Cycling and Age.

tomUK said:

Anyone esle experienced this? It feels a little crazy to go through this when you see pro-cyclist performing well past the age of 35 without any performance decrease.

The pros all use drugs.

You are getting old. :p It happens to the best of us. Recovery becomes a lot more important, but you should still be able to do well through your forties.

tomUK said:

Wanted to know if anyone else has experienced this:

Between the age of 26-28 I found cycling a breeze. Intervals felt easy and I could at my prime time produce 280W for 2x20 intervals with a 5 minute rest.

Now (at the age of 33), I can bearly hold 230W for the 2x20 intervals. I'm not really training less, maybe more; however, I've never added more than 10% in intensity or time while increasing the volume.

Also I tend to feel a little more light headed and 'out of it' after doing these intervals. Nothing wrong with my heart - had it check recently by a cardiologist.

Anyone esle experienced this? It feels a little crazy to go through this when you see pro-cyclist performing well past the age of 35 without any performance decrease.

What you're experiencing is definitely not the result of physiological changes brought about by aging. Perhaps mentally you've become more resistant to putting up with the discomfort of hard training.

Pendejo said:

What you're experiencing is definitely not the result of physiological changes brought about by aging. Perhaps mentally you've become more resistant to putting up with the discomfort of hard training.

You might be right. How does one overcome this?

Also, I've noticed that I don't seem to get the same 'high' from exercise as I once did. I wonder if this is where you get used to it also.

tomUK said:

You might be right. How does one overcome this?...

You train in a structured way.

When I started racing in college I got good results by just riding a lot with team mates without any particular structure.

As I got older that approach became less and less successful. When I came back to racing after more than a decade away from the sport I realized quickly that just riding and participating in the fast group rides wasn't getting me anywhere near race fitness. I bought a PM and structured my training with specific goals, backed off on the group rides and finally learned to train with a plan.

It took some time, but my race results are better than when I was younger. I didn't have a PM back in the day to objectively compare fitness but my TT times are much faster for the same distances so I've got to believe I've increased my fitness substantially even though I'm quite a bit older. In my late 20's even with aero bars I never broke an hour for a 40K TT. Now at 47 years riding as a master I've posted half a dozen 40K TTs under an hour with my best recent times more than 8 minutes faster than what I managed as a Cat III rider.

The point is you probably have to train with more focus and what seemed to come naturally when you were younger might require a more structured approach to training now. Especially if like most of us you've got work and family obligations to balance that you might not have had when you were younger. But don't think you can't reclaim or even exceed your previous cycling fitness now that you're older.

If you've been training the same way all along with no long breaks but suddenly your sustainable power has dropped I'd look at nutrition, recovery or see your doctor to figure out what's different now. But if you took some time off between 28 and 33 and it feels a lot harder now then make a plan, give yourself time and work back towards race fitness.

Good luck,
-Dave

I guess I hear a lot about structure; however, this I assume means riding alone more, which in itself sounds a little frustrating.

If possible I would like to discover what motivates one to push harder and harder. does not the bike then become a place of pain and the natural human being tends away from this.

What do YOU do personally to make the majority of your time on the bike enjoyable. Would you be able to share a typical workout week (with goals/objectives) so that I can get a good idea of what motivates you, etc..

tomUK said:

I guess I hear a lot about structure; however, this I assume means riding alone more, which in itself sounds a little frustrating.

If possible I would like to discover what motivates one to push harder and harder. does not the bike then become a place of pain and the natural human being tends away from this.

What do YOU do personally to make the majority of your time on the bike enjoyable. Would you be able to share a typical workout week (with goals/objectives) so that I can get a good idea of what motivates you, etc..

If that were true, there would be no athletes. Most human beings also gravitate towards pride (positive or negative) and a sense of accomplishment. We put ourselves through that discomfort, because the result is worth it in our minds. As someone's signature on this forum says "Pain is temporary, quitting lasts forever."

Some ride because they like to ride bikes, others because they like to know how good they can get. If you want to improve then that must be what motivates you to train and go through discomfort and pain. Otherwise, just enjoy riding your bike and don't worry about power.

tomUK said:

...What do YOU do personally to make the majority of your time on the bike enjoyable. Would you be able to share a typical workout week (with goals/objectives) so that I can get a good idea of what motivates you, etc..

Motivation is a personal matter. For me it's a combination of enjoying going fast on a bike, maintaining overall fitness for life and other activities, improving on my personal best race results, time trial times and in training my best sustainable powers for various durations. But most of all I like the way I feel day in and day out when I train and enjoy the process of personal improvement. Those are bigger motivators for me than being faster than a local rider on a group ride or having folks to chat with on longer rides. Not to say I avoid all group rides but they aren't the source of my motivation and when I do go out with the Tuesday night hammerfest or do a long weekend ride with team mates I tend to ride near or at the front from start to finish and not limp in alone like I did a few years ago. IOW, all that solo training time also makes fast group riding more fun.

