Cyclist rant

Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:38:19 -0400, <[email hidden]>,

psycholist said:

He probably managed to tick off a good number of the
rednecks in pickups among whom I have to ride every day, so
I'll have to watch my backside more closely.

I wish cyclists weren't their own worst enemies so often.

Shove your myths.
--
zk

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
: They knew I was there. They just apparently didn't care.
:
: Bob C.

I'm not only with you, Bob, I'll raise you one:

IMHO, cyclists have a responsibility to be aware of their
surroundings, just as motorists do (or do many of us want
the rights, but not the responsibilities....). As soon as I
become aware of a car coming from behind (and that's pretty
soon, because I'm not afraid of using my helmet mirror), I
move. Problem solved. No motorists were enraged in the
making of this film....

I've been lambasted for this position on several occasions
before, and am perfectly happy to be lambasted again, but
before launching, ask one question: would the world be a
better place if all cyclists made a slight effort to
understand their impact on motorists (and if all motorists
made an effort to be aware of their impact on cyclists)?

Neil

psycholist wrote:
:: "Doug Huffman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:: message "]news:[email hidden]...
::: I keyed on, "I couldn't imagine being THAT rude and
::: inconsiderate of| traffic." And remembered Chapter Eight
::: of Bicycle Transportation. Seems to indicate that 'THAT'
::: isn't very inconsiderate and even less than your
::: 'fifteen seconds'. Did you blast the exhaust over
::: pressure pedal, a.k.a. 'throttle' at them as you passed?
:::
::: Chill. Ride
::
:: I don't understand. Are you saying there's some book out
:: there that says it's OK to do what these riders were
:: doing? If so, then it's stupid and it's going to get
:: somebody killed. I was quite patient with it. I didn't
:: honk, toot, gesture. I waited patiently until it was
:: safe to pass, then I passed. But all the rude rider
:: needed to do was ease over to single file for a second.
:: It wouldn't have delayed him one bit and it would have
:: allowed me to pass.
::
:: The law where I live as that bicycles are to ride as far
:: to the right as practicable. He wasn't doing that. Not
:: even close. He was simply being rude and arrogant or he
:: was clueless and he needs to get a clue. I was quite
:: tempted to stop farther up the road and await his arrival
:: so I could give him one. But my wife was along and she
:: would not have approved. Incidentally, her comment to me
:: as we passed the riders was, "I hope you don't ride like
:: that." I assured her I didn't.

I was out riding one Sunday morning...I saw a "pack" of team
riders coming from the opposite direction. These guys were
in a bundle, like a bunch of bees, taking up the entire wide
lane in their direction. A car behind them would have no
choice but to wait or pass in the other lane.

One thing you didn't address in your OP was how wide the
road was....i've seen some pretty narrow two-lane hwys..if
conditions were such that the rider thought a car could not
safely pass while sharing the lane, then the rider may have
felt justified in not getting to the side (for the same
reason you didn't feel good about getting entirely into the
opposing lane). Getting to the side is a sure-fire way to
encourage a car to pass...I've seen plenty of people do that
to me...passing with bearly a foot of clearance....but doing
so because I was hugging the end of the shoulderless road.

::
:: Bob C.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Craig Brossman said:

psycholist said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage
roadie.

<snip all to typical experience>

Quoted message said:

Bob C.

As a roadie, mountain biker, and driver, I see this all
too often as well, and it pisses me off. I had a "local"
driving against me in the opposite lane last evening, as I
was riding alone, up against the side of the road, beep 3
times so that I would not miss his salute. I can

Quoted message said:

only imagine this was from experience with the likes of
guys you

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-
^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

describe above,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not necessarily. Some drivers just plain don't like
bikes, period.

Quoted message said:

or he is just a [censored]-head.

Then again, what group doesn't have bad eggs which end up
being our own worst enemies? Unfortunately with our group,
someone often pays with a car/bike altercation, and the
bike loses.

Fortunately, instances of drivers deliberately running down
cyclists are relatively rare (although apparently it does
occasionally happen.) I doubt the antics of a few riders has
much effect on the chances of any cyclist being randomly
selected as a target by a murderous driver.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

S o r n i said:

David Reuteler said:

S o r n i said:

Bill "nothing wrong with giving 'em a friendly little
toot?" S.

no such thing as a friendly toot, imo. rather like a
friendly smack upside the head. nothing wrong with a
"you're being a jackass" toot, tho.

