Cunego

Surely there are too many others though that can also climb and are already better placed than him. Never say never because the mountains always carve things up but I'd be surprised.

Oh and on the Lim / Thunder thing .. it's a forum not Aunt Gladys tea room!

plectrum said:

Surely there are too many others though that can also climb and are already better placed than him. Never say never because the mountains always carve things up but I'd be surprised.

Well, like you said. Let us see what happens in the mountains. I must admit that I am curious to see if Cunego can step up to the challenge.

Powerful Pete said:

Well, like you said. Let us see what happens in the mountains. I must admit that I am curious to see if Cunego can step up to the challenge.

Cunego = Valverde Lite

I just cant figure out how he won the Giro in 04 unless there was some strategic mix up among his main rivals...yes I know he screwed Simoni, but it doesn't explain how a novice could take a GC like at such a young age and not show anywhere near the same levels in the next 4 years

Yes I know he has done very well in one day classics, and a Tour of Switzerland ... but has he "matured" into a specialist for the shorter mountains?

He hasnt impressed me in his main GC ambition, the Giro , in 2005-2008.

No reason to believe he's going to trouble the top 5 now. No way he's going to explode the field on the high mtn stages.

Powerful Pete said:

Well, from a purely numbers standpoint, I have to disagree. If he were to climb with the big boys and only lose a minute in the TT he could easily stay in the top ten, if not better.

Of course, there are two big 'ifs' there: (i) he can climb with the best of them; and (ii) he can limit his losses in the TT. And thus far I will agree with you that he is not looking too good.

It is not good enough to just climb with the group. He should be able to attack and be able to gain about 3-4 minutes over the competition (considering that he is 2 minutes down at present). That is tough, but we'll see.

TheDarkLord said:

It is not good enough to just climb with the group. He should be able to attack and be able to gain about 3-4 minutes over the competition (considering that he is 2 minutes down at present). That is tough, but we'll see.

Or he could just wait for the other guys to get dropped... 😉

wicklow200 said:

Cunego = Valverde Lite

I just cant figure out how he won the Giro in 04 unless there was some strategic mix up among his main rivals...yes I know he screwed Simoni, but it doesn't explain how a novice could take a GC like at such a young age and not show anywhere near the same levels in the next 4 years

Yes I know he has done very well in one day classics, and a Tour of Switzerland ... but has he "matured" into a specialist for the shorter mountains?

He hasnt impressed me in his main GC ambition, the Giro , in 2005-2008.

No reason to believe he's going to trouble the top 5 now. No way he's going to explode the field on the high mtn stages.

If I recall correctly Cunego had a relatively poor start to the 2006 TDF as well.
That year he finished 11th overall on GC (his first TDF).

Granted he is not going well in this TDF, certainly based on today stage.

I'm not a Cunego fan - but I am amazed at how at people wrote the guy off before the start of todays stage.

Given his form of his one and only TDF, in which he finished 11th on GC and given that the first 5 stages of this years TDF have been flat, it would be reasonable to assume that he would not have been prominent (before today) on GC.

That was the point I was trying to make before the start of todays stage.

Powerful Pete said:

Or he could just wait for the other guys to get dropped... 😉

Ah, but who is going to do the attacking then? If not him, some other GC rider?

limerickman said:

Given his form of his one and only TDF, in which he finished 11th on GC and given that the first 5 stages of this years TDF have been flat, it would be reasonable to assume that he would not have been prominent (before today) on GC.

That was the point I was trying to make before the start of todays stage.

Today was stage 7 though. Stage 6 yesterday finished with a slightly interrupted 10km climb, preceded by a cat 2, 17km climb up la Croix-Morand (albeit not that steep).

Having said that... thunder... you're way out of line mate. Apart from being rude... the minute you swing to personal abuse in the argument... you lose (unless you're really good at it, which you aren't... [img]cyclingforums.comwink.gifOpen ↗[/img]). So crawl out of ya cot, pick up your dummy/pacifier, say sorry to Lim, and crawl back in.

Ya give Aussies a bad name... ya bogan.... [img]cyclingforums.comtongue.gifOpen ↗[/img]

do all the people hating and doubting on Cunego realized that the two stages where he didn't figure as well as he should have he crashed? today he crashed right when the csc led peleton was in full flight. in the TT he did pretty much exactly as expected.

i don't get it.. can't figure out why all the haters are saying he is so badly off form and won't finish top ten... he will easily top ten as long as he stops crashing.

doctorSpoc said:

do all the people hating and doubting on Cunego realized that the two stages where he didn't figure as well as he should have he crashed? today he crashed right when the csc led peleton was in full flight. in the TT he did pretty much exactly as expected.

i don't get it.. can't figure out why all the haters are saying he is so badly off form and won't finish top ten... he will easily top ten as long as he stops crashing.

I never understand what the big deal is about coming 10th is in any case. I mean there are about 18 GC contenders in the race (if you assume some teams have none... and CSC arguably has three). So coming 10th means you have finished mid-pack, assuming you beat all the "helpers". It still means you are one of the best cyclists in the world. But it doesn't mean you have come 10th out of 180 riders. If another team's domestique beats you... then considering he wasted a lot of energy protecting his leader... it's not a great accomplishment.

Okay diss me. I wasn't saying these guys aren't good. Just saying that only about 10% of the field are racing for GC. Just like only 10% of the field approximately are giving their all in the ITTs.

