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Coker Frame Help

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rec.sport.unicycling
Published
19 February 2005
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20 February 2005
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leeman180
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  1. I am going to be making a frame for my coker soon, with the help of a
    good welder. I came up with a design of my own frame. Can those that
    have the experience of building frames before tell me what they think?

    -Lee

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  2. I will be using 4130 chromoly pipes, and I will be getting some bearing
    holders to weld onto the bottom of the forks. To weld them on I plan on
    flattening the end of the two pipes, and then welding them on.

    http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=635

    Is it possible to weld these bearing holders to 4130 chromoly ? I am
    concerned that I wont be able to if they are different metals.

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  3. Yes, you will be able to weld the steel bearing holders to chromoly
    tubing. You do not necessarily need to angle the tops of the legs where
    they attach to the seat tube. Here's a thread discussing a Coker frame
    that I built. Hope it helps:

    http://tinyurl.com/5zlho

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  4. now thats my kinda protoype drawing

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  5. brockfisher05 said:

    *now thats my kinda protoype drawing *

    lol wtf?

    That looks like a nice plane for a frame. How much does it cost to make?

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  6. what ? I cant draw any better I am probably worse

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  7. I just thought it was funny what you said.

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  8. oh hahahaha

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  9. That's a good start for your drawings, but if you give that to the
    welder he will laugh at you. I went to the machine shop I'm working at
    with similar plans. They weren't to scale, had nearly NO dimensions
    marked, and didn't really give much of an idea of what was going on. I
    started actual machining of my frame 2-3 weeks late because I had to
    continue modifying the drawings until the guy who ran the shop was
    satisfied. It payed off in the end.

    A quick list of things you need to do to the plans before you go to the
    welder:

    1. Decide on the diameter if your seattube. 22.2mm will work, but
    basically whatever size you can get should work. The Thomson seatpost
    website has the full list of sizes, so you can just compare that list to
    a tubing source list. 1"=25.4mm. It's actually 25.399..., but that level
    of precision is unneccessary. Tubin is sold by the OD (outside diameter)
    and wall thickness. For example, 1.25" tubing with .090" wall thickness.
    The way to calculate ID, which is the important dimension on a seattube,
    you do 1.25"-2(0.090). That equals 1.07"ID, which you then multiply by
    25.4mm. 1.07x25.4=27.178mm. This is *just* under 27.2. Sadly this won't
    work for you, so you should find something else. Remember OD-2xWT(wall
    thickness)=ID. Then muntiply by 25.4 to get the ID in mm.

    2. Decide on the diameter and wall thickness of the tubing in the crown.
    If you are using chromoly, don't go over 1" diameter, and you don't need
    very thick walls.

    3. Consider whether or not you want a reinforcing plate under the
    tubing, a-la KH frames. This really strengthens the crown, and is worth
    consideration. 1/16" (0.0625"😉 chromoly plate would be plenty.

    4. Measure the angle of the crown pieces relative to the seattube, so
    that instead of being a 20 degree angle it will be a 110 degree or 70
    degree angle. Mark the axis you are measuring that angle from.

    5. Decide on how wide you want the crown to be. You will need at least
    1/8" of clearance on each side, and 1/4"-3/8" would be far better. But
    on the other end of things, a crown wider than about 4.5-5" will be in
    the way (I don't know about cokers, but when riding muni and trials wide
    crowns [censored] me off). The clearance, crown width, and tubing OD arte all
    related, and should be considered with the others in mind.

    6. Give the length of each of the branching crown pieces, and define the
    angle you want them to interface with the fork leg.

    7. Define the length of the fork leg. This should be at least 18"
    (36"/2), but 19-20" would be better. I would weld up the crown, cut the
    angles for the interface on the crown, and then taper the legs with an
    estimated length. Then weld on the bearing holders. After welding on the
    bearing holders, put the legs on the frame and see how the crown fits on
    top of it all and decide if you would like to shorten the legs any.

    8. Define how much taper there will be over the course of the leg. Does
    it taper from 1" round to .5" wide at the bottom? You will need to know
    this, and should know if the shop you'll be at has a press before you
    buy anything. It isn't easy to taper steel tubing without a good
    hydraulic press.