I disagree with the first part. If someone is unaware that
a car is behind them and seeking to pass, a soft tap on
the horn to alert them doesn't seem particularly menacing
or intimidating to me. (A full-on honk is different,
however.)

Bill "agree on the 'UB a jackass' toot, though" S.

Absolutely. There are friendly honkers just alerting us that
they are passing and there are hostile honkers trying to
scare the [censored] out of us.
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was out riding one Sunday morning...I saw a "pack" of
team riders coming from the opposite direction. These guys
were in a bundle, like a bunch of bees, taking up the
entire wide lane in their direction. A car behind

them

Quoted message said:

would have no choice but to wait or pass in the
other lane.

One thing you didn't address in your OP was how wide the
road was....i've seen some pretty narrow two-lane hwys..if
conditions were such that the rider thought a car could
not safely pass while sharing the lane, then the rider may
have felt justified in not getting to the side (for the
same reason you didn't feel good about getting entirely
into the opposing

lane).

Quoted message said:

Getting to the side is a sure-fire way to encourage a car
to pass...I've seen plenty of people do that to
me...passing with bearly a foot of clearance....but doing
so because I was hugging the end of the

shoulderless

Quoted message said:

road.

I've ridden out in the middle of a lane to "claim" it if
there was a curve or some other reason it would be unsafe to
pass. The only reason it was unsafe to pass these two is
because they were riding like morons. As I said, there was a
crossroad coming and I didn't want to go around because I
didn't trust that they wouldn't turn right in front of me.
But they weren't claiming the lane for that reason. They
went straight. They were simply being inconsiderate. They
knew I was there and they just didn't care.

Anyway, the only reason I started this thread was not
because I needed to vent all this. It wasn't that big a
deal. I just thought the example of this might help other
riders, particularly any newbies who may be lurking, to be
more considerate.

Sharing the road is a two-way street.

Bob C.

curt said:

No I didn't miss the point. I understand they were in your
way and rode tandem when they shouldn't have. They were
wrong, but relax. Look at what cyclist put up with really.
It is worse than ever now that people are in a rush to get
no where and possibly the worst invention for
cyclists...the cell phone.

Relax. You got around them within seconds anyway. Give the
guys a break.

Curt

Hmm... I think Bob is right. You can't read.
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter wrote:
:: S o r n i wrote:
::: David Reuteler wrote:
:::: S o r n i <[email hidden]> wrote:
::::: Bill "nothing wrong with giving 'em a friendly little
::::: toot?" S.
::::
:::: no such thing as a friendly toot, imo. rather like a
:::: friendly smack upside the head. nothing wrong with a
:::: "you're being a jackass" toot, tho.
:::
::: I disagree with the first part. If someone is unaware
::: that a car is behind them and seeking to pass, a soft
::: tap on the horn to alert them doesn't seem particularly
::: menacing or intimidating to me. (A full-on honk is
::: different, however.)
:::
::: Bill "agree on the 'UB a jackass' toot, though" S.
::
:: Absolutely. There are friendly honkers just alerting us
:: that they are passing and there are hostile honkers
:: trying to scare the [censored] out of us. --

Yes, I encountered both in my short time riding....Luckily
for me, most are in the former group.

Your rant calls up my own favorite rant and it does not even
involve cars. I mostly ride on a rail trail, so cars are not
an issue. We are just bikers, roller-bladers and the
occasional pedestrian.

What annoys the hell out of me is to be riding along at a
nice clip and you will come up on some idiot bikers (two or
more is common) who have decided to stop and service a bike
or just have a little discussion while laying at least one
bike on the trail (it seems kick stands are extinct)
blocking 2/3 of the trail oblivious to the world around
them. There is a nice wide grassy shoulder on both sides of
the trail all along it. The county keeps it well manicured.
There are no "keep of the grass" signs. Yet the many of bike
riders think it is just fine to block the trail when they
stop, not even moving to the side.

The all time champion was the bunch of teen-aged kids who
laid their bikes across 2/3 of the trail near a bridge they
had been fishing from and the wise man of the bunch stood
next to a bike, in the center of the trail, holding his
fishing rod out to block the remaining 1/3 of the trail that
they and they and their bikes were not already blocking.
Didn't see the rod until I was too close to stop (would you
expect to see your path blocked by a fishing rod help by a
teen-ager?) and tried to go around it, slipped off the edge
of the pavement and went down getting a nasty gash on the
knee.Was sorely tempted to break the kid's rod in half and
fling his bike off the bridge. With him on it. Should have
done it, too.

