Cycle Shoes

Velvet said:

Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the learning
process...

I have never fallen as a result of using clipless pedals, falling is not
inevitable.

Velvet said:

Peter Clinch said:

But if you've got SPuD compatible shoes and you want to go any sort of
distance you might as well put the relevant pedals on IMHO.
Pete.

Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the learning
process...

I've not yet fallen over and I'm well beyond what might be termed the
learning process. I've had spds for 2 years now, except on the Brommie.

Colin

Simonb said:

Velvet said:

I'm riding in shimano m037w's with fair amounts of tread (though no
grip in the wet it transpires) without any retaining mechs, yes.

I was thinking of a cycle shoe without tread.

Ah, well there you go :-) Mine have tread on them (meaning they're fine
for walking on stuff, so long as it's dry). I deliberately chose ones
with tread on so I *could* walk off the bike in them, though I do
realise having the cleats in the bottom will make it a little harder to
do, hopefully not as impossible as some of the smoother-soled ones would be.

--

Velvet

Velvet said:

Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the learning
process...

You've told yourself it will happen, though that is not necessarily the
case. For example, I never keeled over while getting used to them (I've
gone over a few times /since/, mainly on the MTB, once in the middle of
trying to ford the South Esk...), though I never got hurt, my first pair
were donated to my cycling flatmate who never keeled over in them, and
Roos learned to use them on Real Roads while also learning to ride a
'bent /and/ using my SPuD sandals which were size too big, and she
didn't keel over during the process (or since, I think).

It is not inevitable you will fall over, and the only way to get used to
them is by using them on a real bike on real roads. So stop imagining
obstacles for yourself, and start using your SPuDs! Otherwise you will
never "graduate" to them, because you've set circular reasoning in place
not to (start using them when experienced, not experienced yet so don't
use them, don't use them so no experience, so don't start using them
yet, etc. etc.). All it takes is a can-do attitude and getting on with
it, and those hills will be easier too.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article <[email hidden]>,

Velvet said:

Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the learning
process...

I didn't fall off. Getting used to SPD took a morning. I've not used
anything else for the past nine months.

ian

"Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Velvet said:

Peter Clinch said:

But if you've got SPuD compatible shoes and you want to go any sort of
distance you might as well put the relevant pedals on IMHO.
Pete.

Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the learning
process...

I've not yet fallen over and I'm well beyond what might be termed the
learning process. I've had spds for 2 years now, except on the Brommie.

I have 8 years on SPDs (they are on all my bikes) and I haven't actually decked
it yet. Well, not that i could blame it on the SPDs.

I have had some *very* near misses. The occupants of the car I was in front of
at the lights when I keeled over to about 45 degrees before hurriedly getting a
leg down are probably still laughing, and I still wake up screaming when I dream
about the gorse bush incident, but <FX: knocks on wood> they haven't got me yet.

The secrets are really very few:

A. set the release tension loose to start with,
B. practise for a quarter hour or so while leaning against a wall or something
C. set your seat to its correct height - some people put the seat lower so they
will not fall so hard, but then your leg has less strenght on the "panic pull"
if you do need to get out in a hurry.
D. practise the little "I'm coming to a halt, I need to unclip" mantra for the
first few days.[1]

Good luck to all who take the plunge, may you not take the plunge!

[1] Yes, I made myself really unpopular here by suggesting that it's a good
idea to use some mental ability on being aware of what's going on with your
bike. (Velvet started that thread too :-) But it still helps.
--
Mark South
Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net
<<Tiens! Ce poulet a une grenade!>>

Peter Clinch said:

Velvet said:

Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the learning
process...

You've told yourself it will happen, though that is not necessarily the
case. For example, I never keeled over while getting used to them (I've
gone over a few times /since/, mainly on the MTB, once in the middle of
trying to ford the South Esk...), though I never got hurt, my first pair
were donated to my cycling flatmate who never keeled over in them, and
Roos learned to use them on Real Roads while also learning to ride a
'bent /and/ using my SPuD sandals which were size too big, and she
didn't keel over during the process (or since, I think).

It is not inevitable you will fall over, and the only way to get used to
them is by using them on a real bike on real roads. So stop imagining
obstacles for yourself, and start using your SPuDs! Otherwise you will
never "graduate" to them, because you've set circular reasoning in place
not to (start using them when experienced, not experienced yet so don't
use them, don't use them so no experience, so don't start using them
yet, etc. etc.). All it takes is a can-do attitude and getting on with
it, and those hills will be easier too.

Pete.

I'll use them when I'm ready for them, ta :-) I *want* to, but I don't
want to set myself more hurdles than I can jump over.