Crankyfeet said:

I never understand what the big deal is about coming 10th is in any case. I mean there are about 18 GC contenders in the race (if you assume some teams have none... and CSC arguably has three). So coming 10th means you have finished mid-pack, assuming you beat all the "helpers". It still means you are one of the best cyclists in the world. But it doesn't mean you have come 10th out of 180 riders. If another team's domestique beats you... then considering he wasted a lot of energy protecting his leader... it's not a great accomplishment.

Okay diss me. I wasn't saying these guys aren't good. Just saying that only about 10% of the field are racing for GC. Just like only 10% of the field approximately are giving their all in the ITTs.

think you missed my point.. my point is that Cunego's less than expected results in the last two stages are primarily a result of him crashing in both stages and shouldn't be used as a measure of his fitness. i'm not sure that those that are saying Cunego is on bad legs realized he's crashed two days in a row.

i don't see people saying that Menchov is on bad legs because he lost 40 seconds behind a crash on stage 3... that would be stupid. he had bad luck. just like it would be stupid to say the same of Cunego who has also had some bad luck... how is being caught behind a crash or going down in a crash an indication of his form? i'm guessing that the people saying he's on bad form don't actually know the circumstances of his results.

EDIT - i'd actually add that the fact that he was able to get back to the front after being in the 3rd group on the road shows what good form he is in... only getting gapped on the final climb after that herculean effort to get back on the front i think that's understandable... i didn't expect see him to get back to the front at all...

doctorSpoc said:

EDIT - i'd actually add that the fact that he was able to get back to the front after being in the 3rd group on the road shows what good form he is in... only getting gapped on the final climb after that herculean effort to get back on the front i think that's understandable... i didn't expect see him to get back to the front at all...

Does it really reflect on Cunego's form? His teammates did all the work.

doctorSpoc said:

think you missed my point.. my point is that Cunego's less than expected results in the last two stages are primarily a result of him crashing in both stages and shouldn't be used as a measure of his fitness. i'm not sure that those that are saying Cunego is on bad legs realized he's crashed two days in a row.

i don't see people saying that Menchov is on bad legs because he lost 40 seconds behind a crash on stage 3... that would be stupid. he had bad luck. just like it would be stupid to say the same of Cunego who has also had some bad luck... how is being caught behind a crash or going down in a crash an indication of his form? i'm guessing that the people saying he's on bad form don't actually know the circumstances of his results.

EDIT - i'd actually add that the fact that he was able to get back to the front after being in the 3rd group on the road shows what good form he is in... only getting gapped on the final climb after that herculean effort to get back on the front i think that's understandable... i didn't expect see him to get back to the front at all...

On Monday--maybe even Sunday--we will know everything. But the signs do not look good for his overall position in Paris. These little uphill endings are a where he should have been expected to gain a few seconds, maybe even grab a stage win. I thought this year's course would suit him because of its fewer time trial kilometers and its tricky stages would be good for someone who knows how to ride a one day race by staying in front and not getting involved in mishaps. The latter has not proven to be true.

His time trial really was good for him though. Losing a minute to Evans over 29K is probably the best a rider like him could hope for.

Catching the CSC group after their attack on Friday was good sign of Cunego's form (at least TT form). But, in general, things don't look good for him so far...
He doesn't look good (especially after crashes and poor showing on short uphill finishes).

Edit:
It was very good, strong, effort from Cunego when CSC put the hammer down.

TheDarkLord said:

Does it really reflect on Cunego's form? His teammates did all the work.

??? LOL... yes it does!!!

how much work did any of the other contenders do? how much work do you think Sastre was doing when Cancellara was hammering at the front and almost dropped him out of the lead group? how much comparable work was Cunego doing at the same time following his team mates who were going faster than that lead group in order to catch it? only thing his team mates got to stop but he had to continue with that group over a 2nd cat climb after a long period going faster than any of them did and they had an even better draft than Cunego had. have you ever raced before? it doesn't sound like it... Cunego performed well today in getting back to the lead group and losing as little time as he did.

Edit - and Cunego wasn't just following team mates.. he took the bull by the horns and did some pulling himself too.. so even as you phrased it, it's not accurate..

limerickman said:

If I recall correctly Cunego had a relatively poor start to the 2006 TDF as well.
That year he finished 11th overall on GC (his first TDF).

Granted he is not going well in this TDF, certainly based on today stage.

I'm not a Cunego fan - but I am amazed at how at people wrote the guy off before the start of todays stage.

Given his form of his one and only TDF, in which he finished 11th on GC and given that the first 5 stages of this years TDF have been flat, it would be reasonable to assume that he would not have been prominent (before today) on GC.

That was the point I was trying to make before the start of todays stage.

Well he will be lucky to make the top 10 this time around.

He just doesnt impress me on high mountain stages. He does seem to be consistent, finishing top 20 on such stages, but that isnt good enough.

On Monday even the visibly very weak Valverde caught up to him by the finisih.

Lim, you shoulda listened to me. I told you Cunego was farked.

thunder said:

Lim, you shoulda listened to me. I told you Cunego was farked.

and you should have listened to me when I backed schumacher to win the stage.

limerickman said:

and you should have listened to me when I backed schumacher to win the stage.

lol

he has gone out the [censored] lim

thunder said:

lol

he has gone out the [censored] lim

Cunego isn't going well.
Accepted.