Cycling Equipment · Public discussion

Crank size difference--will it really help?

Started by caaron · · Last activity · 26 posts · 1,114 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Cycling Equipment
Published
25 September 2005
Last activity
29 September 2005
Original author
caaron
Posts
26
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,114
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 26
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. I've been riding my Trek 5200 with 172.5 Ultegra cranks. Recently I was
    getting refitted to the bike to help with numbness in my hands and we ended
    up moving the seat position and also raising the handlebars. After we did
    that it was suggested that I should really be riding on 165mm cranks because
    I have short legs. I'm seeking opinions re:

    Will there be a noticeable difference in performance with shorter cranks?

    How hard is it to change out Ultegra cranks--do I need special tools?

    Do I change the cranks themselves or do I also have to change the gears (it
    is a triple) with the cranks as a set?

    Thanks in advance...

    Chuck

  2. Quoted message said:

    I've been riding my Trek 5200 with 172.5 Ultegra cranks. Recently I was
    getting refitted to the bike to help with numbness in my hands and we
    ended up moving the seat position and also raising the handlebars. After
    we did that it was suggested that I should really be riding on 165mm
    cranks because I have short legs. I'm seeking opinions re:

    Will there be a noticeable difference in performance with shorter cranks?

    How hard is it to change out Ultegra cranks--do I need special tools?

    Do I change the cranks themselves or do I also have to change the gears
    (it is a triple) with the cranks as a set?

    Thanks in advance...

    Chuck

    Chuck: Hard to believe you'd fit a 5200 that came (stock) with 172.5mm
    cranks and have legs short enough to justify 165mm. Rarely do I find someone
    that would fit even a 50cm bike that would benefit greatly from 165mm
    cranks... generally, that would be more likely for the length of leg seen on
    a 48cm or smaller. Generally; your mileage may vary.

    You can buy just crank arms, but I wouldn't, as a pair of crank arms cost as
    much, or more, than a new set of cranks. Given that chainrings do wear out,
    the new set would make more sense. But I wouldn't go to 165mm without trying
    some first. Changing them out is no big thing; in fact, on Ultegra, all
    you'll need is an allen key (8mm? Not at the shop right now, so I don't have
    one to look at).

    But we really need to know how tall you are, what your inseam is, and maybe
    even the size of bike (just to get an idea how the whole package fits
    together).

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  3. "caaron" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    I've been riding my Trek 5200 with 172.5 Ultegra cranks. Recently I
    was getting refitted to the bike to help with numbness in my hands and
    we ended up moving the seat position and also raising the handlebars.
    After we did that it was suggested that I should really be riding on
    165mm cranks because I have short legs. I'm seeking opinions re:

    Will there be a noticeable difference in performance with shorter
    cranks?

    How hard is it to change out Ultegra cranks--do I need special tools?

    Do I change the cranks themselves or do I also have to change the
    gears (it is a triple) with the cranks as a set?

    Thanks in advance...

    Chuck

    I think Sheldon's a fan of 165s, at least for fixies.

    From http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/cranks.html

    "165 mm is Good!
    We generally recommend 165 mm length cranks for road fixed-gear use.
    This shorter length makes it easier to spin faster cadences, and also
    reduces the risk of striking a pedal while cornering (with a fixed gear,
    where you have to pedal through the corners, this can be an issue.)"

    The 5200 was last made with the Ultegra 6503 crank, which was the last
    of the 3-piece models. I'm assuming that's the model you have.

    Depending on whether you have integrated pullers currently, it could be
    as simple as using an 8mm allen wrench and 15mm pedal wrench to make the
    switch. At worst, you'd also need an octalink-compatible puller,
    probably $10-15.

    You'd be best off buying the complete crankset and getting new rings.
    The right arm alone is only $20 cheaper than the whole set.

    This, of course, assumes you can find a place that still has the
    6503/165 in stock, because I don't think QBP has them anymore.

    I guess Airbomb claims to have them, $175.99

    http://store.airbomb.com/ItemDesc.asp?IC=CR6340

    Another option would be to get a Sugino XD600 and a Shimano UN-73 Bottom
    bracket, for a little more than half the price of the Ultegra crank. It
    has 46-36-26 rings, but some lower gears would be good with the shorter
    crankarms.

