Cycle Shoes

Velvet [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Yebbut I don't fancy that either ;-)

In around 7 years of riding clipless, I've only done it twice. The only
other time I nearly came off was when taking a bike out for a test ride.
My co-rider was just getting used to clipless when he discovered that 1
of the 4 tension adjusters had been left at "normal". He nearly wiped me
out while desperately trying to unclip.

While I couldn't really recommend falling off it is such a rarity that
it's not worth worrying about. I'm sure that this wont convince you
anymore than all the others have but really...

You use them on a turbo trainer? Loose bolts aside, how often are you
unable to unclip?

Jon

Michael MacClancy said:

Velvet said:

Quoted message said:

Velvet wrote:

>Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the learning
>process...

Quoted message said:

I'll use them when I'm ready for them, ta :-) I *want* to, but I don't
want to set myself more hurdles than I can jump over.

Yes, and in the meantime you're suggesting to other people that clipless
pedals are a bigger problem than they really are (for most people).
There's nothing inevitable about it.

So just why is it that I think there's a problem, that I *will* fall off?

Is it, just maybe, because that's what I've seen here?

Is it the case that people actually *don't* fall off, that the tales I
hear HERE are, in fact, nothing more than just that, tall tales with no
fact?

NEVER have I said spds are bad and that they shouldn't be used. I say
'inevitable' because that applies to me (and, I have to say, seems to
have been borne out by others that post here).

I might point out that I'm NOT suggesting to OTHER people that they are
a bigger problem than they really are. Someone expressed surprise that
I was using cycling specific shoes with no restraining mechanisms, and
someone else that any sort of distance being cycled and you might as
well put them on...

I then explained WHY I haven't, and pointed out that cycling 50 miles
with cycling shoes on normal pedals isn't a problem, with the intention
that the OP would therefore realise that there ARE benefits to cycling
specific shoes, without needing to actually fit the assosciated pedals,
if they didn't feel it was for them, at that point of time.

--

Velvet

Jon Senior said:

Velvet [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Yebbut I don't fancy that either ;-)

In around 7 years of riding clipless, I've only done it twice. The only
other time I nearly came off was when taking a bike out for a test ride.
My co-rider was just getting used to clipless when he discovered that 1
of the 4 tension adjusters had been left at "normal". He nearly wiped me
out while desperately trying to unclip.

While I couldn't really recommend falling off it is such a rarity that
it's not worth worrying about. I'm sure that this wont convince you
anymore than all the others have but really...

You use them on a turbo trainer? Loose bolts aside, how often are you
unable to unclip?

Jon

At the moment? nearly every time, and that's with them set to their
loosest (and yes, I've double and triple checked, and they go from very
hard to impossible, so I know I'm going the right way with it).

There's absolutely no way I'd dare going out with the time it takes me
to unclip at the moment. They *are* the black single-release cleats
though, at some point I'll try the silver multi ones.

Maybe I just have wimpy ankles, but even a good hard twist doesn't
always free them, and I certainly can't do both at the same time - in
fact, only one of them (and the wrong one) tends to come free first or
second time, the other one I struggle with even more.

I have to put so much oomph behind it that there's no way I'd be able to
retain my balance on the bike while doing this twisting.

So there you go, the reasons why clipless aren't for me outdoors yet.
Even on grass. I don't relish the bruises I'd pick up even on grass
from failing to unclip, or unclipping and overbalancing, and ending up
tangled in bike lying on my side.

--

Velvet

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In news:[email hidden],
Velvet <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I did that too. I'm now an expert at removing cleats (without
shoes) from spds pedals. Brute force took care of removing the shoes
from the cleats... luckily the shoes survived.

Also luckily, this was all with the bike firmly on the turbo!!

I found it was OK to do get them off once you'd removed your feet, as you
could now twist the shoes enough to unclip them. Of course, the truly
flexible could turn their legs more than 90 degrees and not need to take
their shoes off.