    9. Decids how long you want the seattube to be. Cut it 1-2" longer than
    what you expect to need, and then cut it if it's too long. You can't add
    tubing, you can always remove it.

    The rest of the design looks good. Good luck.

    --
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  10. I'm not an engineer, but I would say 3/4" ovalized tubing to 3/8" (wide
    laterally, thus makig the tubing longer) would be enough. Try and look
    at bike tubing and see how thick the walls are for an idea of the
    thickness you need. 090" is way too thick.

    The flat crown with a small reinforcing plate would be lower profile,
    easier to weld, and strong enough. 1/8" chromoly should be good, and
    just make it as wide as the tubing. The reinforcing plate can be as thin
    at it's thinnest point (vertically) as 1/2 or 1/4". I would go with 1/2"
    and the flat plate crown, and have the plate get wider near the legs, to
    1.5 or 2".

    --
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  11. The crown design is very similar to the 'DM Ringmaster Advanced'
    (http://www.unicycle.co.uk/advanced%20ringmaster.htm) and the 'DM ATU'
    (http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=99). That design works
    very well for DM's high end unicycles. DM's unicycles using that design
    are very solid.

    The downside is that design requires more difficult welding and
    difficult cuts and shapes (especially around the seat tube). It would
    be easier to make a unicycle frame similar to the '2004 KH frame'
    (http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=662), 'KH Pro frame'
    (http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=467), or the 'GB4
    frame' (http://www.gb4mfg.com/randd.html). That style of frame would be
    easier to weld and simpler to cut the tubes for and simpler to jig up to
    keep everything aligned while welding. Simpler means cheaper when it
    comes to welding and fabrication.

    Using the KH/GB4 design it is also easier to use ovalized tubes so that
    the frame is narrower. If you use round tubes in your design the frame
    is going to be wider and that can cause the frame to rub the inside of
    your legs while pedaling. That can/will get very annoying. It's best
    to keep the frame narrow as possible to avoid that potential problem.
    The leg rubbing issue will be more of a problem with shorter riders on a
    Coker than taller riders.

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  12. Hows this? And where can I get ovalized tubing?

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  13. (Klaas Bil) said:

    1" = 25.4 mm exactly. Not originally so but by way of a later law. See
    e.g. <http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/63332.html>.

    That's part of the picture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch points
    out that different parts of the world had different standards for the
    term "inch". In 1958, US and Britain agreed on the modern definition
    (25.4mm).

    Quoted message said:

    Similar simplifications have been applied to other units. When I went
    to school, a litre was not exactly the same as a cubic decimetre.
    They just happened to be ALMOST the same but where defined quite
    differently. They too have been equated since.

    You are older than I am! The liter has been defined as 1 cubic
    decimeter since 1964. This is no coincidence, though, because the
    liter as originally conceived in 1793 was the same. In 1901, the unit
    was redefined as the volume of one kg water (1.000028L, under
    specified conditions), a bad idea that was rectified in 1964.

    Ken

  14. leeman180 said:

    *
    I have a tubing list, I am ordering from Aircraft Spruce, an airplane
    catalog with millions of different parts, for airplane building. And I
    am going to order a tube with a little more Inner Diameter than 1", so
    the seat post can have a little slop. Otherwise, I would not be able
    to get the seatpost in.
    *

    Lee,

    I have used 1" OD 4130 tubing for the neck. If the wall thickness is
    0.058 inch the the ID comes out as 22.45mm, even though this is
    nominally 0.25mm larger than the 22.2mm seat post you will be amazed how
    much the neck will need to be crushed to minimise slipping, this can be
    resolved by a double clamp.

    Alternatively if you go up a wall thickness (0.065inch) the ID = 22.1mm
    & you will *never* get the seat post to slide down. I can confirm this
    because my supplier sent me the wrong wall thickness which caused to
    panic my maths had been wrong...

    The first uni I built (29er) was identical to your first design, it was
    only afterwards that I compared it to DM's design. I braze welded with
    gas & think this design would be better if TIG welded.

    For my next uni I made a Nimbus/Onza style frame which was a lot easier
    to fabricate & weld cleanly. Currently I am trying to decide what design
    to use for a replacement Coker frame.

    Keith

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