In terms of training I do about 90% of my training alone and it consists of various blocked or intervals varying in length and intensity throughout the year depending on my focus at the time. Roughly half of my rides are longer Tempo/SST sessions indoors this time of year and outdoors when the weather allows. These are still focused rides but longer and not blocked up into specific intervals just good solid riding in L3 and above. In the winter I replace my longest days with nordic skiing, either high tempo classic or ski skating. I still tend to go alone to set my own pace. I had a great 3 hour skate ski last Sunday on a cold but sunny day. It sure beat three hours on the trainer.

Once in a while I'll do a very long solo ride just because I like long rides and enjoy walking out the front door and knocking out a hundred or more solo miles. I love the feeling that I can just jump on the bike and really cover some distance without events, aid stations, preplanned courses and having to drive to some special place to do a long ride. It's not my most focused training and definitely not the core of my program but I get a lot of satisfaction out of long impromptu rides when the mood strikes me and I still try to keep them quick as my mind goes numb if I just plod along hour after hour. I'll sometimes do these with one or more team mates, but only if they're game to keep the pace moving. Too many long group rides seem to digress into slow rolling [censored] sessions and that's neither fun for me nor good training.

I'm no hardman or superstar racer. I get my share of placings and even some podium finishes but rarely win races. The point isn't that I go super hard all the time, just that I fit my training to my own pace, push myself when I can, back off or take rest days when I need to and don't let others dictate my training. Every season I see enthusiastic but relatively untrained riders beating themselves up week after week on the weekly group hammerfest and week after week they get part way through the ride before getting dropped and limp home. They're convinced that going out and suffering through as many short hard attacks as they can tolerate will lead to sustainable power and the ability to stay with the group to the finish. If they're open to suggestions I usually suggest they invest some time riding their own pace seeing what they can sustain for 20 and 30 minute sustained efforts and building their core fitness. Those that have taken that advice typically come back later in the season and ride very differently with much better results.

Motivation is something you'll need to figure out, but I'm convinced that most folks will get better results by training solo at their own best pace for the majority of their riding. We don't have to be hermits, but too many folks trust in their local groups to provide training and it's pretty rare that a group ride will go out at exactly the pace that provides the best training stimulus for any given rider. Sure ride with friends, it's fun, but take control and own your training which typically means more solo training time.

Good luck,
-Dave

Pain? What pain? All together now: I-B-U-P-R-O-F-E-N!😄 42 years young and have never felt any pain on the bike😉. that was a joke...

Seriously, if you're not getting any sense of enjoyment (that euphoric, "high" feeling) after completing a hard ride or set of intervals where you're sweating and breathing hard, something's definitely missing in your motivation. It may be time for an honest assessment to determine what activity "floats your boat" at this time in your life...

Thank you for the well-written and time spent answering my question.

Do you mind if I PM you?

thanks

Hell, I turn 50 next month and Im just getting to the fun part, 20+ years of riding and 90% of my riding is by myself. I push hard so every time I do get in a group I can show those young kids (30ish) they better not ever slack off any and to beat me, they will have to sweat a LOT. 😄😄😄 I still can ride a 5:00-5:10 solo century and not feel dead the next day.

5 hours solo? Are you joking? If not, tell me what drugs you are taking. Esp. if you are not feeling dead the next day. Have you considered the TdF?

daveryanwyoming said:

Motivation is a personal matter. For me it's a combination of enjoying going fast on a bike, maintaining overall fitness for life and other activities, improving on my personal best race results, time trial times and in training my best sustainable powers for various durations. But most of all I like the way I feel day in and day out when I train and enjoy the process of personal improvement. Those are bigger motivators for me than being faster than a local rider on a group ride or having folks to chat with on longer rides. Not to say I avoid all group rides but they aren't the source of my motivation and when I do go out with the Tuesday night hammerfest or do a long weekend ride with team mates I tend to ride near or at the front from start to finish and not limp in alone like I did a few years ago. IOW, all that solo training time also makes fast group riding more fun.

In terms of training I do about 90% of my training alone and it consists of various blocked or intervals varying in length and intensity throughout the year depending on my focus at the time. Roughly half of my rides are longer Tempo/SST sessions indoors this time of year and outdoors when the weather allows. These are still focused rides but longer and not blocked up into specific intervals just good solid riding in L3 and above. In the winter I replace my longest days with nordic skiing, either high tempo classic or ski skating. I still tend to go alone to set my own pace. I had a great 3 hour skate ski last Sunday on a cold but sunny day. It sure beat three hours on the trainer.