  4. caaron said:

    I've been riding my Trek 5200 with 172.5 Ultegra cranks. Recently I
    was getting refitted to the bike to help with numbness in my hands
    and we ended up moving the seat position and also raising the
    handlebars. After we did that it was suggested that I should really
    be riding on 165mm cranks because I have short legs. I'm seeking
    opinions re:
    Will there be a noticeable difference in performance with shorter
    cranks?
    How hard is it to change out Ultegra cranks--do I need special tools?

    Do I change the cranks themselves or do I also have to change the
    gears (it is a triple) with the cranks as a set?

    Thanks in advance...

    Chuck

    We need more data. What is your inseam and height?

    I'm 5'5", 29" inseam, ride a 48cm bike that came equipped with 165mm cranks
    and it was surprising how much I struggled on the first ride to keep up with
    the group. I switched them out for 172.5s and I was happy... happy as a...
    hippo. Then again, I had been using 172.5s before and probably had some
    muscle memory.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training

  5. caaron said:

    I've been riding my Trek 5200 with 172.5 Ultegra cranks. Recently I was
    getting refitted to the bike to help with numbness in my hands and we ended
    up moving the seat position and also raising the handlebars. After we did
    that it was suggested that I should really be riding on 165mm cranks because
    I have short legs. I'm seeking opinions re:

    Will there be a noticeable difference in performance with shorter cranks?

    Well, that is a big jump, so, yeah, you probably will notice the
    difference. How short are your legs? Usually it does not matter all that
    much what crank length you use; you will become accustomed to what you
    have. But for really long or short legs, it might be worth dealing with.

    Quoted message said:


    How hard is it to change out Ultegra cranks--do I need special tools?

    A couple. You need a crank puller. This is a small tool that is quite
    inexpensive. Much less expensive than the cranks themselves. You have to
    know what sort of crank you have (year, not just model), to get the right
    one.

    Quoted message said:


    Do I change the cranks themselves or do I also have to change the gears
    (it is a triple) with the cranks as a set?

    You may be able to find just the arms, but you will have to search for
    them. More commonly they come with rings. How old are the current ones?
    How much wear do they have? Maybe it would be worthwhile to change them.
    Worst case scenario is that you would have extra rings for when the
    current ones wear out, if you can't find bare cranks.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | "It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
    _`\(,_ |
    (_)/ (_) |

  6. I ride a 2001 Trek 5200 that is 54cm. I'm 163# and just short of 5'9" tall
    and have a long torso and short legs. My inseam is 30" and the distance
    from the top of my femur to the floor is 89cm. Based on Peter White's
    18.5% calculation guideline, 165mm cranks would be just right. Similar
    calculations from Ergobike (edward ZImmermann's bicycle sizing site) also
    come out at 165mm.

    Previously I had a 58cm Trek 5200, which I found too big to ride
    comfortably, so I got the 54cm Trek a few years ago and it seems to be a
    better fit. At age 60 I find I need the handlebars higher for comfort and
    I'm a recreational rider, not a racer, so my rides average about 15mph.
    I've always had trouble spinning fast, and although I can get up into the
    high 90's I find my average cadence is in the low to mid-eighties on most of
    my road rides. So I was wondering if changing over to the 165mm cranks
    would make enough of a difference in comfort and cadence to make it
    worthwhile to do the change and what downside there might be, if any...

    Thanks for the replies

    Chuck

    "caaron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've been riding my Trek 5200 with 172.5 Ultegra cranks. Recently I was
    getting refitted to the bike to help with numbness in my hands and we
    ended up moving the seat position and also raising the handlebars. After
    we did that it was suggested that I should really be riding on 165mm
    cranks because I have short legs. I'm seeking opinions re:

    Will there be a noticeable difference in performance with shorter cranks?

    How hard is it to change out Ultegra cranks--do I need special tools?

    Do I change the cranks themselves or do I also have to change the gears
    (it is a triple) with the cranks as a set?

    Thanks in advance...

    Chuck

  7. "caaron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've been riding my Trek 5200 with 172.5 Ultegra cranks. Recently I was
    getting refitted to the bike to help with numbness in my hands and we
    ended up moving the seat position and also raising the handlebars. After
    we did that it was suggested that I should really be riding on 165mm
    cranks because I have short legs. I'm seeking opinions re:

    Will there be a noticeable difference in performance with shorter cranks?

    How hard is it to change out Ultegra cranks--do I need special tools?

    Do I change the cranks themselves or do I also have to change the gears
    (it is a triple) with the cranks as a set?

    Thanks in advance...

    Chuck


    When I got my new bike, I begin to worry whether I had the correct crankarm
    length. I considered spending hundreds of dollars to replace my brand new
    excellent crankset. I read lots of different ideas about what is the
    correct crankarm length based on lots different inputs - your size, style of
    riding, etc.