I can see no good reason why I should add spd's into the equation of
cycling in traffic when I'm still not able to signal in traffic.
Signalling, to me, is something I need to get under my belt before I
start having to think about unclipping, and I can do without being
nervous about unclipping/falling off whilst in traffic while I master
that :-)

--

Velvet

Velvet said:

I can see no good reason why I should add spd's into the equation of
cycling in traffic when I'm still not able to signal in traffic.
Signalling, to me, is something I need to get under my belt before I
start having to think about unclipping

This is fair reasoning, though to be brutally honest and to shift the
topic a little I'd say it's a pretty questionable idea being in traffic
/at all/ if you feel you can't signal safely yet.
I'd be inclined to take a day, weekend, whatever going up and down a
quiet, flat road practicing until you've got it, and not really worry
about much else until you have. It'll be boring, you'll feel daft, but
you'll get a lot safer as a result. There is no substitute for
practice, and a lot is better than a little, even if it means you miss a
few 50 mile tours just to go round in circles in residential streets.

Pete (who spent lots of time doing the rounds of the neighbourhood on
recumbent and unicycle making a fool of himself to get up to speed).
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

This is fair reasoning, though to be brutally honest and to shift the
topic a little I'd say it's a pretty questionable idea being in traffic
/at all/ if you feel you can't signal safely yet.
I'd be inclined to take a day, weekend, whatever going up and down a
quiet, flat road practicing until you've got it, and not really worry
about much else until you have. It'll be boring, you'll feel daft, but
you'll get a lot safer as a result. There is no substitute for
practice, and a lot is better than a little, even if it means you miss a
few 50 mile tours just to go round in circles in residential streets.

Pete (who spent lots of time doing the rounds of the neighbourhood on
recumbent and unicycle making a fool of himself to get up to speed).

True - but round here roads aren't quiet, or flat. I'm getting closer
to being able to manage it (little steps at a time), and I rarely tangle
with traffic if I'm on my own to any degree - or if I do, then I either
try and get my intentions over by clearly looking where I'm going and
positioning myself in the road as if I were a car in terms of
lane-hogging, or if it's the sort of junction that's not feasible or I
don't feel the traffic permits me, I'll just get off, walk across, get
back on. I'm well prepared for the car not realising what I'm up to,
but have to say most of them have either waited for me to make my move
simply *because* they're not sure what I'm doing, or the situation has
by then changed (I've slowed down, lights have changed, whatever) and
it's then a case that I'm making that move without requiring what
traffic might be around to actually alter what they're doing to
accommodate me.

A lot of the time I spend in traffic is with t'other half, an
accomplished cyclist of quite a few years experience, so have become
adept at hanging onto his back wheel and he does the signalling for the
both of us - I try not to let the gap get great enough that other
vehicles will start to think we're not going the same way, but if it
happens, then I'll revert to my method of finding a way to do it where I
don't have to rely on cars getting out of my way (to his frustration
some times, since it means he waits for me to catch back up!)

Then again, he did demonstrate that even cyclists used to spds fall off
with them the other weekend... ;-) So it's not just you lot
scaremongering about them that puts me off trying them at this point in
my learning-how-to-cycle-again curve :-)

--

Velvet

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark South

(') said:

A. set the release tension loose to start with,
B. practise for a quarter hour or so while leaning against a wall or
something
C. set your seat to its correct height - some people put the
seat lower so they will not fall so hard, but then your leg has less
strenght on the "panic pull" if you do need to get out in a hurry.
D. practise the little "I'm coming to a halt, I need to unclip" mantra
for the first few days.[1]

E. MAKE SURE THE BOLTS IN YOUR SHOES ARE REALLY TIGHT!

If the bolts come loose and the cleat starts slipping about
there's /no/ /way/ you can unclip.

How do I know this? I recently got a pair of new shoes and put the
cleats on losely 'while I find the right position for them'. Mistake!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Usenet: like distance learning without the learning.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark South

(') said:

A. set the release tension loose to start with,
B. practise for a quarter hour or so while leaning against a wall or
something
C. set your seat to its correct height - some people put the
seat lower so they will not fall so hard, but then your leg has less
strenght on the "panic pull" if you do need to get out in a hurry.
D. practise the little "I'm coming to a halt, I need to unclip" mantra
for the first few days.[1]

E. MAKE SURE THE BOLTS IN YOUR SHOES ARE REALLY TIGHT!

If the bolts come loose and the cleat starts slipping about
there's /no/ /way/ you can unclip.

