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no, the UCI just had it in for Rhis Biver Rominger and the Swiss guys. For some reason.

Bro Deal said:

Here is a guess: Back in the day when the doping issue was starting to be taken more seriously, teams cultivated sources within the testing framework, giving money for their help. This eventually changed from teams seeking out sources to pay to sources seeking teams to pay to sources not being happy with teams that did not pay. Eventually you have a situation of institutionalized corruption.

There is a little problem though. In order to shake down a team, you need someone to deal with. For teams with internal doping programs this is not a problem. For teams where the management has left the riders to fend for themselves there is no one to deal with.

Phonak and Astana were both run by the same outfit, we can assume that they ran the two teams the same way. So even though the Kazakhs have the money to pay, there was no one in the team management to pass it along to the UCI.

Crankyfeet said:

The upside for him in keeping his lie, is that by continuing it, he still retains a few thousand people who "believe" in him. And within those few thousand people, are his closest friends and family. To admit the lie now, would crush those people and his relationship with them.

Just in a pathetic situation, lying to retain a few supporters, but treated with contempt by everyone else.

That is so similar to what FL is doing. Maybe the only thing left for Hamilton to do is to write a book on why he is innocent.

thunder said:

it is in the UCI's interest to catch some, as scapegoats for all that get a tip off and free pass.

Leukemans and Lotz pay for Boonen's pass.

etc etc

Well its easy to understand why the UCI would view Boonen and Contador as worthy and protected pin-up boys for cycling, while seeing Rasmussen and a few expendable domestiques as scapegoats.

So Floyd must have really [censored] them off.

I still wonder though how much control they have over massaging the lab results. I could see them being able to warn certain parties of impending random tests, but they can't warn them of when they're going to win.

I remember seeing a post earlier (maybe by Lim?) on how exactly FL [censored] UCI.

TheDarkLord said:

I remember seeing a post earlier (maybe by Lim?) on how exactly FL [censored] UCI.

Well there's the one he states in his book of how he asked for the monies to be paid to him out of the UCI team payment insurance fund when he was owed money early in his career.

And he's generally not the sort of guy to tactfully sidestep embarrassing truths about the UCI. He publicly humiliated them about his situation in the media AFAIK to the point where the UCI threatened him with something.

Well, that to me seems to be a good enough reason for him to become a scapegoat to be slaughtered as far as the UCI is concerned. And really, that would in part explain his great outrage too. I mean, if he knows that everyone around him is doping, but he is the only one exposed, something gotta give, right? Unless he doesn't know about the cover up schemes.

TheDarkLord said:

Well, that to me seems to be a good enough reason for him to become a scapegoat to be slaughtered as far as the UCI is concerned. And really, that would in part explain his great outrage too. I mean, if he knows that everyone around him is doping, but he is the only one exposed, something gotta give, right? Unless he doesn't know about the cover up schemes.

If I comprehend it correct, laboratori testing INDEPENDENT of UCI. In this sens, UCI manipolazion limited. I don’t think UCI can do a lot excluding someone within struttura, intenzonal or non, deciding to leak (embarrass) or non leak (cover up) sospicious test risultati. No need for 100% "positive". UCI can not cook up “positives” non having laboratorio papers if potenzial law contestation it facing .

Per esempl , if they want sack Landis and protect Boonen they need both produce sospicious risultati before UCI acting anything. The risultati would be known to huge many partitis:
1. laboratorio
2. national body,
3. WADA,
4. Event proprietario .
5. sport ministry possesing laboratorio
6. national olympic comittee.

Leaking is much more easy than covering up.

Per esempl , UCI wanted denigrated Vinokourov and Astana and protected Discovery. Can many imagine a “ positive” on Discovery remain segret? Discovery have too much enemies.

The most practic method UCI damaging Astana is fuocos UCI resources on nonannounced and “health ” esaminanation. Testing til find “something“. This is very possible. If UCI was/is doing this intenzional, bici sport will never recuperate.

I think a lot of this is backstabbing amongst teams. The Festina scandal was broken because an opposing DS notified the police. I wouldn't be surprised if OP was broken in the same manner. If it was, you have to think who gained the most by OP? Well, I would say Phonak (Landis) since Ullrich and Basso were removed from that tour giving him a real shot at the win. Other parties that benefited were Disco (no one involved) and some of the French teams. Maybe Landis' positive test was payback for the prior removal of Ullrich and Basso? Who knows...but I will say this. To get caught using testosterone in the final days of the tour is idiotic....UNLESS the IRMS test is run. Maybe someone convinced (tipped) the UCI to ensure that test was run or then again, maybe Landis is just an idiot or drunk the night prior and smeared test cream all over his body.

fscyclist said:

. To get caught using testosterone in the final days of the tour is idiotic....UNLESS the IRMS test is run. Maybe someone convinced (tipped) the UCI to ensure that test was run or then again, maybe Landis is just an idiot or drunk the night prior and smeared test cream all over his body.

To bump up.
Landis was caught for stage 17!

poulidor said:

To bump up.
Landis was caught for stage 17!

Yes he was...I consider that the 'final days' of the tour, especially since it was the last mtn stage.

The point is we know he was using the entire tour from the B samples USADA tested. So why did he get busted so late?

1. He was careless - probably the most likely but doesn't make for good conversation
2. Someone spiked his massage cream with test - slightly more conspiracy
3. Someone tipped off the UCI once they saw he was going to win and told them to ensure the IRMS test was run. I know his test:epitest ratio triggered this, but maybe the lab (or insider working in the lab) or UCI or whomever ensured this happened solely to trigger the IRMS test - good conspiracy theory
4. Jack Daniels really does have large doses of testosterone in which case I'm off to buy a bottle.

earth_dweller said:

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Condoms 'too big' for Indian men

Quoted post said:

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limerickman said:

The fact that some fans still choose to think that their favourite rider has not cheated doesn't suprise me.
Those fans are to pitied rather than scorned.

In Hamiltons case, his guilt has been established and is unequivocal.

What is intolerable is the consistent lies promulgated by Hamilton and his ilk to try to portray themselves as victims of a conspiracy.
The only conspiracy in this case was Hamiltons cheating - and he compounded that cheating by attempting to lie his way out of it.

to amplify lim's point, the november 2007 issue of outside magazine contains a reader's poll where 45% of the respondents chose l.a. as the "greatest Outside athlete of all time." 50% of those readers also chose "no" to answer the question "did lance dope?" (19% said "yes" while 31% picked [and i am embarrassed as a american by this] "who cares? he's an american hero". oh well, we did as a country elect an idiot president twice.

We've elected idiots as president more than twice...this one just happens to be really bad.

Cobblestones said:

😄

It would be fun to put everything together. But it has to have 9/11, Illuminati, Templar Knights, Nazis, the CIA, Mossad, Jews, JFK, Opus Dei, Lady Di, the East India Trading Company, fake moonlandings, cursed Aztec gold and Freemasons in there. Bonus points if you correctly predict the next high-level political assassination. And no, you're too late for B. Bhutto. Alternatively, correct prediction of the next positive doping test in pro cycling would suffice.

No reptilian shape-shifters?

stevebaby said:

No reptilian shape-shifters?

...you've seen them, too?...