    Then I realized that the "experts" can't even agree what is the right size.
    Also, I noted this fact:

    The difference between 172.5 and 165 is 7.5 mm - or about 4%. I wondered
    whether I could even feel a 4% difference in crankarm length in a blinded
    test. I decided that for me, a few percentage points difference in crankarm
    length could not possibly be worth hundreds of dollars for a new crankset.

    Just my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

    BobT

  8. caaron said:

    So I was wondering if changing over to the 165mm cranks
    would make enough of a difference in comfort and cadence to make it
    worthwhile to do the change and what downside there might be, if any...

    You have to try them and see; there are lots of personal history
    stories inre crank length-- short folks happy on 175's, tall ones happy
    on 165's, and so on. I went to 165's for "everything" because I was
    living near a track and wanted to use the same length all the time
    ("every little bit helps"😉. Surprisingly, my knees stopped having a
    certain soreness that occurred regularly after hard rides when I used
    172.5's. Not an expected result, and FWIW the knees, which have been
    iffy for a good long time, have been doing better with 165's for about
    five years now. "Works for me".

    Park Tool has a "help" section inre bike maintainance. You'll note that
    cranks have to be torqued pretty substantially. Sears has inexpensive
    torque wrenches, I've seen your crank in 165 length go v. reasonably
    priced on ebay, etc etc.; likely nothing you can't do yourself. And
    then sell the ones you don't want <g>.

    IMHO, don't let concerns about cadence take away from your riding
    enjoyment. Work with it if you want, "spin-ups", telephone pole spins,
    etc., but NBD except to make it easier to cope with speed variations in
    racing or fast group rides. --D-y

  9. Quoted message said:

    I ride a 2001 Trek 5200 that is 54cm. I'm 163# and just short of 5'9" tall
    and have a long torso and short legs. My inseam is 30" and the distance
    from the top of my femur to the floor is 89cm. Based on Peter White's
    18.5% calculation guideline, 165mm cranks would be just right. Similar
    calculations from Ergobike (edward ZImmermann's bicycle sizing site) also
    come out at 165mm.

    Previously I had a 58cm Trek 5200, which I found too big to ride
    comfortably, so I got the 54cm Trek a few years ago and it seems to be a
    better fit. At age 60 I find I need the handlebars higher for comfort and
    I'm a recreational rider, not a racer, so my rides average about 15mph.
    I've always had trouble spinning fast, and although I can get up into the
    high 90's I find my average cadence is in the low to mid-eighties on most
    of my road rides. So I was wondering if changing over to the 165mm cranks
    would make enough of a difference in comfort and cadence to make it
    worthwhile to do the change and what downside there might be, if any...

    Thanks for the replies

    Chuck

    What are you using for saddle height (measured from center of crank to top
    of saddle)? Traditional wisdom would be around 66cm if I'm figuring
    correctly, which, on a 54cm Trek, would place the top of the saddle 13-14cm
    above the top tube (or 12cm above the seat collar, which extends above the
    top tube a bit and represents the measuring point for frame size on a 5200).

    Those all sound like pretty normal measurements (if they're reasonably close
    to what's on your bike). If so, I find nothing there to indicate that
    there's any "need", based on leg length, for a shorter crank. You might wish
    to try one for the heck of it, but I'm not sure what symptoms need to be
    addressed, particularly in light of your stated RPMs which are *not* at the
    low end. Low-to-mid-80s are perfectly acceptable for most people; not
    everyone does well spinning like Lance.

    I'm also somewhat concerned by what sounds like a hit-and-miss approach to
    fit. How did you end up initially with a 58cm frame? When I mock that one
    up, it looks like the saddle would be almost sitting on top of the top tube.
    You're potentially over-compensating and swinging from one extreme to the
    other, when someplace in the middle might be just about right.

    But getting down to the effects of shorter cranks- generally, you'll be able
    to spin a bit more (because the crank is traveling through a smaller circle,
    so your feet aren't actually moving as far/fast per revolution), but you'll
    also be losing some leverage, which could be an issue climbing. In general
    there's a trend toward longer cranks these days, seemingly with little
    downside (we're not seeing more knee injuries today than back-in-the-day,
    even though there are more people serious mile now than back then).