How do I know this? I recently got a pair of new shoes and put the
cleats on losely 'while I find the right position for them'. Mistake!

Yeah, I did that too. I'm now an expert at removing cleats (without
shoes) from spds pedals. Brute force took care of removing the shoes
from the cleats... luckily the shoes survived.

Also luckily, this was all with the bike firmly on the turbo!!

--

Velvet

In news:[email hidden],
Velvet <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I did that too. I'm now an expert at removing cleats (without
shoes) from spds pedals. Brute force took care of removing the shoes
from the cleats... luckily the shoes survived.

Also luckily, this was all with the bike firmly on the turbo!!

I found it was OK to do get them off once you'd removed your feet, as you
could now twist the shoes enough to unclip them. Of course, the truly
flexible could turn their legs more than 90 degrees and not need to take
their shoes off.

A

Ambrose Nankivell said:

In news:[email hidden],
Velvet <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I did that too. I'm now an expert at removing cleats (without
shoes) from spds pedals. Brute force took care of removing the shoes
from the cleats... luckily the shoes survived.

Also luckily, this was all with the bike firmly on the turbo!!

I found it was OK to do get them off once you'd removed your feet, as you
could now twist the shoes enough to unclip them. Of course, the truly
flexible could turn their legs more than 90 degrees and not need to take
their shoes off.

A

Mine wouldn't unclip even with my feet out of the shoes - they (despite
having been loosed off on the pedals) were incredibly stiff. The cleats
were turning in the shoes along those two slots, rather than the cleat
twisting out of the pedal.

I probably burned more calories in the hour it took to finally free all
the bits (from *both* sides) than I would have being on the bike and
actually cycling.

--

Velvet

"Simonb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Velvet said:

Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the learning
process...

I have never fallen as a result of using clipless pedals, falling is not
inevitable.

Seconded.
Paul.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark South

(') said:

A. set the release tension loose to start with,
B. practise for a quarter hour or so while leaning against a wall or
something
C. set your seat to its correct height - some people put the
seat lower so they will not fall so hard, but then your leg has less
strenght on the "panic pull" if you do need to get out in a hurry.
D. practise the little "I'm coming to a halt, I need to unclip" mantra
for the first few days.[1]

E. MAKE SURE THE BOLTS IN YOUR SHOES ARE REALLY TIGHT!

Actually, I typed that one in and then deleted it on the gorunds that it was too
obvious....

Quoted message said:

If the bolts come loose and the cleat starts slipping about
there's /no/ /way/ you can unclip.

How do I know this? I recently got a pair of new shoes and put the
cleats on losely 'while I find the right position for them'. Mistake!

LOL!

I also thought that I might have added

F. If you want to get out more easily, use a pair of old cleats that are nicely
worn in. They have more float too.
--
Mark South
Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net
<<Tiens! Ce poulet a une grenade!>>

Velvet [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the learning
process...

Falling over does not come as part of the learning process. You will be
happily clipping in and out for weeks before coming to an embarrassing
halt at a junction.

Jon

Jon Senior said:

Falling over does not come as part of the learning process. You will be
happily clipping in and out for weeks before coming to an embarrassing
halt at a junction.

Jon

Yebbut I don't fancy that either ;-)

--

Velvet

Velvet said:

Jon Senior said:

Falling over does not come as part of the learning process. You will be
happily clipping in and out for weeks before coming to an embarrassing
halt at a junction.

Jon

Yebbut I don't fancy that either ;-)

But it gives so much enjoyment to the assembled crowds [1]
Spoilsport ;-)

[1] Rule 452 says you will only fall off when people are looking.

John B

Velvet said:

Quoted message said:

Velvet said:

Unless you don't fancy the inevitable falling over during the learning
process...

Quoted message said:

I'll use them when I'm ready for them, ta :-) I *want* to, but I don't
want to set myself more hurdles than I can jump over.

Yes, and in the meantime you're suggesting to other people that clipless
pedals are a bigger problem than they really are (for most people).
There's nothing inevitable about it.

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He had delusions of adequacy." - Walter Kerr
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

JohnB said:

Velvet said:

Jon Senior said:

Falling over does not come as part of the learning process. You will be
happily clipping in and out for weeks before coming to an embarrassing
halt at a junction.

Jon

Yebbut I don't fancy that either ;-)

But it gives so much enjoyment to the assembled crowds [1]
Spoilsport ;-)

[1] Rule 452 says you will only fall off when people are looking.

John B

But no one sees cyclists so it won't happen. ;-)
--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "I've just learned about his illness. Let's hope it's
nothing trivial." - Irvin S. Cobb
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk