Crazy Accident

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Nate: There's more profit to be made if the shop sells a bike to a
*different* customer than twice to the same one. The guy who had the bike
destroyed isn't going to be coming back in for all manner of accessories etc
twice as much, just because he had to buy a second bike. And the shop
selling the bike "twice" as you believe... they still have to pay to have it
assembled, carrying costs (finance charges), freight, etc etc. And if it was
a desirable bike that's tough for them to get, they might lose a sale to
somebody else who comes in. Ultimately, it comes down to what the shop does
with its money. There's only so much of it to go around; money spent on
inventory can't be used for something else. Missed opportunity costs, as
they teach in economics.

And finally, given that this isn't the shop's fault or the customer's, why
in the world would you want the person responsible for such an accident to
get a break at someone else's expense? This will hopefully be a matter for
an insurance company, and that insurance company darned well better be
willing to pay up pronto, and in-full.

The bike shop's responsibility in this case is to help coordinate things
with the insurance company to get the guy back on a bike as quickly as
possible. And I imagine they will.

I guess I should know that. The owner of my favorite shop use too help
people out when [censored] like this happened, and he went out of business 10
years back. Just sucks.

-Nate

Bad Idea said:

Fault and insurance have nothing to do with anything. All for-profit
businesses are just cash piles for the public to dip into at their
convience.

It is a matter of providing the greatest pleasure for the greatest
number of people. I, for one, would love to see a bike shop owner torn
apart by a pack of rabid suicidal squirrels. I am sure that many would
agree. So, let's get to it!

-Mike

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Friend of a friend bought a ~$2000 Specialized bike at a bike shop. He
walks out to his car (the Audi in the pictures) turns around to see a
car jump the curb at high speed (flying at him about waist level -- no
joke). He drops the bike and dives for cover. The car (The Chevy) hits
his bike and barrels into his car. This all happens in the bike shop
parking lot ~20ft from the front door.

As long as the driver was insured and didn't do it on purpose, his
insurance should cover everything. (If he did it on purpose, his
insurance most likely excludes coverage for intentional acts. Then
your friend's insurance would cover the damage and go after the
driver in subrogation.)

Quoted message said:

Bike shop said, "You bought the bike and walked out the door, not our
problem."

Any thoughts? Sure, it's not the shops fault, but I thought the shop
should help out a little - at least give him a new bike at cost. From
what I hear we have yet to see what the insurance will do.

The driver's insurance should pay the full cost of replacing the
bike, no reason the shop should have to cut a lower price on it.

--
[email hidden] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Books for Bicycle Mechanics and Tinkerers:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikebooks.html>

none said:

... I, for one, would love to see a bike shop owner torn
apart by a pack of rabid suicidal squirrels. I am sure
that many would agree. So, let's get to it!

-Mike

Many do agree, not me. The headlines document the results of your
fellow "rabid suicidal squirrels" actions (Jordan). You should emulate
them in an open field far from humans and valuable property.

Llatikcuf said:

Any thoughts? Sure, it's not the shops fault, but I thought the shop
should help out a little - at least give him a new bike at cost. From
what I hear we have yet to see what the insurance will do.

are you kidding? IT WAS THE DRIVER'S FAULT. the shop had
nothing to do with it. he needs to go after the driver's
insurance company.

Llatikcuf said:

Friend of a friend bought a ~$2000 Specialized bike at a bike shop. He
walks out to his car (the Audi in the pictures) turns around to see a
car jump the curb at high speed (flying at him about waist level -- no
joke). He drops the bike and dives for cover. The car (The Chevy) hits
his bike and barrels into his car. This all happens in the bike shop
parking lot ~20ft from the front door.

http://www.bicyclecenter.com/accident/

Bike shop said, "You bought the bike and walked out the door, not our
problem."

Any thoughts? Sure, it's not the shops fault, but I thought the shop
should help out a little - at least give him a new bike at cost. From
what I hear we have yet to see what the insurance will do.

-Nate

I don't think the bike shop has any obligation at all. This is a job
for insurance companys. The bike shop works at low enough margins as it
is...

Llatikcuf said:

Quoted message said:

Why on earth should the shop pay for some idiot's actions.......

I suggested the shop help him out and give him the same bike AT THEIR
COST! The shop pays/loses nothing.

-Nate

Ahhh, the ignorance of the customer. Any time the shop sells anything
for less than the recognized price margin to keep the lights on, they
lose money...Selling at cost means they lose money.

Llatikcuf said:

Clarification to previous post:

I am not suggesting the shop give him a new bike at the cost of the
shop, that is ridicules. I am suggesting that the shop offer him a
replacement discounted to the shops cost. The shop made the profit for
their sale, why should he pay it twice? Is this such a crazy idea?

Because they lose the margin that they could have had by selling to
another 'customer'.

I've

Quoted message said:

seen shops offer a crash replacement program, what's the difference?

Because these are supported financially by the manufacturer.