    Good luck, and let us know how the experiment turns out-

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  10. I doubt that it would make much difference to you. I have three bikes
    that I switch between regularly. The tandem has 165 mm cranks, the
    folding travel bike has 170 mm, and my usual road bike has 175 mm. If
    I pay attention it seems to me that I spin a bit faster with the 165s,
    but the difference is minimal and I can't say I notice any clear
    benefit of one length vs. the others.
    If you had any specific knee problems with the longer cranks then I
    could see the rationale for switching to shorter ones. But I wouldn't
    bother if you don't have any particular issues that you can attribute
    to the longer cranks.

  11. caaron said:

    I've been riding my Trek 5200 with 172.5 Ultegra cranks. Recently I was
    getting refitted to the bike to help with numbness in my hands and we ended
    up moving the seat position and also raising the handlebars. After we did
    that it was suggested that I should really be riding on 165mm cranks because
    I have short legs. I'm seeking opinions re:

    Will there be a noticeable difference in performance with shorter cranks?

    Probably not.

    Quoted message said:

    How hard is it to change out Ultegra cranks

    Not very.

    --do I need special tools?

    Yes

    Quoted message said:


    Do I change the cranks themselves or do I also have to change the gears (it
    is a triple) with the cranks as a set?

    Yes.

  12. Well, my seat is higher than that--74cm above the bottom bracket to the top
    of the seat and 23cm above the top tube. I had it lower but it felt
    cramped and when I raised it to this height I got better spinning and more
    power.

    Chuck

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I ride a 2001 Trek 5200 that is 54cm. I'm 163# and just short of 5'9"
    tall and have a long torso and short legs. My inseam is 30" and the
    distance from the top of my femur to the floor is 89cm. Based on Peter
    White's 18.5% calculation guideline, 165mm cranks would be just right.
    Similar calculations from Ergobike (edward ZImmermann's bicycle sizing
    site) also come out at 165mm.

    Previously I had a 58cm Trek 5200, which I found too big to ride
    comfortably, so I got the 54cm Trek a few years ago and it seems to be a
    better fit. At age 60 I find I need the handlebars higher for comfort
    and I'm a recreational rider, not a racer, so my rides average about
    15mph. I've always had trouble spinning fast, and although I can get up
    into the high 90's I find my average cadence is in the low to
    mid-eighties on most of my road rides. So I was wondering if changing
    over to the 165mm cranks would make enough of a difference in comfort and
    cadence to make it worthwhile to do the change and what downside there
    might be, if any...

    Thanks for the replies

    Chuck

    What are you using for saddle height (measured from center of crank to top
    of saddle)? Traditional wisdom would be around 66cm if I'm figuring
    correctly, which, on a 54cm Trek, would place the top of the saddle
    13-14cm above the top tube (or 12cm above the seat collar, which extends
    above the top tube a bit and represents the measuring point for frame size
    on a 5200).

    Those all sound like pretty normal measurements (if they're reasonably
    close to what's on your bike). If so, I find nothing there to indicate
    that there's any "need", based on leg length, for a shorter crank. You
    might wish to try one for the heck of it, but I'm not sure what symptoms
    need to be addressed, particularly in light of your stated RPMs which are
    *not* at the low end. Low-to-mid-80s are perfectly acceptable for most
    people; not everyone does well spinning like Lance.

    I'm also somewhat concerned by what sounds like a hit-and-miss approach to
    fit. How did you end up initially with a 58cm frame? When I mock that one
    up, it looks like the saddle would be almost sitting on top of the top
    tube. You're potentially over-compensating and swinging from one extreme
    to the other, when someplace in the middle might be just about right.

    But getting down to the effects of shorter cranks- generally, you'll be
    able to spin a bit more (because the crank is traveling through a smaller
    circle, so your feet aren't actually moving as far/fast per revolution),
    but you'll also be losing some leverage, which could be an issue climbing.
    In general there's a trend toward longer cranks these days, seemingly with
    little downside (we're not seeing more knee injuries today than
    back-in-the-day, even though there are more people serious mile now than
    back then).

    Good luck, and let us know how the experiment turns out-

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  13. 165 may be right for you if you have shorter than average legs. i ride
    a 54" frame and 170 cranks. i can feel the difference between 175 and
    170. i haven't tried any other size. and i definitely prefer the 170.

  14. Quoted message said:

    Well, my seat is higher than that--74cm above the bottom bracket to the
    top of the seat and 23cm above the top tube. I had it lower but it felt
    cramped and when I raised it to this height I got better spinning and more
    power.

