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Frigo's Luggage said:

BTW, what type of egomaniac names himself the "Icy Hot Sprinta"?

a not so hot man with a small penis

ad9898 said:

I think Tyler is innocent.......just joking, no unfortunatley for Tyler his program just didn't work out..... I remember on La Mongie, he suffered like a dog and his tour fell apart after having a good run up to the TDF, same as Mayo in the same year and of course Vino in 2005. The drugs don't work guys.

They only stop working when you get caught. 😄

Nobody has ever been caught. Its just a massive WADA and UCI conspiracy to bring down the sport.

ad9898 said:

I think Tyler is innocent.......just joking, no unfortunatley for Tyler his program just didn't work out..... I remember on La Mongie, he suffered like a dog and his tour fell apart after having a good run up to the TDF, same as Mayo in the same year and of course Vino in 2005. The drugs don't work guys.

Lance, just do me one favor. If you are ever caught, please come up with a better excuse than an absorbed twin and Jack Daniels.

Frigo's Luggage said:

Lance, just do me one favor. If you are ever caught, please come up with a better excuse than an absorbed twin and Jack Daniels.

Jack Daniels isn't bad, I actually will have a few on New Years Eve...

But I won't get caught, I told Anne that I will be in Mexico.😄

cyclingheroes said:

Jack Daniels isn't bad, I actually will have a few on New Years Eve...

But I won't get caught, I told Anne that I will be in Mexico.😄

I think Steve signed up to this forum.

what an invitation.

The fact that some fans still choose to think that their favourite rider has not cheated doesn't suprise me.
Those fans are to pitied rather than scorned.

In Hamiltons case, his guilt has been established and is unequivocal.

What is intolerable is the consistent lies promulgated by Hamilton and his ilk to try to portray themselves as victims of a conspiracy.
The only conspiracy in this case was Hamiltons cheating - and he compounded that cheating by attempting to lie his way out of it.

limerickman said:

The fact that some fans still choose to think that their favourite rider has not cheated doesn't suprise me.
Those fans are to pitied rather than scorned.

In Hamiltons case, his guilt has been established and is unequivocal.

What is intolerable is the consistent lies promulgated by Hamilton and his ilk to try to portray themselves as victims of a conspiracy.
The only conspiracy in this case was Hamiltons cheating - and he compounded that cheating by attempting to lie his way out of it.

The upside for him in keeping his lie, is that by continuing it, he still retains a few thousand people who "believe" in him. And within those few thousand people, are his closest friends and family. To admit the lie now, would crush those people and his relationship with them.

Just in a pathetic situation, lying to retain a few supporters, but treated with contempt by everyone else.

Frigo's Luggage said:

Lance, just do me one favor. If you are ever caught, please come up with a better excuse than an absorbed twin and Jack Daniels.

I think Armstrong is a bit smarter than Landis. Hamilton farked up because he thought he could beat the rap.

Bro Deal said:

I think Armstrong is a bit smarter than Landis. Hamilton farked up because he thought he could beat the rap.

Seems there are smart dopers and dumb dopers. Smart dopers don't get caught of course. But of the dumb dopers who get caught, there are dumb and really dumb dopers. And the ones that are caught in the headlights and start frantically digging an escape tunnel only to find themselves digging deeper into a cavernous hole.

Crankyfeet said:

Seems there are smart dopers and dumb dopers. Smart dopers don't get caught of course. But of the dumb dopers who get caught, there are dumb and really dumb dopers. And the ones that are caught in the headlights and start frantically digging an escape tunnel only to find themselves digging deeper into a cavernous hole.

The lawyers like the really dumb dopers and fans that give them money.

Crankyfeet said:

Seems there are smart dopers and dumb dopers. Smart dopers don't get caught of course. But of the dumb dopers who get caught, there are dumb and really dumb dopers. And the ones that are caught in the headlights and start frantically digging an escape tunnel only to find themselves digging deeper into a cavernous hole.

Some are protected, some are not. Phonak wasn't, Astana wasn't.

cyclingheroes said:

Some are protected, some are not. Phonak wasn't, Astana wasn't.

Are you ever going to elaborate? Can't you creat another account and post info under a different name. 😉

Have you ever done that kind of thing anywhere, Bro?[img]cyclingforums.combiggrin.gifOpen ↗[/img]

Bro Deal said:

Are you ever going to elaborate? Can't you creat another account and post info under a different name. 😉

Its pretty obvious what he's getting at. Protection money...right? But what I can't understand is why Astana couldn't pay to be untouchable? Surely the oil boys in Astana have handled a few backhanders in their time?

Crankyfeet said:

Its pretty obvious what he's getting at. Protection money...right? But what I can't understand is why Astana couldn't pay to be untouchable? Surely the oil boys in Astana have handled a few backhanders in their time?

Ofcourse they could pay, they could take over the whole store....

Crankyfeet said:

Its pretty obvious what he's getting at. Protection money...right? But what I can't understand is why Astana couldn't pay to be untouchable? Surely the oil boys in Astana have handled a few backhanders in their time?

It doesn't necessarily have to be money, but it would not surprise me if it was. It could be as simple as friendships between people within the UCI and some teams. It could be that some national federations give their teams a heads up on random testing. It could be sort of a systemic thing where the whole testing system is leaky and people share info as a matter of professional courtesy; if you are unlucky enough to be out of the loop then you are screwed.

I have said before that I have not seen a smoking gun on this. There have been a number of coincidences over the years that make you wonder about things. Several sources have said that they were given advance warning on random testing, but that does not have to equal teams being favored at the expense of other teams.

It would be nice if CH would give a few hints about the actual mechanism of corruption.

That's right, Crank. I imagine that the majority of teams, including Astana, would have the means to pay if that is what is required to be 'protected'. So why is Heroes implying that specific teams are looked after whilst others are not? What does it require to be given a free pass?
If Heroes doesn't wish to associate himself with it directly, I wonder if he might consider PMing this info to a trusted confidante and filter it out tangentially.

Gregers said:

That's right, Crank. I imagine that the majority of teams, including Astana, would have the means to pay if that is what is required to be 'protected'. So why is Heroes implying that specific teams are looked after whilst others are not? What does it require to be given a free pass?
If Heroes doesn't wish to associate himself with it directly, I wonder if he might consider PMing this info to a trusted confidante and filter it out tangentially.

it is in the UCI's interest to catch some, as scapegoats for all that get a tip off and free pass.

Leukemans and Lotz pay for Boonen's pass.

etc etc

Gregers said:

That's right, Crank. I imagine that the majority of teams, including Astana, would have the means to pay if that is what is required to be 'protected'. So why is Heroes implying that specific teams are looked after whilst others are not? What does it require to be given a free pass?
If Heroes doesn't wish to associate himself with it directly, I wonder if he might consider PMing this info to a trusted confidante and filter it out tangentially.

Here is a guess: Back in the day when the doping issue was starting to be taken more seriously, teams cultivated sources within the testing framework, giving money for their help. This eventually changed from teams seeking out sources to pay to sources seeking teams to pay to sources not being happy with teams that did not pay. Eventually you have a situation of institutionalized corruption.

There is a little problem though. In order to shake down a team, you need someone to deal with. For teams with internal doping programs this is not a problem. For teams where the management has left the riders to fend for themselves there is no one to deal with.

Phonak and Astana were both run by the same outfit, we can assume that they ran the two teams the same way. So even though the Kazakhs have the money to pay, there was no one in the team management to pass it along to the UCI.