People complain about bad manners by car drivers. Same kind
of inconsiderate behavior is at least as common with bike
riders in my experience. And I don't mean just kids.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet,
humorist, chemist, Visual Basic
programmer) "psycholist"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane
highways that cuts through our little area. There weren't
any other cars on the stretch of road I was traveling.

I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as if
they were reasonably experienced riders. They were riding
2-abreast. They were

just

Quoted message said:

dawdling along. The rider on the left was weaving all
over. We were approaching a crossroad, so I was afraid to
pass because, the way they

were

Quoted message said:

riding, I couldn't be sure they wouldn't make a turn right
in front of me. Neither rider seemed interested in showing
me any consideration

whatsoever.

Quoted message said:

Despite the very open road, I had to just sit in behind
them and wait.

It's

Quoted message said:

not that it was any big deal to wait 15 seconds until we
got past that intersection, but I couldn't imagine being
THAT rude and inconsiderate of traffic. When I ride with
friends, we ride 2 abreast and talk often

enough,

Quoted message said:

but if we're on a more major highway and/or if we know
there's traffic approaching from behind, we always fall in
single file.

But here's this inconsiderate jerk just blocking me for no
reason whatsoever. He probably managed to tick off a good
number of the rednecks in pickups among whom I have to
ride every day, so I'll have to watch my backside more
closely.

I wish cyclists weren't their own worst enemies so often.

Bob C.

GRL said:

What annoys the hell out of me is to be riding along at a
nice clip and you will come up on some idiot bikers (two or
more is common) who have decided to stop and service a bike
or just have a little discussion while laying at least one
bike on the trail

This happens to me a lot too. Even after three gentle
'admonishments' (and seeming agreement) this group of three
teenagers still kept stopping on the trail in a bunch, and
at blind corners, as well. Not much you can do, but sigh,
and go on around them.

-Badger

psycholist said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane
highways that cuts through our little area. There weren't
any other cars on the stretch of road I was traveling.

If there were no other cars, then why was it so hard for
you to pass?

You assume a priori that bicyclists must allow motorists to
pass within THEIR lane. Why don't you just move entirely
into the opposing lane as if you were passing a slow moving
8 ft wide tractor?

Wayne

Quoted message said:

The law where I live as that bicycles are to ride as far
to the right as practicable. He wasn't doing that. Not
even close. He was simply being rude and arrogant or he
was clueless and he needs to get a clue. I was quite
tempted to stop farther up the road and await his arrival
so I could give him one. But my wife was along and she
would not have approved. Incidentally, her comment to me
as we passed the riders was, "I hope you don't ride like
that." I assured her I didn't.

The as far right as practicable rule is largely
misunderstood, and is typically poorly written.

Suffice it to say that the BICYCLIST determines what is
practicable, not you or anybody else.

Wayne

--
Wayne Pein
Bicycling Matters
[email hidden]

www.humantransport.org
www.bicyclinglife.com

"Wayne Pein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

psycholist said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage
roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane
highways that

cuts

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

through our little area. There weren't any other cars on
the stretch of road I was traveling.

If there were no other cars, then why was it so hard for
you to pass?

You assume a priori that bicyclists must allow motorists
to pass within

THEIR

Quoted message said:

lane. Why don't you just move entirely into the opposing
lane as if you

were

Quoted message said:

passing a slow moving 8 ft wide tractor?

Wayne

Because AS I SAID, there was a crossroad ahead and I
couldn't be sure what the clown in the middle was going to
do. I didn't want to pass him in the opposite lane or
anywhere given that he was being so oblivious. I was afraid
he might turn right in front of me. (He didn't. He went
straight.)

You sound all high and mighty in the posts you've made on
this thread. Had you been there, you'd have clearly seen
that there was no excuse for this riders behavior. He wasn't
riding as far to the right as pracitcable by ANY stretch of
anyone's imagination. And don't try to tell me what I
assume. I assume that sharing the road is supposed to be
just that ... sharing. I'm a cyclist and I try to ride with
consideration for the cars that also are entitled to the
road. This particular cyclist that I encountered acted like
the road was all his and screw everybody else. I'm learning
from some of the unbelieveable posts on this thread that
there are a whole lot of you out there who apparently feel
all people in cars are evil and that people on bicycles can
do no wrong.