    Chuck

    Chuck: Have you had a fitting done by somebody who does more than have you
    stand over the top tube? By that I mean measurements (arm, torso, inseam,
    shoulders etc), turn that into a mock fit and then observe the results?
    Self-fit doesn't always work too well; measurements can be off, and there's
    nobody to observe the results and notice things like rocking hips, toes-down
    pedaling, arched (curved) back etc.

    A really good fitting person isn't useful just for high-speed
    performance-oriented riding. Indeed, if you get someone who starts talking
    about getting you into a lower position for "efficiency", you've got the
    wrong person.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "caaron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, my seat is higher than that--74cm above the bottom bracket to the
    top of the seat and 23cm above the top tube. I had it lower but it felt
    cramped and when I raised it to this height I got better spinning and more
    power.

    Chuck

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I ride a 2001 Trek 5200 that is 54cm. I'm 163# and just short of 5'9"
    tall and have a long torso and short legs. My inseam is 30" and the
    distance from the top of my femur to the floor is 89cm. Based on Peter
    White's 18.5% calculation guideline, 165mm cranks would be just right.
    Similar calculations from Ergobike (edward ZImmermann's bicycle sizing
    site) also come out at 165mm.

    Previously I had a 58cm Trek 5200, which I found too big to ride
    comfortably, so I got the 54cm Trek a few years ago and it seems to be a
    better fit. At age 60 I find I need the handlebars higher for comfort
    and I'm a recreational rider, not a racer, so my rides average about
    15mph. I've always had trouble spinning fast, and although I can get up
    into the high 90's I find my average cadence is in the low to
    mid-eighties on most of my road rides. So I was wondering if changing
    over to the 165mm cranks would make enough of a difference in comfort
    and cadence to make it worthwhile to do the change and what downside
    there might be, if any...

    Thanks for the replies

    Chuck

    What are you using for saddle height (measured from center of crank to
    top of saddle)? Traditional wisdom would be around 66cm if I'm figuring
    correctly, which, on a 54cm Trek, would place the top of the saddle
    13-14cm above the top tube (or 12cm above the seat collar, which extends
    above the top tube a bit and represents the measuring point for frame
    size on a 5200).

    Those all sound like pretty normal measurements (if they're reasonably
    close to what's on your bike). If so, I find nothing there to indicate
    that there's any "need", based on leg length, for a shorter crank. You
    might wish to try one for the heck of it, but I'm not sure what symptoms
    need to be addressed, particularly in light of your stated RPMs which are
    *not* at the low end. Low-to-mid-80s are perfectly acceptable for most
    people; not everyone does well spinning like Lance.

    I'm also somewhat concerned by what sounds like a hit-and-miss approach
    to fit. How did you end up initially with a 58cm frame? When I mock that
    one up, it looks like the saddle would be almost sitting on top of the
    top tube. You're potentially over-compensating and swinging from one
    extreme to the other, when someplace in the middle might be just about
    right.

    But getting down to the effects of shorter cranks- generally, you'll be
    able to spin a bit more (because the crank is traveling through a smaller
    circle, so your feet aren't actually moving as far/fast per revolution),
    but you'll also be losing some leverage, which could be an issue
    climbing. In general there's a trend toward longer cranks these days,
    seemingly with little downside (we're not seeing more knee injuries today
    than back-in-the-day, even though there are more people serious mile now
    than back then).

    Good luck, and let us know how the experiment turns out-

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  15. Yes, I actually was fitted by a good, independent bike shop and it was there
    that we moved the seat back and up, so that was definitely an improvement.
    They asked me about my riding style and physical problems (back, neck &
    shoulder pain) and made adjustments to the bike. Then I rode it on the bike
    stand while they observed and they fine tuned from there. The conclusion
    was that the adjustments to this bike were a good compromise but that I'd
    never really find a bike that fit my body size ideally without having a
    custom frame made. They did pick up my toes-down pedaling style but I think
    that's improved since we moved the seat back. The problem I've had with fit
    is that every shop where I've asked advice has a different idea as to what
    proper fit really is. Some don't consider the comfort needs of the older
    rider and others (many of whom seem like they really do understand fit) tend
    to depend more on their visual evaluation of me on the bike than the "fit
    kit" or other fitting aids. Afterwards I find myself taking their advice,
    but still fine-tuning the fit based on my own comfort and ride experiences.
    Prior to that I had my wife take accurate measurements and tried the formula
    route with various on-line fitting guides. The problem there is that again,
    many are designed for optimum racing fit for a 24 year old rider, which I'm
    not. And there were also variations for frame types, seat back angles, etc.
    Even then, the results came out anywhere between a 54 and 58cm bike, which
    is a big difference. But when I looked back on my calculations last night,
    most of them agreed that I should be using 165mm cranks...