Once in a while I'll do a very long solo ride just because I like long rides and enjoy walking out the front door and knocking out a hundred or more solo miles. I love the feeling that I can just jump on the bike and really cover some distance without events, aid stations, preplanned courses and having to drive to some special place to do a long ride. It's not my most focused training and definitely not the core of my program but I get a lot of satisfaction out of long impromptu rides when the mood strikes me and I still try to keep them quick as my mind goes numb if I just plod along hour after hour. I'll sometimes do these with one or more team mates, but only if they're game to keep the pace moving. Too many long group rides seem to digress into slow rolling [censored] sessions and that's neither fun for me nor good training.

I'm no hardman or superstar racer. I get my share of placings and even some podium finishes but rarely win races. The point isn't that I go super hard all the time, just that I fit my training to my own pace, push myself when I can, back off or take rest days when I need to and don't let others dictate my training. Every season I see enthusiastic but relatively untrained riders beating themselves up week after week on the weekly group hammerfest and week after week they get part way through the ride before getting dropped and limp home. They're convinced that going out and suffering through as many short hard attacks as they can tolerate will lead to sustainable power and the ability to stay with the group to the finish. If they're open to suggestions I usually suggest they invest some time riding their own pace seeing what they can sustain for 20 and 30 minute sustained efforts and building their core fitness. Those that have taken that advice typically come back later in the season and ride very differently with much better results.

Motivation is something you'll need to figure out, but I'm convinced that most folks will get better results by training solo at their own best pace for the majority of their riding. We don't have to be hermits, but too many folks trust in their local groups to provide training and it's pretty rare that a group ride will go out at exactly the pace that provides the best training stimulus for any given rider. Sure ride with friends, it's fun, but take control and own your training which typically means more solo training time.

Good luck,
-Dave

Good comments, well put. I haven't ridden with a group in ten years. I stopped when I finally realized that in a group I was almost always going slower or faster than I wanted at any particular time. I also never liked the competitiveness that always seems to rear its ugly head; I'll save that for the races. And then there was the danger of someone else taking you down (happened to me one time). I really think it's foolish for most amateurs to be riding in pacelines - the risk far outweighs the benefits.

tomUK said:

5 hours solo? Are you joking? If not, tell me what drugs you are taking. Esp. if you are not feeling dead the next day. Have you considered the TdF?

I didn't say I set any land speed records in those five plus hour rides, but I really do enjoy covering ground from time to time and seeing how far I can go self supported. Nope no illicit substances just water bottles full of energy drinks, gels and bars in my pockets and what I food and drink I can find along the way at convenience stores, cafes or the occasional supermarket stop.

But like I said these aren't the basis of my training plan, if you look back through my forum posts you'll see I typically discourage folks from basing their cycling fitness on frequent long rides. Endurance comes from raising sustainable power, but it doesn't always work the other way around. The hordes of regular century and double century finishers that couldn't finish a club training race or survive the first three laps of a crit are evidence that miles don't necessarily yield power or speed.

Here's my power plot from one of these I did on a nice late summer day last season. No power records in that ride but still a great day and it worked nicely as a deep dig prior to a race taper. Sometimes digging a deep training hole can be very useful...

-Dave

Well, tomorrow I head out to team camp. That first day will be my first team ride in over 2 months, and only the 2nd outdoor ride in as long. So yeah, 2 months riding alone and indoors. Though I'm sure I'm not the record holder around here. 🙂

BTW, to keep this on topic, I'm 41 and stronger than when I was in my 20's. So loss of sustainable power from 28 to 33 years of age is definitely not age related.

Piotr said:

... Though I'm sure I'm not the record holder around here. 🙂....

I'm pretty sure that goes to rmur or Alex both log a lot of indoor time year round. I put the trainer away as soon as the snow melts.

Have fun at camp, you back down in St. George again?

-Dave

daveryanwyoming said:

I'm pretty sure that goes to rmur or Alex both log a lot of indoor time year round. I put the trainer away as soon as the snow melts.

Have fun at camp, you back down in St. George again?

-Dave

Yes. At least the Thursday afternoon ride will be good. 🙄

I have been reading this thread and it is some great reading. Thanks for asking the question. This is the type of stuff I really enjoy reading.

I am not sure based upon your post that you were really happy with your performance when you were 26-28. But for sure it seems that you are simply frustrated with your current output. I think the posts here are great about structured training or trying other things. But I can tell you from my experience from a person who is not always hitting a new high that maybe just change the goal.