I'll bet that, when it suits you, you all sheepishly drive
around in big gas-guzzling cars, talk on cell phones while
you're driving and eat Big Mac's at the same time.

Bob C.

"Wayne Pein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The law where I live as that bicycles are to ride as far
to the right as practicable. He wasn't doing that. Not
even close. He was simply

being

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rude and arrogant or he was clueless and he needs to get
a clue. I was quite tempted to stop farther up the road
and await his arrival so I

could

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

give him one. But my wife was along and she would not
have approved. Incidentally, her comment to me as we
passed the riders was, "I hope you don't ride like
that." I assured her I didn't.

The as far right as practicable rule is largely
misunderstood, and is

typically

Quoted message said:

poorly written.

Suffice it to say that the BICYCLIST determines what is
practicable, not

you or

Quoted message said:

anybody else.

Wayne

--
Wayne Pein Bicycling Matters [email hidden]

www.humantransport.org www.bicyclinglife.com

Did you bother to read the original post?

Bob C.

Quoted message said:

"psycholist" [email hidden]

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as if
they were reasonably experienced riders. They were riding
2-abreast. They were just dawdling along. The rider on the
left was weaving all over. We were approaching a crossroad,
so I was afraid to pass because...

---snip---

Is it possible that they were "taking the lane" for the very
reasons you hesitated to pull into the opposing lane and
pass them? If you couldn't be sure neither of them was going
to turn in front of you, how could they be sure you wouldn't
"right hook" them at the crossroads? Has your caution never
delayed a motorist by a few seconds when you are riding?
What seems to get your blood boiling the most about this
incident is that you interpreted their actions as
intentionally rude and inconsiderate. Maybe they were and
maybe they weren't. Who knows and even if they were... so
what? Let it go.

Regards, Bob Hunt

psycholist wrote:
:: "Wayne Pein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: "]news:[email hidden]...
::: psycholist wrote:
:::
:::: I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage
:::: roadie.
::::
:::: The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane
:::: highways that cuts through our little area. There
:::: weren't any other cars on the stretch of road I was
:::: traveling.
::::
:::
::: If there were no other cars, then why was it so hard for
::: you to pass?
:::
::: You assume a priori that bicyclists must allow motorists
::: to pass within THEIR lane. Why don't you just move
::: entirely into the opposing lane as if you were passing a
::: slow moving 8 ft wide tractor?
:::
::: Wayne
:::
::
:: Because AS I SAID, there was a crossroad ahead and I
:: couldn't be sure what the clown in the middle was going
:: to do. I didn't want to pass him in the opposite lane or
:: anywhere given that he was being so oblivious. I was
:: afraid he might turn right in front of me. (He didn't. He
:: went straight.)
::
:: You sound all high and mighty in the posts you've made
:: on this thread. Had you been there, you'd have clearly
:: seen that there was no excuse for this riders behavior.
:: He wasn't riding as far to the right as pracitcable by
:: ANY stretch of anyone's imagination. And don't try to
:: tell me what I assume. I assume that sharing the road is
:: supposed to be just that ... sharing. I'm a cyclist and
:: I try to ride with consideration for the cars that also
:: are entitled to the road. This particular cyclist that I
:: encountered acted like the road was all his and screw
:: everybody else. I'm learning from some of the
:: unbelieveable posts on this thread that there are a
:: whole lot of you out there who apparently feel all
:: people in cars are evil and that people on bicycles can
:: do no wrong.
::
:: I'll bet that, when it suits you, you all sheepishly
:: drive around in big gas-guzzling cars, talk on cell
:: phones while you're driving and eat Big Mac's at the
:: same time.