A

Exactly the same experience last Sunday, out audaxing with my sister, we
stopped and helen couldn't unclip. She had new shoes and the bolts weren't
tight enough. Fortunately the shoe came out of the pedal easily although we
neaely lost a bolt in the process.

Additionally I would add that I have fallen off with clipless pedals (Time
Atacs as I have a dodgy knee). The scenario was simple, pedal up hill,
decide to change to inner chainring, chain comes off, fall onto verge.
Annoyingly I not only cut my knee on some stones but had a hole in my tights
to fix as well. Ho hum

Julia

Velvet [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

At the moment? nearly every time, and that's with them set to their
loosest (and yes, I've double and triple checked, and they go from very
hard to impossible, so I know I'm going the right way with it).

There's absolutely no way I'd dare going out with the time it takes me
to unclip at the moment. They *are* the black single-release cleats
though, at some point I'll try the silver multi ones.

Maybe I just have wimpy ankles, but even a good hard twist doesn't
always free them, and I certainly can't do both at the same time - in
fact, only one of them (and the wrong one) tends to come free first or
second time, the other one I struggle with even more.

I have to put so much oomph behind it that there's no way I'd be able to
retain my balance on the bike while doing this twisting.

So there you go, the reasons why clipless aren't for me outdoors yet.
Even on grass. I don't relish the bruises I'd pick up even on grass
from failing to unclip, or unclipping and overbalancing, and ending up
tangled in bike lying on my side.

Now that sounds like a better reason. What are the pedals (Model)? I
find that the Shimano ones that I own have all been fine at the default
tension (About halfway I think!). Have you had a chance to try any
others?

Jon

Jon Senior said:

Velvet [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

At the moment? nearly every time, and that's with them set to their
loosest (and yes, I've double and triple checked, and they go from very
hard to impossible, so I know I'm going the right way with it).

There's absolutely no way I'd dare going out with the time it takes me
to unclip at the moment. They *are* the black single-release cleats
though, at some point I'll try the silver multi ones.

Maybe I just have wimpy ankles, but even a good hard twist doesn't
always free them, and I certainly can't do both at the same time - in
fact, only one of them (and the wrong one) tends to come free first or
second time, the other one I struggle with even more.

I have to put so much oomph behind it that there's no way I'd be able to
retain my balance on the bike while doing this twisting.

So there you go, the reasons why clipless aren't for me outdoors yet.
Even on grass. I don't relish the bruises I'd pick up even on grass
from failing to unclip, or unclipping and overbalancing, and ending up
tangled in bike lying on my side.

Now that sounds like a better reason. What are the pedals (Model)? I
find that the Shimano ones that I own have all been fine at the default
tension (About halfway I think!). Have you had a chance to try any
others?

Jon

They're shimano M424s I think, from memory? they're double-sided, with
(removable, apparently) plastic/resin cage to allow for use without
cleats (not that I use them that way, I have normal platform/cage types on).

The cleat-grabbing bits are the 'pop-up' type to be easier to get into
(no problems with that bit, though they are a bit stiff to get into).

Not tried any others, I'd made the decision that I wanted shoes I could
walk in (so not Looks etc) and thus with decent tread, and from there
narrowed it down to Shimano, the available women's shoes (I have narrow
heels and didn't want shoes slipping while I tried to get out), and then
looked at compatible pedals which I could have a removable cage on (cage
would stay on for a while till I was used to it, then take off once I
was completely happy about cycling clipped in).

Love the shoes, but as I said, other skills take priority over going
clipless for the moment. Silver cleats might solve the unclipping
thing, I don't know, but that's a bridge to cross when I come to it...

--

Velvet

Ian G Batten said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Velvet said:

Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the learning
process...

I didn't fall off. Getting used to SPD took a morning. I've not used
anything else for the past nine months.

I fell off twice in the early process of getting used to them,
the fell off the other day after not having fallen off for
6 years.

I think on balance, and given that most people I know reckon
they've fallen off when getting used to 'em, assuming you'll
have a couple of mishaps when getting used is far more likely
to be accurate than assuming it will all go swimmingly.