    My question about the crank lengths really came from a recent visit to my
    Orthopedic doctor, who is a cycler himself. In fact, he shared with me that
    about 20 some years ago he bought a frame from Eddie Merckx and welded it
    himself and still has the bike he built from it today. Anyway I had been
    reading Peter White's bike fitting article (which makes good sense) and
    mentioned the 18.5% crank length formula to my Dr, and he was kind enough to
    measure my leg length while I was there. So that is why I asked the
    question about crank length, since the guidelines call for 165mm and I'm
    riding on 172.5mm. I don't mind spending the money for a new crankset, but
    was curious as to how much the 7.5mm difference might make and how difficult
    it would be to make the change myself. Sounds like an easy mechanical
    change and after reading many of the replies here, I'm inclined to spend the
    money to buy a shorter crank set.

    Chuck

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Well, my seat is higher than that--74cm above the bottom bracket to the
    top of the seat and 23cm above the top tube. I had it lower but it felt
    cramped and when I raised it to this height I got better spinning and
    more power.

    Chuck

    Chuck: Have you had a fitting done by somebody who does more than have you
    stand over the top tube? By that I mean measurements (arm, torso, inseam,
    shoulders etc), turn that into a mock fit and then observe the results?
    Self-fit doesn't always work too well; measurements can be off, and
    there's nobody to observe the results and notice things like rocking hips,
    toes-down pedaling, arched (curved) back etc.

    A really good fitting person isn't useful just for high-speed
    performance-oriented riding. Indeed, if you get someone who starts talking
    about getting you into a lower position for "efficiency", you've got the
    wrong person.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "caaron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, my seat is higher than that--74cm above the bottom bracket to the
    top of the seat and 23cm above the top tube. I had it lower but it felt
    cramped and when I raised it to this height I got better spinning and
    more power.

    Chuck

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    >I ride a 2001 Trek 5200 that is 54cm. I'm 163# and just short of 5'9"
    >tall and have a long torso and short legs. My inseam is 30" and the
    >distance from the top of my femur to the floor is 89cm. Based on
    >Peter White's 18.5% calculation guideline, 165mm cranks would be just
    >right. Similar calculations from Ergobike (edward ZImmermann's bicycle
    >sizing site) also come out at 165mm.
    >
    > Previously I had a 58cm Trek 5200, which I found too big to ride
    > comfortably, so I got the 54cm Trek a few years ago and it seems to be
    > a better fit. At age 60 I find I need the handlebars higher for
    > comfort and I'm a recreational rider, not a racer, so my rides average
    > about 15mph. I've always had trouble spinning fast, and although I can
    > get up into the high 90's I find my average cadence is in the low to
    > mid-eighties on most of my road rides. So I was wondering if changing
    > over to the 165mm cranks would make enough of a difference in comfort
    > and cadence to make it worthwhile to do the change and what downside
    > there might be, if any...
    >
    > Thanks for the replies
    >
    > Chuck

    What are you using for saddle height (measured from center of crank to
    top of saddle)? Traditional wisdom would be around 66cm if I'm figuring
    correctly, which, on a 54cm Trek, would place the top of the saddle
    13-14cm above the top tube (or 12cm above the seat collar, which extends
    above the top tube a bit and represents the measuring point for frame
    size on a 5200).

    Those all sound like pretty normal measurements (if they're reasonably
    close to what's on your bike). If so, I find nothing there to indicate
    that there's any "need", based on leg length, for a shorter crank. You
    might wish to try one for the heck of it, but I'm not sure what symptoms
    need to be addressed, particularly in light of your stated RPMs which
    are *not* at the low end. Low-to-mid-80s are perfectly acceptable for
    most people; not everyone does well spinning like Lance.

    I'm also somewhat concerned by what sounds like a hit-and-miss approach
    to fit. How did you end up initially with a 58cm frame? When I mock that
    one up, it looks like the saddle would be almost sitting on top of the
    top tube. You're potentially over-compensating and swinging from one
    extreme to the other, when someplace in the middle might be just about
    right.

    But getting down to the effects of shorter cranks- generally, you'll be
    able to spin a bit more (because the crank is traveling through a
    smaller circle, so your feet aren't actually moving as far/fast per
    revolution), but you'll also be losing some leverage, which could be an
    issue climbing. In general there's a trend toward longer cranks these
    days, seemingly with little downside (we're not seeing more knee
    injuries today than back-in-the-day, even though there are more people
    serious mile now than back then).