Quoted message said:

I guess if the insurance is pays it does not make much difference
though.

-Nate

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I don't think the bike shop has any obligation at all. This is a job
for insurance companys. The bike shop works at low enough margins as it
is...

Exactly. As about a hundred others have said, the bike shop has no
obligation to make it easier on the insurance company. Maybe they can
throw in a nice pair of shoes or shorts as a "thank you" when the
customer picks up the new bike.

Or maybe body armor would be more appropriate for someone with the
customer's luck...

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Llatikcuf said:

Clarification to previous post:

I am not suggesting the shop give him a new bike at the cost of the
shop, that is ridicules. I am suggesting that the shop offer him a
replacement discounted to the shops cost. The shop made the profit for
their sale, why should he pay it twice? Is this such a crazy idea?

Because they lose the margin that they could have had by selling to
another 'customer'.

I'm surprised that no one, especially the numerous shop owners who've
contributed to this thread, have mentioned the potentially greater
profit inherent in creating an incredibly loyal customer.

No one's suggesting that the shop sell the bike for their invoice
price. Shop cost includes things like assembly.

For the sake of argument, let's assume a similar scenario but one where
there's no potential insurance payment involved. Factor in a
reasonable $$ amount to cover the overhead, sell the bike to the poor
guy at a reasonable price and create tremendous goodwill and
word-of-mouth advertising.

It's so much easier to keep a customer than to get one, so why lose one
who may have (make that 'most likely would have'😉 brought you others?

Llatikcuf wrote:
problem."

Quoted message said:

Any thoughts? Sure, it's not the shops fault, but I thought the shop
should help out a little - at least give him a new bike at cost. From
what I hear we have yet to see what the insurance will do.

Why? He'll get the full value of the bike (with profit) from the dd GM
driver. If the shop made any contribution to the problem, then they may
owe, but they didn't.

A few years ago I was walking out of a pizza place with a To Go. A wind
came up and blew my pizza out of my hands. It hit the ground - complete
loss. I went back in, ordered a new one at full cost. A woman there said
hte pizza place *owed* me a new pizza, but I couldn't see the logic.

I guess this woman and you need to meet. Match made in heaven.

Sure are crazy people in this world, isn't there?
Thankfully, your friend wasn't hurt. That's the most important thing.

I'd be more worried about the much more valuable car never being the
same after hitting the body/paint shop, rather than the bike, but this
is of course a bike group here.

As others have said, doesn't make a difference whether it was 20 minutes
after he bought it, or 20 days, the Bike shop owes no responsibility,
nor should feel obligated to offer any compensation, even if the person
involved was their very best customer.

Since the bike was brand spanking new, and the bill, testimony from the
owner, and shop owner confirm this, the insurance company shouldn't be
bringing in any fancy BS to this claim stating any depreciation of the
bike.

The Insurance company, and the driver, should both be very happy that
the driver didn't shear both of your friend's legs off.

If it's a good insurance company, like State Farm, they usually asess
the damage, write a check to the owner, and usually more than fairly
compensate/overestimate for the actual value of the bike, personal
property, and the car damage.

The bike shop, if it is a good one, will probably offer a bit of
compensation to the Bike owner, by giving him a little bit of a discount
on a new helmet, or the like, but that should be about it.
Mark

Paul Cassel said:

A few years ago I was walking out of a pizza place with a To Go. A
wind came up and blew my pizza out of my hands. It hit the ground -
complete loss.

So [censored] like that DOESN'T just happen to me?!? (Funny when it's someone
else LOL )

Quoted message said:

I went back in, ordered a new one at full cost. A
woman there said hte pizza place *owed* me a new pizza, but I
couldn't see the logic.
I guess this woman and you {deleted poster} need to meet. Match made in
heaven.

"It's always someone else's fault" -- the scourge of our times, I think.
(One of many maybe.) Taking personal responsibility (like you did) is a
vanishing virtue, even when it's "just a pizza"...

Bill "good thing no one slipped on one of your pepperonis" S.

Bill Sornson said:

Bill "good thing no one slipped on one of your pepperonis" S.

I cleaned them from the parking lot. Getting the *#&# cheese out of the
pavement wasn't all that easy either but I felt not to clean it was the
same as just leaving a blown tube by the side of the road.

How did you know it was pepperoni? Amazing what you run into on the
Usenet.

Paul Cassel said:

A few years ago I was walking out of a pizza place with a To Go. A wind
came up and blew my pizza out of my hands. It hit the ground - complete
loss.

Marie: You live here? Oh, it's nice. Did you decorate it?
Navin: Yeah, I got all this stuff from the old Cup 'o Pizza place
before they tore it down.
Marie: Good pizza. (the two of them are eating pizza in a cup)
Navin: Oh, this is the best pizza in a cup ever. This guy is
unbelievable. He ran the old Cup 'o Pizza guy out of business. People
come from all over to eat this.

At any rate, not a total loss. There's always Pizza in a Cup!

