not to
our betterment. You are selfish, self-righteous and
narrowly focused.

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
|
| "Doug Huffman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
| "]news:[email hidden]...
| > I keyed on, "I couldn't imagine being THAT rude and
| > inconsiderate of| traffic." And remembered Chapter Eight
| > of Bicycle Transportation. Seems
| to
| > indicate that 'THAT' isn't very inconsiderate and even
| > less than your 'fifteen seconds'. Did you blast the
| > exhaust over pressure pedal,
a.k.b.
| > 'throttle' at them as you passed?
| >
| > Chill. Ride
|
| I don't understand. Are you saying there's some book out
| there that says it's OK to do what these riders were
| doing? If so, then it's stupid and it's going to get
| somebody killed. I was quite patient with it. I didn't
| honk, toot, gesture. I waited patiently until it was
| safe to pass, then I passed. But all the rude rider
| needed to do was ease over to single file for a second.
| It wouldn't have delayed him one bit and it would have
| allowed me to pass.
|
| The law where I live as that bicycles are to ride as far
| to the right as practicable. He wasn't doing that. Not
| even close. He was simply being rude and arrogant or he
| was clueless and he needs to get a clue. I was quite
| tempted to stop farther up the road and await his arrival
| so I could give him one. But my wife was along and she
| would not have approved. Incidentally, her comment to me
| as we passed the riders was, "I hope you don't ride like
| that." I assured her I didn't.
|
| Bob C.
|
|

psycholist said:

"Patrick Lamb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

psycholist said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage
roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane
highways that cuts through our little area. There
weren't any other cars on the stretch of road I was
traveling.

I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as
if they were reasonably experienced riders. They were
riding 2-abreast. They were just dawdling along. The
rider on the left was weaving all over. We were
approaching a crossroad, so I was afraid to pass
because, the way they were riding, I couldn't be sure
they wouldn't make a turn right in front of me. Neither
rider seemed interested in showing me any consideration
whatsoever. Despite the very open road, I had to just
sit in behind them and wait. It's not that it was any
big deal to wait 15 seconds until we got past that
intersection, but I couldn't imagine being THAT rude and
inconsiderate of traffic.

I'd submit that it took you far longer to compose your
original post than it did to wait for those two rude,
inconsiderate riders to clear the intersection. And I'd
hate to guess what multiple of that 15 second delay
you've spent, let alone the rest of us, on follow-ups.

Based on the terrible, terrible anguish you've suffered
by being delayed for an entire 15 seconds on an otherwise
empty road, when you've chosen to live 20 miles away from
your job and regularly cycle to and from work... you're
being unreasonable. Maybe you need a nap. You'll feel
better when you're rested.

Pat

Email address works as is.

Believe me ... the incident itself caused me very little
anxiety. I merely felt it would be constructive to share
the experience and perhaps enlighten some folks that the
need to share the road is a 2-way street. But I've been
amazed at the responses I've received from people who a)
weren't there, but know better than I do what happened
and/or b) feel the cyclist couldn't possibly have done
anything wrong.

In my view, the reasonable response to my post by a
reasonable person would be something like, "yes, we all
have a responsibility to share the road and, if it's no
skin off our backs to move over and make room, we should
do so." But I've continued to read and respond on this
thread because I've been so amazed at the people who feel
that there absolutely MUST be a rational reason for the
cyclist to have behaved the way he did. A cyclist simply
COULDN'T be rude and inconsiderate ... especially not
where a driver in a motor vehicle is involved ... even if
the driver in the motor vehicle is a VERY experienced
cyclist, himself.

At least now I understand why I see so many people on club
rides and at centuries and stuff acting like complete
asses by riding as if they own the road.

Thanks to so many of you for confirming my opening premise
... that we are our own worst enemies.

I'm done.

Bob C.

Well done. I've enjoyed following this thread and I am also
surprised by the illiteracy shown.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Finally! It is amazing! 'Asses' and 'enemies' because
we disagree with you and some are principled
disagreements. Provincial, parochial, self-righteous
and ignorant. Over and out!

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
|
|
| At least now I understand why I see so many people on club
| rides and at centuries and stuff acting like complete
| asses by riding as if they own
the
| road.
|
| Thanks to so many of you for confirming my opening premise
| ... that we are our own worst enemies.
|
| I'm done.
|
| Bob C.
|
|

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:11:44 -0400, "GRL" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What annoys the hell out of me is to be riding along at a
nice clip and you will come up on some idiot bikers (two or
more is common) who have decided to stop and service a bike
or just have a little discussion while laying at least one
bike on the trail (it seems kick stands are extinct)
blocking 2/3 of the trail oblivious to the world around
them. There is a nice wide

I hate that too. A couple weeks ago, I approached a mother
and daughter with their bikes parked across the path. They
were equipped with kickstands, and used them to park exactly
perpendicular, one bike staggered forward to be sure of
blocking the whole path, while they stood on the remaining
foot of pavement reading a plaque. You might think the
mother would like to instill some manners into her child, or
at least not demonstrate how to be rude (without noting that
it is, in fact, rude).