    Good luck, and let us know how the experiment turns out-

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  16. Hi... my advice?... get a set of 170 cranks... 165 are too short.... u'll
    get more power and more consistency using 170. !72.5 is way too long for u
    specially if u r kind'a short person u know... thats the reason because u
    have pain on your knees (not new), ALthoug i can use 172.5 i might suffer
    some pain in my knees because of that little difference.

    Probably u'll feel some performance difference with 165, why? because the
    torque is a lot less than with a 172.5 especially in higher gears (hope ur
    not one of those riders). If i was u i would get a set of 170 set of
    cranks... 165 are too short even for u.(if u are using the same bike ull
    feel the difference, maybe with another frame u wont, it depends not all
    the bikes are the same set ups)

    As experience, books always say something. formulas for this and this and
    people from the LBS giving u advice about what is ok and what is not ok.
    (some LBS people havent riden even in a tricycle but they had read a lot).
    The problem is that rules arent always the same, rules and formulas depends
    of many factor and usually they take only an average person.

    Fausto coppy style was awefull but the guy was god damm fast... good
    example right?

    AN extreme case i remember, over here in xxxx a triatlhete woman. She had
    the best bike in the market, the guys from the store were trying t get the
    best position for her (she wanted the same) blah blah... I saw her last
    custom made bicycle... was something hmmm... weird... she was pettite too..
    well that day this woman went there to try that new frame (the 4th one), I
    saw her on hte parking lot riding and I notice that no matter what frame
    they built for her, her style will continue being crappy. I have no idea if
    she is still trying to get a position as Greg Lemond but I bet that the
    store people didnt say that the problem was her and her shortness to this
    poor woman, there was nothing else to do. besides taking her money... or
    maybe teach her how to really ride a bike and improve her style (no store
    will teach u that)

    As a general rule, usually short people have problems with their position
    over the bike specially if the style and tecnnique is bad. Dunno if this is
    your case... but usually thats what happens.

    I saw in nashbar i think a set of cranks quite cheap and they look cool
    too...

    Cya...

    PS: numbness in my hands <--- the seat is pointing to the ground, set the
    seat level with the ground thats all u have to do, btw maybe you ride
    putting all your weight over the front of the bike, and if thats the
    case... i thnk we found the source of all your problems.

    Peter Cole <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    caaron said:

    I've been riding my Trek 5200 with 172.5 Ultegra cranks. Recently I
    was getting refitted to the bike to help with numbness in my hands
    and we ended up moving the seat position and also raising the
    handlebars. After we did that it was suggested that I should really
    be riding on 165mm cranks because I have short legs. I'm seeking
    opinions re:

    Will there be a noticeable difference in performance with shorter
    cranks?

    Probably not.

    Quoted message said:

    How hard is it to change out Ultegra cranks

    Not very.

    --do I need special tools?

    Yes

    Quoted message said:


    Do I change the cranks themselves or do I also have to change the
    gears (it is a triple) with the cranks as a set?

    Yes.

  17. noname said:

    Hi... my advice?... get a set of 170 cranks... 165 are too short.... u'll
    get more power and more consistency using 170. !72.5 is way too long for u
    specially if u r kind'a short person u know... thats the reason because u
    have pain on your knees (not new), ALthoug i can use 172.5 i might suffer
    some pain in my knees because of that little difference.


    "172.5 is way too long for u", so, " get a set of 170 cranks". Do
    you really think that 2.5mm is "way too long"? If the OP is having
    knee pain, it is more likely due to the cleat alignment, and/or saddle
    position[height, kops]. Here see what Sheldon has to say:
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/pain.html#knees

    Pain and cycling, in general: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/pain.html

    I have to believe that for all but a true professional bike racer,
    changing out cranks for 2.5mm is a waste of time and money. Sure, if
    you are replacing your wornout crankset, or building a new bike, then
    go to the 170, but don't do it just to change size.

    Quoted message said:


    Probably u'll feel some performance difference with 165, why? because the
    torque is a lot less than with a 172.5 especially in higher gears (hope ur
    not one of those riders). If i was u i would get a set of 170 set of
    cranks... 165 are too short even for u.(if u are using the same bike ull
    feel the difference, maybe with another frame u wont, it depends not all
    the bikes are the same set ups)

    As experience, books always say something. formulas for this and this and
    people from the LBS giving u advice about what is ok and what is not ok.
    (some LBS people havent riden even in a tricycle but they had read a lot).
    The problem is that rules arent always the same, rules and formulas depends
    of many factor and usually they take only an average person.