Quoted message said:

Ahhh, the ignorance of the customer. Any time the shop sells anything
for less than the recognized price margin to keep the lights on, they
lose money...Selling at cost means they lose money.

Ah, but it gets worse. You may not have this issue, but we have over the
years- an employee who thinks you're making money off them if you sell them
something at cost + 10%. Never mind that overall profit margins after
expenses come to, what, 2-5% of sales? Receiving costs, book keeping, rent,
insurance of various types... all unavoidable expenses that are shared
across everything that passes through the door. So selling at cost + 10%
means you're subsidizing a great chunk of that purchase. So if employees
think that, it shouldn't be too hard to understand customers believing what
they do.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Llatikcuf said:

Quoted message said:

Why on earth should the shop pay for some idiot's actions.......

I suggested the shop help him out and give him the same bike AT THEIR
COST! The shop pays/loses nothing.

-Nate

Ahhh, the ignorance of the customer. Any time the shop sells anything
for less than the recognized price margin to keep the lights on, they
lose money...Selling at cost means they lose money.

Quoted message said:

I'm surprised that no one, especially the numerous shop owners who've
contributed to this thread, have mentioned the potentially greater
profit inherent in creating an incredibly loyal customer.

No one's suggesting that the shop sell the bike for their invoice
price. Shop cost includes things like assembly.

For the sake of argument, let's assume a similar scenario but one where
there's no potential insurance payment involved. Factor in a
reasonable $$ amount to cover the overhead, sell the bike to the poor
guy at a reasonable price and create tremendous goodwill and
word-of-mouth advertising.

It's so much easier to keep a customer than to get one, so why lose one
who may have (make that 'most likely would have'😉 brought you others?

Because there's literally no limit to that logic. You could create thousands
of "incredibly loyal customers" that way... if you could afford to do so.
But obviously that's not a sustainable business practice.

You may, of course, argue that this is a rather exceptional case, and the
positive PR from the publicity/notoriety is something to be considered. And
perhaps there'd be something to that, *if* this were something where the
bike owner was going to be the person who eats the loss. But that shouldn't
be the case here; anything done to "help" the bike owner is also letting off
the person who ran into it.

Too bad it wouldn't make sense to buy back the remains of the bike (at
something above scrap value) and put it on display... trouble is, I can't
think of a positive message that it could convey, only negatives (cycling is
dangerous, cars are evil, that sort of thing). I just can't see how you
could turn this into something that would encourage people to ride more.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Llatikcuf said:

Clarification to previous post:

I am not suggesting the shop give him a new bike at the cost of the
shop, that is ridicules. I am suggesting that the shop offer him a
replacement discounted to the shops cost. The shop made the profit for
their sale, why should he pay it twice? Is this such a crazy idea?

Because they lose the margin that they could have had by selling to
another 'customer'.

I'm surprised that no one, especially the numerous shop owners who've
contributed to this thread, have mentioned the potentially greater
profit inherent in creating an incredibly loyal customer.

No one's suggesting that the shop sell the bike for their invoice
price. Shop cost includes things like assembly.

For the sake of argument, let's assume a similar scenario but one where
there's no potential insurance payment involved. Factor in a
reasonable $$ amount to cover the overhead, sell the bike to the poor
guy at a reasonable price and create tremendous goodwill and
word-of-mouth advertising.

It's so much easier to keep a customer than to get one, so why lose one
who may have (make that 'most likely would have'😉 brought you others?

Paul Cassel said:

I guess this woman and you need to meet. Match made in heaven.

Thanks man.

Scott said:

It's so much easier to keep a customer than to get one, so why lose one
who may have (make that 'most likely would have'😉 brought you others?

because the driver's insurance company should pay the full cost,
that's why! he's hardly going to lose the customer by not
providing it at "cost".

you obviously don't have any kind of clue about how small
businesses run, or how they become successful and keep their
customers. you also obviously don't want to be confused by the
facts, so into the killfile with you *and* this thread.

Leo Lichtman said:

"Colin Campbell" wrote: (clip) If I owned the bike shop, I'd say, "We
already called Specialized to order you a replacement bike. It'll be here
ready for you in a few days. You can have your trade-in back to ride until
things are straightened out." What happened in the parking lot isn't their
problem.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You write a nice, fanciful fairy tale. The owner of the shop has bills to
pay. He pays for insurance, but this loss was not his, and will not be
covered. The driver of the out-of-control car is responsible, so if he was
insured, the car and the bike will both be taken care of. What logic is
there to say the bike shop should replace anything? Should they also repair
the car?

Leo,
I know the bike shop has no liability. I was only suggesting that they
could order the poor guy a replacement bike, which he would of course
pay for when things were settled (or, since he apparently has a fair
amount of money - witness the Audi and new bike - he might decide to pay
for _before_ getting his settlement.

I didn't mean for you or anyone to understand that I was suggesting the
bike shop owed the owner of the new bike anything. But if they made
sure he knew that they sympathized, it couldn't hurt their reputation.