I have found in other parts of my life that the goal needs to be reasonably obtainable. I would look at how many hours I can put in and make a goal that is reasonable to obtain with some structured training and that goal can be anything from a number on a PM device, to performing well on a group ride, to performing well during a race or even make up one for yourself like I do my yearly rides from NYC to Boston and Baltimore.

I have to tell you lately I have been taking my bike on business trips and vacations and I have never had more fun just riding in new areas and seeing new sights...in the end remember this is not your job, this is suppose to be fun while being fit.

-js

tomUK said:

Wanted to know if anyone else has experienced this:

Between the age of 26-28 I found cycling a breeze. Intervals felt easy and I could at my prime time produce 280W for 2x20 intervals with a 5 minute rest.

Now (at the age of 33), I can bearly hold 230W for the 2x20 intervals. I'm not really training less, maybe more; however, I've never added more than 10% in intensity or time while increasing the volume.

Also I tend to feel a little more light headed and 'out of it' after doing these intervals. Nothing wrong with my heart - had it check recently by a cardiologist.

Anyone esle experienced this? It feels a little crazy to go through this when you see pro-cyclist performing well past the age of 35 without any performance decrease.

daveryanwyoming said:

I didn't say I set any land speed records in those five plus hour rides, but I really do enjoy covering ground from time to time and seeing how far I can go self supported. Nope no illicit substances just water bottles full of energy drinks, gels and bars in my pockets and what I food and drink I can find along the way at convenience stores, cafes or the occasional supermarket stop.

But like I said these aren't the basis of my training plan, if you look back through my forum posts you'll see I typically discourage folks from basing their cycling fitness on frequent long rides. Endurance comes from raising sustainable power, but it doesn't always work the other way around. The hordes of regular century and double century finishers that couldn't finish a club training race or survive the first three laps of a crit are evidence that miles don't necessarily yield power or speed.

Here's my power plot from one of these I did on a nice late summer day last season. No power records in that ride but still a great day and it worked nicely as a deep dig prior to a race taper. Sometimes digging a deep training hole can be very useful...

-Dave

Wow - that is quite a ride. Plus five hours and 178Watts. I'm impressed. Very. Can I ask you height and weight?

A little more insight about me, in the hope that someone can suggest a new plan/idea. Thank you for the input everyone.

I'm 33, 6ft and 144lbs. About 4% bodyfat. My resting heart rate is 35bpm. My weekly diary looks like this:

Monday: Off
Tuesday: 1 Hour ride at 160W.
Wednesday: 1 Hour ride at 130W
Thursday: 2 repeats of 20 mins @ 230W with 5 minutes rest between set.
Friday: Off
Sat: 40 miles at 150W.
Sun: 1 Hour at 150W.

I'm not really sure where to go from here. I do have the book by Andy Coggan; however, it doesn't seem to give a good structure.

I remember back in '04 I was pushing 2 hours at 180W and an average heart rate of about 110bpm.

I'd just like to ramp it back up a little. You know - find the motivation and see results. I've noticed that as I've got 'older' that after a long ride I sometimes feel a sense of malaise. I've been checked over and all is good - heart, blood, etc.

Maybe I'm just ready for the knackers yard.

Any advice would be gratefully recieved.
Thanks.

tomUK said:

Wow - that is quite a ride. Plus five hours and 178Watts. I'm impressed. Very. Can I ask you height and weight?

A little more insight about me, in the hope that someone can suggest a new plan/idea. Thank you for the input everyone.

I'm 33, 6ft and 144lbs. About 4% bodyfat. My resting heart rate is 35bpm. My weekly diary looks like this:

Monday: Off
Tuesday: 1 Hour ride at 160W.
Wednesday: 1 Hour ride at 130W
Thursday: 2 repeats of 20 mins @ 230W with 5 minutes rest between set.
Friday: Off
Sat: 40 miles at 150W.
Sun: 1 Hour at 150W.

I'm not really sure where to go from here. I do have the book by Andy Coggan; however, it doesn't seem to give a good structure.

I remember back in '04 I was pushing 2 hours at 180W and an average heart rate of about 110bpm.

I'd just like to ramp it back up a little. You know - find the motivation and see results. I've noticed that as I've got 'older' that after a long ride I sometimes feel a sense of malaise. I've been checked over and all is good - heart, blood, etc.

Maybe I'm just ready for the knackers yard.

Any advice would be gratefully recieved.
Thanks.

4% body fat!? Resting heart rate of 35 bpm!? I think I know what's wrong with you. You're a friggin' alien and like those lizards in War of the Worlds you've probably caught an ordinary cold and can't handle it.