    Fausto coppy style was awefull but the guy was god damm fast... good
    example right?

    AN extreme case i remember, over here in xxxx a triatlhete woman. She had
    the best bike in the market, the guys from the store were trying t get the
    best position for her (she wanted the same) blah blah... I saw her last
    custom made bicycle... was something hmmm... weird... she was pettite too..
    well that day this woman went there to try that new frame (the 4th one), I
    saw her on hte parking lot riding and I notice that no matter what frame
    they built for her, her style will continue being crappy. I have no idea if
    she is still trying to get a position as Greg Lemond but I bet that the
    store people didnt say that the problem was her and her shortness to this
    poor woman, there was nothing else to do. besides taking her money... or
    maybe teach her how to really ride a bike and improve her style (no store
    will teach u that)

    So, you are saying, because she is short, they can't build a bike to
    fit her? That is the whole idea of going custom, to be able to cut the
    tubes to nonstandard sizes. If they can't size the bike properly, it
    is either their incompetence or her requesting/demanding incorrect
    lengths.

    Quoted message said:


    As a general rule, usually short people have problems with their position
    over the bike specially if the style and tecnnique is bad. Dunno if this is
    your case... but usually thats what happens.


    As a general rule, really tall people have problems with their
    position over the bike especially if the style and technique is bad.
    This statement is as absurd as yours. If your style and technique is
    bad, your height isn't the issue.

    Quoted message said:

    I saw in nashbar i think a set of cranks quite cheap and they look cool
    too...

    Cya...

    PS: numbness in my hands <--- the seat is pointing to the ground, set the
    seat level with the ground thats all u have to do, btw maybe you ride
    putting all your weight over the front of the bike, and if thats the
    case... i thnk we found the source of all your problems.


    There are way too many people giving advice, as absolutes. If I have
    learned nothing else on these newsgroups, it is that when it comes to
    bicyle fit and sizing, there are few absolutes.

    Life is Good!
    Jeff

  18. Thanks for all of the responses to my question. I actually did buy and
    install the Ultegra 165's and the results were dramatic--much easier riding
    with less effort, and an increase in cadence by close to 10rpm along with an
    average speed increase of about .7mph (seven tenths).

    My bike finally feels comfortable to ride--hard to believe that such a
    seemingly minor change of 7.5mm could make such a dramatic difference in
    performance. And the cranks were ridiculously easy to install, so it is a
    trivial mechanical procedure.

    Thanks again.

    Chuck

    "caaron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've been riding my Trek 5200 with 172.5 Ultegra cranks. Recently I was
    getting refitted to the bike to help with numbness in my hands and we
    ended up moving the seat position and also raising the handlebars. After
    we did that it was suggested that I should really be riding on 165mm
    cranks because I have short legs. I'm seeking opinions re:

    Will there be a noticeable difference in performance with shorter cranks?

    How hard is it to change out Ultegra cranks--do I need special tools?

    Do I change the cranks themselves or do I also have to change the gears
    (it is a triple) with the cranks as a set?

    Thanks in advance...

    Chuck

  19. caaron said:

    Thanks for all of the responses to my question. I actually did buy and
    install the Ultegra 165's and the results were dramatic--much easier riding
    with less effort, and an increase in cadence by close to 10rpm along with an
    average speed increase of about .7mph (seven tenths).

    My bike finally feels comfortable to ride--hard to believe that such a
    seemingly minor change of 7.5mm could make such a dramatic difference in
    performance. And the cranks were ridiculously easy to install, so it is a
    trivial mechanical procedure.

    Did you use a torque wrench?

    --
    Ted Bennett

  20. No, do I need to? If so, do you know the correct torque?

    Chuck

    "Ted Bennett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    caaron said:

    Thanks for all of the responses to my question. I actually did buy and
    install the Ultegra 165's and the results were dramatic--much easier
    riding
    with less effort, and an increase in cadence by close to 10rpm along with
    an
    average speed increase of about .7mph (seven tenths).

    My bike finally feels comfortable to ride--hard to believe that such a
    seemingly minor change of 7.5mm could make such a dramatic difference in
    performance. And the cranks were ridiculously easy to install, so it is
    a
    trivial mechanical procedure.

    Did you use a torque wrench?

    --
    Ted Bennett

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.