You tell 'em, Bob! 🙂

psycholist wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: "]news:[email hidden]...
::: I was out riding one Sunday morning...I saw a "pack" of
::: team riders coming from the opposite direction. These
::: guys were in a bundle, like a bunch of bees, taking up
::: the entire wide lane in their direction. A car behind
::: them would have no choice but to wait or pass in the
::: other lane.
:::
::: One thing you didn't address in your OP was how wide the
::: road was....i've seen some pretty narrow two-lane
::: hwys..if conditions were such that the rider thought a
::: car could not safely pass while sharing the lane, then
::: the rider may have felt justified in not getting to the
::: side (for the same reason you didn't feel good about
::: getting entirely into the opposing lane). Getting to the
::: side is a sure-fire way to encourage a car to
::: pass...I've seen plenty of people do that to
::: me...passing with bearly a foot of clearance....but
::: doing so because I was hugging the end of the
::: shoulderless road.
::
:: I've ridden out in the middle of a lane to "claim" it if
:: there was a curve or some other reason it would be
:: unsafe to pass. The only reason it was unsafe to pass
:: these two is because they were riding like morons. As I
:: said, there was a crossroad coming and I didn't want to
:: go around because I didn't trust that they wouldn't turn
:: right in front of me. But they weren't claiming the lane
:: for that reason. They went straight. They were simply
:: being inconsiderate. They knew I was there and they just
:: didn't care.
::
:: Anyway, the only reason I started this thread was not
:: because I needed to vent all this. It wasn't that big a
:: deal. I just thought the example of this might help other
:: riders, particularly any newbies who may be lurking, to
:: be more considerate.

Then you achieved your goal where I'm concerned 🙂

::
:: Sharing the road is a two-way street.

True.

Rick Onanian said:

Matt O'Toole said:

Quoted message said:

no such thing as a friendly toot, imo.

I disagree, but how a horn is interpreted depends on
where you are.

Sounds reasonable, but I think it's also a matter of who
you are. I'm often startled by even a minor blip from a
horn, and often offended, even if I think it wasn't
supposed to be offensive.

If more people did it (when appropriate), it wouldn't be so
startling.

Quoted message said:

As such, I temporarily got in the habit of revving my
engine to notify others with a less sharp noise, but
apparently most people believe that to be an obnoxious
"I'm trying to race" noise.

Seems to me, the ___...---***```***---...___ pattern of
engine revving sound is more gentle than the
***************************
pattern of even a short honk, but well...that's just me.

To me, a revving engine sounds like an attempt to intimidate
-- especially when practiced by drivers of large pickup
trucks and muscle cars, which themselves are meant to be
intimidating (usually, at least a little) -- and are usually
the ones who do this.

On an organized ride the other day, I heard an engine-revver
harassing a rider a few dozen yards behind me. It went on
for a few minutes as we all climbed a big hill -- a rather
obnoxious display. We were probably keeping him from getting
his cigarettes at the convenience store up the road.

A little toot is OK. I often don't hear cars behind me,
especially if I'm riding into the wind.

Matt O.

<< ...Why don't you just move entirely into the opposing
lane as if you were passing a slow moving 8 ft wide tractor?

Wayne >>

Why doesn't the jackass just move over a few feet? What is
so f***ing precious about being on a bike that you can't
move over a few feet?

We move over because we can. If there is enough space in the
lane for the passing car and a skinny-ass bike, make it
work. It's righteous to act as if there were other people on
the planet besides yourself. Cooperate and make room, if
possible, and if not, take your lane and most drivers will
understand.

Robert

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:38:19 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane
highways that cuts through our little area. There weren't
any other cars on the stretch of road I was traveling.

I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as if
they were reasonably experienced riders. They were riding
2-abreast. They were just dawdling along. The rider on the
left was weaving all over. We were approaching a crossroad,
so I was afraid to pass because, the way they were riding,
I couldn't be sure they wouldn't make a turn right in front
of me. Neither rider seemed interested in showing me any
consideration whatsoever. Despite the very open road, I had
to just sit in behind them and wait. It's not that it was
any big deal to wait 15 seconds until we got past that
intersection, but I couldn't imagine being THAT rude and
inconsiderate of traffic.

I'd submit that it took you far longer to compose your
original post than it did to wait for those two rude,
inconsiderate riders to clear the intersection. And I'd hate
to guess what multiple of that 15 second delay you've spent,
let alone the rest of us, on follow-ups.

Based on the terrible, terrible anguish you've suffered by
being delayed for an entire 15 seconds on an otherwise empty
road, when you've chosen to live 20 miles away from your job
and regularly cycle to and from work... you're being
unreasonable. Maybe you need a nap. You'll feel better when
you're rested.

Pat

Email address works as is.