Of course, the usual complaint stands about induhvidiual
rollerbladers taking the _whole_ width of the path, because
they don't want to come within a foot of the edge...the
skate right on the centerline, using up half of each lane,
leaving insufficient room for a bicyclist to pass.
--
Rick Onanian

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 19:38:36 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

This happens to me a lot too. Even after three gentle
'admonishments' (and seeming agreement) this group of three
teenagers still kept stopping on the trail in a bunch, and
at blind corners, as well. Not much you can do, but sigh,
and go on around them.

Crash into them. Be riding a very heavy beater bike at the
time.
--
Rick Onanian

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 21:16:49 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lane. Why don't you just move entirely into the opposing
lane as if you

Because AS I SAID, there was a crossroad ahead and I
couldn't be sure what the clown in the middle was going to
do. I didn't want to pass him in the

Also, you said he was weaving side-to-side; IME, a cyclist
doing that is just as likely to weave all the way to the
other side, except if he sees _oncoming_ traffic. There's no
excuse for weaving; nobody, regardless of transportation
mode, should be doing it.
--
Rick Onanian

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Badger_South said:

This happens to me a lot too. Even after three gentle
'admonishments'

(and seeming agreement)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this group of three teenagers still kept stopping on the
trail in a

bunch, and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

at blind corners, as well. Not much you can do, but sigh,
and go on

around them.

Quoted message said:

Crash into them. Be riding a very heavy beater bike at
the time.

I've used the technique of giving a very loopy expression
(coupled with a crazed grin) and yelling, "Coming through!
COMING THROUGH!" I guess the vision of a more demented
version of their mothers, on a bicycle, is enough to get
them to pull over and get out of my way.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato
and .net for .com Home of the meditative cyclist:
home.earthlink.netWelcome.htmOpen ↗ See the
books I've set free at:
bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗

Frank Krygowski said:

Unless the cyclists were looking back at you and giving you
the finger,

...

Quoted message said:

Look, to put this in context: Have you never walked through
a mall and had people obstruct you for a few seconds? Was
this really that much worse?

Malls, high school halls, whatever; they clump rudely in the
middle, rather than standing to the side. Roads, bike paths,
blocking the travel lane when not traveling at the other
users' speed. That _is_ rude. It's not as rude as giving you
the finger, but it's rude nonetheless.
--
Rick Onanian

maxo said:

A happy ping-piiiiiing is much more jolly than a breathless
"passing on the left!". Highly recommended.

Spoken "beep beep" is often enjoyed as humor. I suspect that
occasionally somebody is offended, as if I said "get out of
the way", but I think most understand...and I give 'em a
goofy grin to go along with it.
--
Rick Onanian

Zoot Katz said:

Knowing now about all those homicidal drivers bent on
revenge it makes me worry for my life every time I think to
dare parallel parking.

You, of all people, drive?
--
Rick Onanian

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 02:10:36 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

To me, a revving engine sounds like an attempt to
intimidate -- especially when practiced by drivers of large
pickup trucks and muscle cars, which themselves are meant
to be intimidating (usually, at least a little) -- and are
usually the ones who do this.

This is as much a hasty generalization as my gut-wrench
reaction to horns. I drive a full-size pickup, and know
loads of others who do. I have absolutely no interest in
intimidating. I drive it for many reasons; I could go on for
pages, but categories include comfort, work, play, and soon
I may be towing a large camper with it too.

Some day, I'd love to drive a 1968 Camaro, with a big V8 and
loud exhaust, but it would most definitely be for fun.

I find that people driving retired police cars often admit
that they drive them for the intimidation factor; that's the
car of choice for those who enjoy that sort of thing.

I do care what others think of what I drive in the
following ways:
- I don't want to be prejudged as a jerk or idiot, or
scumbag kid (econobox lowered with wheels sticking out a
foot and a huge wing, while the body rusts)
- With some vehicles, I do enjoy getting compliments on how
it looks (for example, added chrome on the pickup)
--
Rick Onanian

S o r n i said:

Anyone else notice that toward the end of a ride --
especially a long and/or hard ride -- the "startle
response" is greatly suppressed? More than a few

It would be nice to say this is a calming effect of riding,
but for me, it's a "I'm too damn tired to pedal, let alone
flinch" effect.
--
Rick Onanian