Reply to Velvet

Quoted message said:

They're shimano M424s I think, from memory? they're double-sided, with
(removable, apparently) plastic/resin cage to allow for use without
cleats (not that I use them that way, I have normal platform/cage types on).

I've got those pedals on my errands bike, and when I use my SPD shoes,
the cage interferes with the sole of the shoe such that it can be a
right pain to clip in and out. It could be that if you tried SPD
pedals *without* the cage round them, you might find it much easier.

I'd suggest removing the resin cage; but I've never tried it, and I
don't know how.

--
Mark, UK.
We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him squeak,
We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

in message <[email hidden]>, Velvet

(') said:

Michael MacClancy said:

Velvet said:

>Velvet wrote:
>
>>Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the
>>learning process...

Quoted message said:

I'll use them when I'm ready for them, ta :-) I *want* to, but I
don't want to set myself more hurdles than I can jump over.

Yes, and in the meantime you're suggesting to other people that
clipless pedals are a bigger problem than they really are (for most
people). There's nothing inevitable about it.

So just why is it that I think there's a problem, that I *will* fall
off?

Well, you know, pratfalls are just that. Good for a laugh, rarely hurt.
In the days when I used old fashioned cleated shoes with toeclips and
straps - so you *really* couldn't get your foot out in a hurry - I went
for thirteen years before my first and only fall with them, and that
came about as a result of riding out onto a sandy beach.

Since switching to SPDs I've had exactly one SPD related fall, when I
stopped alongside a post, decided not to unclip, reached out to lean on
the post... and found it was further away than I thought it was.

Both incidents were pure stupidity, both were at practically zero speed,
and in both cases no damage whatever was done either to my bike or my
skin.

Of course I fall off pretty regularly when riding off road. And as both
my hill bikes now have SPDs, that means I fall off when I'm wearing
SPDs. But these are not falls caused by SPDs they're falls caused by
misjudgement or by trying to do things which are beyond my technical
skill - or simply fooling about.

Quoted message said:

Is it, just maybe, because that's what I've seen here?

Is it the case that people actually *don't* fall off, that the tales I
hear HERE are, in fact, nothing more than just that, tall tales with
no fact?

Well, one of the nicer things about this group is the way people are
prepared to own up to their own stupidities. And probably sooner or
later most people do get over-confident and have a pratfall with their
SPDs. And look stupid and get laughed at. But the thing about this
particular sort of fall is that it *only* happens at zero mph. Which
means two things. First it means that you topple over reasonably
gently, sideways, which looks stupid but is highly unlikely to actually
hurt. And second it means that you are by definition not in moving
traffic (else why have you stopped?) so it's most unlikely that
anything is going to squish you.

I do appreciate these things are scarey first time. And I think the
people who are sort of putting moral pressure on you to use them are
misguided. But I also think that you could use them and that if you did
use them you'd find that you appreciated them.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; making jokes about dyslexia isn't big, it isn't clever and
;; it isn't furry.

in message <[email hidden]>, Velvet

(') said:

So there you go, the reasons why clipless aren't for me outdoors yet.
Even on grass. I don't relish the bruises I'd pick up even on grass
from failing to unclip, or unclipping and overbalancing, and ending up
tangled in bike lying on my side.

Honest, you wouldn't. I'm on warfarin so I bleed at the least excuse and
come up in enormous bruises if I walk into the side of a table. But
I've come off a bike - a lot harder than an SPD pratfall - at least
three times in the past fortnight, and I have currently no cycling
related cuts and bruises. This isn't to say I never have any!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and we had run out of gas for the welding torch.

On Wed, 12 May 2004 23:35:03 GMT, Simon Brooke wrote:

snipped

Quoted message said:

I do appreciate these things are scarey first time. And I think the
people who are sort of putting moral pressure on you to use them are
misguided. But I also think that you could use them and that if you did
use them you'd find that you appreciated them.

I think Simon's summed up the situation very well. I'm not one of those
putting pressure on Velvet to go clipless, what she does is a matter for
her. What I don't like is her implication that the learning process
involves lots of (my inference, painful) falling over and the fact that
this may deter many people from doing something that will improve their
cycling pleasure.

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "A modest little person, with much to be modest about."-
Winston Churchill
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

Velvet said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the
>> learning process...

Michael MacC:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, and in the meantime you're suggesting to other people that
clipless pedals are a bigger problem than they really are (for most
people). There's nothing inevitable about it.

Quoted message said:

So just why is it that I think there's a problem, that I *will* fall
off?

Because many people seem to fall off once, after the learning process is
over, just as they are starting to find them second nature and forget about
them. This is dramatically less common that it used to be in the days of
clips and straps, of course. I don't think it's universal; I don't recall
falling off when learning to ride clipless (although I might be wrong), but
I did fall over rather spectacularly when attempting a scooting dismount
while wearing Looks.

Quoted message said:

Is it the case that people actually *don't* fall off, that the tales I
hear HERE are, in fact, nothing more than just that, tall tales with
no fact?

Mostly, yes. Falling off a bike is not a once-in-a-lifetime event. Badly
set drop kerbs on cyclepaths are a good way of proving that, or big
potholes, or clueless cagers on roundabouts, or the occasional bail-out to
avoid some twunt who thinks it's OK to overtake when the vehicle coming the
other way is only a bike...

Quoted message said:

I might point out that I'm NOT suggesting to OTHER people that they
are a bigger problem than they really are. Someone expressed
surprise that I was using cycling specific shoes with no restraining
mechanisms, and someone else that any sort of distance being cycled
and you might as well put them on...

Yes and no. My wife won't even use Zéfal toecups, which are pretty benign.
It's not compulsory, although it does seem to improve efficiency.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

Velvet said:

True - but round here roads aren't quiet, or flat. I'm getting closer
to being able to manage it (little steps at a time)

All you need is a few tens of meters. Slight downhill is better as you
can start freewheeling and avoid a pedal induced shimmy, just roll along
and get used to moving with one hand on the bars only. Are there really
no bits of road (or playground, or field, or carpark) that don't fit the
bill? (And if not, go somewhere there is: if you're cycling 50 milers
that gives you a 20 mile radius to find somewhere okay).

IME little steps at a time works best if you do a lot of those little
steps in a short time. Go back and forth continually and you'll
concentrate the practice and move on much faster. I've had to do this
sort of thing recently to get to grips with the unicycle, and you just
keep at it and at it and at it and at it (aside to Guy if he's reading:
how's the unicycling going?).

<snip very sensible traffic procedures?

Quoted message said:

Then again, he did demonstrate that even cyclists used to spds fall off
with them the other weekend... ;-) So it's not just you lot
scaremongering about them that puts me off trying them at this point in
my learning-how-to-cycle-again curve :-)

I've come off since I got used to them, freely admitted. But then I've
slid off on gravel long after I learned you slide on gravel and so on.
Most of us have fallen off a bike for reasons that if we didn't dare
repeat them, we'd never ride at all. I've come to grief from having my
feet fly off platforms when I'd have been okay clipped in, and that's
potentially far scarier because you're doing more than 0 mph when it
happens...

Seems odd that you can't get out of them on the turbo though (but a very
sensible basis for not trying them on the road, I must admit!). Are you
trying to unclip at all points around the pedal cycle? I can't think
it's "wimpy ankles", if they couldn't supply the force to undo a SPuD
you wouldn't be able to stand up! OTOH I've found that there are
various points around the circle where I just can't move things far
enough to unclip, but move my leg a little further and it's no problem.
Also note that you can move your heel in as well as out to unclip,
which helps sometimes.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Velvet said:

Quoted message said:

You use them on a turbo trainer? Loose bolts aside, how often are you
unable to unclip?

Quoted message said:

At the moment? nearly every time, and that's with them set to their
loosest (and yes, I've double and triple checked, and they go from
very hard to impossible, so I know I'm going the right way with it).
[...] They *are* the black single-release cleats
though, at some point I'll try the silver multi ones.

No difference, IME. I have used both, and now use entirely the black ones
because otherwise my feet tend to bounce out of the pedals on the recumbent,
but I don't find the release action any different between the two.

Quoted message said:

Maybe I just have wimpy ankles, but even a good hard twist doesn't
always free them, and I certainly can't do both at the same time - in
fact, only one of them (and the wrong one) tends to come free first or
second time, the other one I struggle with even more.

That sounds wrong. Have you tried oiling the pedals and putting a small
amount of wax or grease on the cleats?

And are you sure the tension really is at the low end? With the tension
backed off I find the cleats release so easily as to make riding a
challenge.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

Peter Clinch said:

Roos learned to use them on Real Roads while also learning to ride a
'bent /and/ using my SPuD sandals which were size too big, and she
didn't keel over during the process (or since, I think).

I did fall off once...I think. In the dark, coming up the steep potholed
bit at the bottom of Hazel Avenue, slightly intoxicated, in the wrong
gear, not used to the 'bent yet, ran out of speed, and suddenly I sat on
my side. Nobody and nothing got hurt (you don't fall that far on a 'bent
🙂

It also helps if you're not particularly concerned about scrapes and
bruises :-)

Roos

Velvet said:

There's absolutely no way I'd dare going out with the time it takes me
to unclip at the moment. They *are* the black single-release cleats
though, at some point I'll try the silver multi ones.

Maybe I just have wimpy ankles, but even a good hard twist doesn't
always free them, and I certainly can't do both at the same time - in
fact, only one of them (and the wrong one) tends to come free first or
second time, the other one I struggle with even more.

I have to put so much oomph behind it that there's no way I'd be able to
retain my balance on the bike while doing this twisting.

What position have you got the pedals in when you try to release? And why
do you want to do both at the same time?

When I started I got a sore ankle the first day. Since then no problem. I
do lubricate my (Look) pedals regularly.
--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "His mother should have thrown him away and kept the
stork." - Mae West
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

Roos Eisma said:

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Roos learned to use them on Real Roads while also learning to ride a
'bent /and/ using my SPuD sandals which were size too big, and she
didn't keel over during the process (or since, I think).

Quoted message said:

I did fall off once...I think. In the dark, coming up the steep potholed
bit at the bottom of Hazel Avenue

Objection! Hazel Avenue isn't a Real Road! ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Michael MacClancy said:

Velvet said:

There's absolutely no way I'd dare going out with the time it takes me
to unclip at the moment. They *are* the black single-release cleats
though, at some point I'll try the silver multi ones.

Maybe I just have wimpy ankles, but even a good hard twist doesn't
always free them, and I certainly can't do both at the same time - in
fact, only one of them (and the wrong one) tends to come free first or
second time, the other one I struggle with even more.

I have to put so much oomph behind it that there's no way I'd be able to
retain my balance on the bike while doing this twisting.

What position have you got the pedals in when you try to release? And
why
do you want to do both at the same time?

Indeed. During normal riding I think I only ever release my left cleat. If
I have to leave or walk the bike then I release my right foot once the
bike is stationary and my left foot is on the ground.

Colin

Quoted message said:

Indeed. During normal riding I think I only ever release my left cleat. If
I have to leave or walk the bike then I release my right foot once the
bike is stationary and my left foot is on the ground.

Colin

I'm other way around. When setting off, I clip in my left foot, push off and
then clip in my right foot. On slowing to stop, I unclip my right foot first,
stop with right foot on ground and left foot clipped in. Then when bike is
stationary I unclip my left foot to dismount.

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
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dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

Quoted message said:

Indeed. During normal riding I think I only ever release my left cleat. If
I have to leave or walk the bike then I release my right foot once the
bike is stationary and my left foot is on the ground.

Colin

I'm other way around. When setting off, I clip in my left foot, push off and
then clip in my right foot. On slowing to stop, I unclip my right foot first,
stop with right foot on ground and left foot clipped in. Then when bike is
stationary I unclip my left foot to dismount.

Are you left-handed by any chance?

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He loves nature in spite of what it did to him." -
Forrest Tucker
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk